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Out of curiosity do you vote in any elections in the US?
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Out of curiosity do you vote in any elections in the US?If you don't fight for what you deserve, you deserve what you get.
We are > Fossil Fuels --- Bill McKibben 350.org -
Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
Kia,
So far I have voted in every election since I became eligible to vote back in the 60s.
Since that time not one person for whom I have voted has ever been elected to office.
Noam Chomsky, whose writings and philosophy I follow, has said that the reality of the United States electoral system is that we get about a minute or two of democracy in this country every few years which is the time it takes to cast a ballot and since this is all the say we have about anything, it should be done regardless of the fact that it is largely a waste of time.
That said, neither he nor I vote for Democrats or Republicans and go with the Greens or any socialist running or any progressive third party candidates.
It is far better to vote for someone you truly want and not get that person than it is to vote for a lesser of two evils candidate like Obama.
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
I would like him to not just explain what he means by the quoted... Also what are his next steps (if any) to change his position. I have to agree with lonrwolf's that by Oxford or Webster's definition, he (jcakes) is a capitalist living willingly in a capitalist country.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am an unwilling participant in the capitalist economy but that does not make me a capitalist and if you had a clue as to what a capitalist is and isn't you'd have known that .
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It is almost akin to an abused spouse staying in a relationship that's going no where for the sake that the abuser is possibly the breadwinner. That's just a thought of fodder...
<span style="font-style: italic">johnnycakes you can leave the vitriol, i respect your opinions as I do any other on this board</span>Comment
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
ok I was just curious. Thanks!If you don't fight for what you deserve, you deserve what you get.
We are > Fossil Fuels --- Bill McKibben 350.orgComment
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
SandiF,
From the Oxford Dictionary website:
capitalist(cap·i·tal·ist)
Syllabification:OnOff
Pronunciation:/&#712;kap&#601;tlist, /
noun
A WEALTHY PERSON WHO USES MONEY TO INVEST IN TRADE AND INDUSTRY FOR PROFIT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF PROFIT.
the creation of the factory system by nineteenth-century capitalists
adjective
PRACTICING, SUPPORTING OR BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF CAPITALISM
I am not wealthy. I have money in pension plans that are invested in trade and industry as does anyone who works or worked in non-profits and has TIAA-CREF retirement plans. In that case we were not permitted to say where the plan invested that money.
SO... if because my pension plan is invested in capitalist enterprises YOU and Wolfie wish to consider me a capitalist then do so but that would be an unwilling capitalist which for those on the right who wish to discredit my position on things makes no difference.
I would then be an anarcho-syndicalist capitalist which is oxymoronic; a contradiction in terms.
Since anarcho-syndicalism is a very obscure term I am providing a link to a site in which Noam Chomsky explains it.
I'm sorry that it cannot be explained in a phrase or two because to do so would not provide an accurate explanation .
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
j-cakes -
You got carried away and responded by giving the dictionary's definition of capitalist/capitalism and explaining your pension plan. I'm not interested in that...
Please re-read my post and respond specifically to the quote....
I'm curious how you see yourself as an 'unwilling participant in a capitalist country'. Is this something you hope to change on a personal level, perhaps relocating to a country that aligns to your political belief, or are you working at some level to bring about a political change in the US that aligns to your beliefs.Comment
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
Too bad he doesn't live up here in Canada. He could vote for the New Democratic Party. I vote for them exclusively.
They actually did really well in our last federal election. Their ultimate goal is to establish socialism in Canada.Comment
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
i'm usually leery of those broad statements "ultimate goals..." how do they plan to accomplish it... what are their specific agendas...whose support are they leveraging... who are they representative of... are the people for it... what benefits are there to the country...
j-cakes can willingly join you in Canada. lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kotch_Foot_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Too bad he doesn't live up here in Canada. He could vote for the New Democratic Party. I vote for them exclusively.
They actually did really well in our last federal election. Their ultimate goal is to establish socialism in Canada.
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Re: Johnnycakes come here a sec
Okay SandiF,
To simplify, I was born and raised in this country. This is where my family, friends, culture are. WERE there a truly communist/anarcho-syndicalist society on the planet then I would live there but there isn't because it is a future state.
So when I became politically and socially conscious back in my early twenties (late sixties/early seventies) I affiliated myself with politically conscious people and groups and did what we could to change the society. The political consciousness of the American people is at the lowest point in my memory and fighting the system amounts to shoveling sand against the tide
By unwilling participant in a capitalist country refers to having to subject myself to the totalitarianism that is working in a capitalist country where the workers have an ever diminishing say in work conditions, pay, standard of living and unwilling in that I had to live under what was and is becoming ever more a totalitarian political system.
A good analogy:
Would you call someone like Solzhenitsyn, the Soviet dissident who was jailed and punished for his opposition views in the Soviet Union a COMMUNIST just because he lived in communist country and although he completely disagreed with the policies of communism ? (of course the Soviet Union was NOT communist but I am using the term for ease of understanding. )
I'd have to say that perhaps back in the 60s it might have barely been possible to change the direction of the country but since then the government propaganda methods have become very sophisticated, the people considerably dumbed down and distracted the media propaganda machine controlled by the same corporations that own the government and things are locked into corporate control of the society.
It will take a major worldwide calamity to get the attention of the masses of people such as I believe we are about to see with the collapse of capitalism and the dire impoverishment of enough people here and abroad to wake them up much as we have seen in the "Arab Spring" uprisings only on a wider basis which will even awaken the moribund political and social consciousness of the people in the United States.
If you think times are rough now, wait another five years as the economy continues to slide downhill in the United States and the economies of the Third World and developing countries bottom out.
We are just now seeing the edge of the discontent and we have yet a long way to go.
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