Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

[Tony_Royal]

Re: Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

Johnny you stated that Jesus had nothing good to say about the rich.Therefore I am correcting you with scriptures to show you that he was NOT against rich people. He was against anyone who trusedt in their riches. There is a difference between the two!

(1) If he is the God who gives you power to get wealth in Deut 8:18. Why would he turn around and talk bad about the same people who he allowed to get rich?

(2)Exodus 30:15 Did God speak bad about the rich?

(3) Joseph of Arimathea a DISCIPLE of Jesus (Math 19:57) was rich. Did Jesus speak bad about him

(3) Acts 4:34---The rich sold their possessions and gave to the church.

Acts 10---------- Cornelius gave to the poor.

If you ANALYZE all the scriptures you quoted and those I listed you will see that<span style="font-weight: bold"> Jesus is placing emphasis on those who TRUST in their riches and not him!</span>

[Tony_Royal]

Re: Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

<span style="font-weight: bold">i hope you are in the 5% that controls about 80% of the wealth.</span>..

I am getting there brother. I did not come to America to waste time!

<span style="font-weight: bold">otherwise you are basically a tea party dude...</span>

SOLID Libertarian

<span style="font-weight: bold">the gap between rich &amp; poor is greater than ever...unemployment is the highest it has been in years...
the middle-class is taking it on the chin..</span>

All this as a result of rich people?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

&quot;He was against anyone who trusedt in their riches. There is a difference between the two!&quot;


And what he meant by &quot;trusting&quot; in their riches was putting their money above following the teachings of Christ which is what 99% of rich people do.

Read the following:

&quot;Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, SELL WHATSOEVER THOU HAST , AND GIVE TO THE POOR and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

This is clearly Jesus telling the rich youth to sell EVERYTHING he had and give it to the poor. NOT donate 10% of what you have, not most of what you have but ALL of what you have and THEN he would subsequently be rewarded in heaven for doing so.

Not doing so will prevent the rich from entering the kingdom of heaven.

The rich people in the United States are sitting on 40% of the nation's wealth while billions live and die in misery.

You can defend them by trying to find Biblical passages that do so but what Jesus taught and what is clearly moral is for anyone with wealth to help the poor.

The wealthy of this country are not rich because of their generous giving natures. Greed is instilled in them as they gather their great wealth in a capitalist system that encourages/forces the accumulation of wealth against the threat of the often likely economic meltdowns that periodically wipe out some rich people.

For this and many other reasons capitalism goes against both the teachings of Jesus and secular common morality.

You might get backing for your position from the mansion-dwelling TV evangelists who afflict the ignorant but I doubt you'd get any legitimate minister or priest to agree with your position vis a vis the relative morality or immorality of the very wealthy.

[lonewolf]

Re: Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Wolfie,
it's good that you looked at both sides to a <span style="font-weight: bold">degree</span></div></div>

Really? To what <span style="font-weight: bold">degree</span> is acceptable? It just bothers the living crap out of you when someone actually tries to look at something objectively. Does it not?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What those statistics didn't show is what percentage of the countries income these top people make and more importantly how much money they are sitting on in investments and savings and property.
This omission is done for the simple reason of making it look like the rich are not as rich as they are and that they are paying far more than is fair.
</div></div>

Maybe or maybe not. The bottom 50 percent of wage earners pay approx. 2.7 percent of federal income taxes, while the top 10 percent of wage earners pay 70 percent of federal taxes. So, that said, what is fair and what is not a fair share?
I'm not taking sides, but only trying to seek out the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know that all the right wing radio hosts always take the position stated in the first article which calls for reducing taxes on the rich to stimulate jobs which is &quot;trickle down&quot; and which has never worked.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Of course you and most people do not read the left perspective and so your views are limited to the right and the middle (liberal) side of things.</span>
</div></div>

Why is it that you are intellectually dishonest and so partisan that you can't be objective and consider other's view points?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what is not said is that while tens of millions don't have enough money, <span style="font-weight: bold">these rich who pay all those taxes still have more money than they will ever need and can actually afford to pay a lot more </span></div></div>

Maybe the government needs to spend a <span style="font-weight: bold">lot less</span>? Why put any burden on anyone? What is someone's fair share?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you're <span style="font-weight: bold">moral</span> or follow the teachings of Christ and most religions </div></div>

Again, really? Why is it that your liberal/communist version of morality always means others must capitulate to your viewpoint? Or their morality is in question.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Do the rich pay enough taxes? Yes or NO?

&quot;Again, really? Why is it that your liberal/communist version of morality always means others must capitulate to your viewpoint?&quot;


Wolfie,
The central feature of socialism and communism is making sure that people have what they need for a decent life.
The central tenet of capitalism is to gather as much wealth as you can and not care about what happens to those who can't make enough money to live on.

You do not have to go any further to see which side moral, which is immoral.





&quot;Or their morality is in question.Maybe the government needs to spend a lot less? Why put any burden on anyone? &quot;


Wolfie,
Our elected officials determine what money is to be spent and how that money is to be raised.
Since the 14th amendment says that we must pay for what we have spent, we have to raise the money to do that.
If the government then cuts payments for medicare, social security and the other payments to the poor who are poor because of the disproportionate way the wealth of the country is distributed upwards to the rich and the wealthy do not pay their fair share, it is immoral.

How can cutting the income and benefits of someone making less than $20,000 per year on SSI while leaving billionaires piles of unused money be considered fair or moral?

There has been a trillion dollar transfer of wealth from the poor and working people to the very rich since Reagan.
The rich have profited as never before and now they refuse to kick back some of that wealth that this country has made possible for them to amass.
Selfish, immoral, unfair, uncaring.




&quot;What is someone's fair share?Really? To what degree is acceptable? &quot;


Wolfie,

When every child is provided for , has a decent home, neighborhood, school, opportunities. When every working person earns a living wage. That is what is acceptable and NOT how many millions anyone is allowed to sit on while others go without the basics of life.

THis is the richest country on Earth and there is enough wealth to go around; to provide that decent life for all.
Look at the civilized Scandinavian countries. They have nothing like the poverty we have here, nothing like the crime we have here because they spread the wealth around. They HAVE millionaires but they just do not allow the very rich to keep so much money that huge numbers of their people go without.
Having large numbers of poor just kicks the shiite out of a society for a great number of reasons and they are smart enough to recognize this while we have become stupid enough to come to believe that having a relative handful of incredibly rich people and millions upon millions of poor can work.
It's both illogical and immoral.

&quot;It just bothers the living crap out of you when someone actually tries to look at something objectively. Does it not?&quot;

Wolfie,
Conservatives do not look at things objectively. They are very subjective in how they operate.
Being objective would have the rich paying not only the 35% they do not pay in taxes (they actually pay about 17%) but quite a bit more.
In Denmark they pay about 50%.



&quot;Maybe or maybe not. The bottom 50 percent of wage earners pay approx. 2.7 percent of federal income taxes, while the top 10 percent of wage earners pay 70 percent of federal taxes. So, that said, what is fair and what is not a fair share?
I'm not taking sides, but only trying to seek out the truth&quot;


Wolfie, If someone makes $45,000.oo a year, that just gets them by. If they pay $1500.00 in taxes it is a burden.

If someone else makes $10,000,000.00 that same year AND is already sitting on tens of millions in money and property made previously, they can easily pay 50% of that $10,000,000.00 and not suffer at all. They will have no effect on their lifestyle.
They have the good luck and skills to make all that money. They should thank their lucky stars and willingly kick in to help out the country which enabled them to become filthy rich BUT that is not the way of capitalism, of the rich.
They are immoral and they run the country to suit their ends.
They do not care about the poor, the environment, the planet.
They care only for getting as much money as fast as possible regardless of what it does to the society.

How many times have you heard someone say that after they make enough money, they'll quit the rat race and become a good person?
But doing what they must do to get all the money they need to do that shapes them twists them into people who care only for wealth and that thought of quitting greed just never comes to fruition.t
Greed and immorality wins every time and we have the situation in the country that we have.


&quot;Why is it that you are intellectually dishonest and so partisan that you can't be objective and consider other's view points?&quot;

Wolfie,
I'll repeat this because you love it when I repeat myself .
The truth has a left bias.
I read, watch and listen to more sources on the right for my information than I do sources on the left.
This is true because there are many more media outlets that are right wing (I consider what you call middle to be right as well) than there are left sources because the country is corporately owned and the media obviously reflect that reality.

I can watch the corporate news on a given subject on a dozens different outlets and then go to the few left sites I rely upon and have those dozen stories (often quite the same) intellectually refuted with very factual information.

Consider this:
The median literacy level for the country is the 9th grade.
Corporate news and programming by necessity not only has to be dumbed down to below that level but has to be made entertaining as well or that dumbed-down audience will not watch that news program, will not see the commercials that sponsor that program, will not buy the products, will not register on the Nielssen ratings and the show dies.

If you ever read anything at ZNET or TomDispatch, you will not see them pandering to those who are incapable of understanding difficult concepts or big words and they of course have a left agenda and make it a big point to demonstrate factually, intellectually just what a crock of shiite the corporate/right news media is.

SO....you cannot accuse me of not being objective when your thinking on the economy, the ills of the society, your concepts of morality came from a totally immoral and dumbed-down corporate media which is never objective on economic, military, moral matters.


Wolfie,
You're a member of the working class. It's high time you recognized that fact and stopped taking the side of the wealthy who are NOT your friends.
The neighborhood problems that you see in Baltimore that are due to poverty and which lower YOUR standard of living do not exist in Denmark, Norway because those countries while allowing people to become rich, do not allow the rich to run the country for their benefit alone.

It was the socialist and communists in the trade unions that gave us the weekend, ended child labor, established the 40 hour work week, health care benefits, decent working conditions.
It most definitely was not the rich owners of the corporations who gave us those things but rather it was they who fought against those things and who are now destroying the unions and through corporate media control have most people thinking that getting rid of unions is a good thing.

Which side are you on?