.. papishow..

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">carefull of uprisings. easy and popular to say, but people gotta live with the people who are placed in power afterwards..
check Egypt..
seems they need a uprising to fix the leadersihip as a result of the last uprising..
</div></div>

Sometimes the evil you know is better than new evil. </div></div>


Magix,
Then the obvious thing to do is throw out the evil people and bring in moral, principled people; good people.
This would mean a new political party with none of the present day politicians allowed in.

[Magician]

Re: .. papishow..

I don't think a 3rd party will solve anything.

First the parliamentary government system needs to be replaced as it's not well suited for the country.

Second the ministers need to be experts in their field. How can someone with no background and experience deal with agriculture in one reshuffle, mining in another and transport in another. Ministers should come form the field and not bredrin from the party.

This, the Jamaican people need to be de-polarised. Years of orange and green have made the system disfunctional. And this is the biggest challange.

Your 3rd party will get no votes. Even people who believe in it will not vote for it because they know it will not win.

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think a 3rd party will solve anything.

First the parliamentary government system needs to be replaced as it's not well suited for the country.

Second the ministers need to be experts in their field. How can someone with no background and experience deal with agriculture in one reshuffle, mining in another and transport in another. Ministers should come form the field and not bredrin from the party.

This, the Jamaican people need to be de-polarised. Years of orange and green have made the system disfunctional. And this is the biggest challange.

Your 3rd party will get no votes. Even people who believe in it will not vote for it because they know it will not win. </div></div>


Magix,
Back around 1954 the Cuban people created a third party called the Cuban Revolution.
They cast bullets, not ballots and won.
I am not calling for a revolution in Jamaica because Jamaicans are not Cubans.

What I am saying is that there is no answer to Jamaica's problems in the twin parties you now have.

I think KFM has it right when he says that Jamaica is so corrupt that if Jesus Christ himself were heading the government, HE'd be on the take.

[Magician]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magix,
Back around 1954 the Cuban people created a third party called the Cuban Revolution.
They cast bullets, not ballots and won.
</div></div>

And look where it got them 50+ years later.
Replacing one crap system with another crap system won't make a difference.

[X]

Re: .. papishow..

check whats happening in the post Arabian revolution world..
do people really think a revolution to replace one set of deceivers with another set of deceivers will fix Jamaica?

do people really think that parasites like the so called klansman organization exist in a vacuum?

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magix,
Back around 1954 the Cuban people created a third party called the Cuban Revolution.
They cast bullets, not ballots and won.
</div></div>

And look where it got them 50+ years later.
Replacing one crap system with another crap system won't make a difference.

</div></div>


Magix,

There are no homeless in Cuba,.
There are no criminal gangs in Cuba.
Cuba has the lowest crime rate in the hemisphere. You can walk through the streets of downtown Havana at midnight and not fear. Try THAT in the rough parts of Kingston
Cuba has better health care than Jamaica
Cuba has better and free education pre-schol to graduate school than Jamaica.
There is no malnutrition in Cuba.
Their government is far less corrupt and no less democratic than the twin party farce in Jamaica.
Some 30 thousand Cubans out of 11 million people leave the country yearly for better economic chances.
Some 75 thousand Jamaicans out of 3 million people leave the country yearly for better economic chances .

(Cuba is also being attacked since 1960 or so by the United States which Jamaica is not)

How many more Jamaicans will die for no reason from the ever increasing lawlessness caused by the ever increasing poverty and despair?
How many will have to die before Jamaicans learn how and what needs changing ?
H

Where are TODAY'S Jamaican national heroes and great thinkers ?

[Magician]

Re: .. papishow..

I've been to Cuba and what you say is all correct.
While there is not one homeless person there on the street, the majority are jus making it. And that is all you can look forward to in life, is jus a hair above the poverty line. You can go to school free and become a top doctor, and then come back to yuh bruk down apartment with a leaking roof which you are sharing with 3 other generations of your family.

Like mi seh earlier, there are many ways to run a country and none of them are without faults.

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been to Cuba and what you say is all correct.
While there is not one homeless person there on the street, the majority are jus making it. And that is all you can look forward to in life, is jus a hair above the poverty line. You can go to school free and become a top doctor, and then come back to yuh bruk down apartment with a leaking roof which you are sharing with 3 other generations of your family.

Like mi seh earlier, there are many ways to run a country and none of them are without faults. </div></div>


Thank you for your measured response.
I agree that Cuba is far from perfect but on the face of it they are a lot closer to creating a far better society than are just about any Third World country, many Developing Nations.
If and when the United States calls off its economic war against Cuban socialism, I suspect we'll see enormous changes for a much better Cuba.

Jamaica is trapped between growing economic disparity, a failing economy, a collapsing societal structure and a quiescent population who seem resigned to an ever-diminishing standard of living.

I expect things to get steadily worse in Jamaica and steadily better in Cuba even with the U.S embargo there. (reasons: the Cuban oil fields soon coming on line, the recent easing on freedoms of the press and speech and the recent Party Congress at which many reforms were introduced if not yet set into practice.)

[Magician]

Re: .. papishow..

Cuba definitely has better prospects than Jamaica in the long term. Their society will flourish when given a chance. There is always a danger of moving too quickly or in the wrong direction and leaving the majority on the sidelines of progress. But if the Castros are smart, and hand off so someone who can pull this transformation off, Cuba will be the most successful country in the Caribbean with their highly educated people, rich natural resources, and perfect location for trade with the US.

Jamaica on the otter hand is heading in the wrong direction. What's worse, steps are not being taken to halt or reverse the slide.

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

Mmagix,
While I agree with most of your post, this:
&quot;There is always a danger of moving too quickly or in the wrong direction and leaving the majority on the sidelines of progress&quot;
I find it a remote possibility given that a socialist society is based on not leaving anyone behind, to lift the entire society.
Something like what you suggest as a possibility makes more sense in a country like China and the Soviets who went FROM a (corrupted) socialist system TO an every-man-for-himself capitalist system. Cubans are very proud and highly appreciative of the benefits they have received under socialism. What they want and ned is an expansion of democracy: rule from the bottom up and less rule from the top.
They have the framework but the leadership is hesitant to open up perhaps (I believe) because of what the United States will do if the U.S is allowed to buy off enough people to undermine the socialist revolution .

[Magician]

Re: .. papishow..

I don't see how you can &quot;lift up&quot; everybody and not leave everyone behind.
That economic model is not sustainable and would take a very long time to build up.

If it was that easy, every nation would be doing it.

[jah_yout]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cuba definitely has better prospects than Jamaica in the long term. Their society will flourish when given a chance. There is always a danger of moving too quickly or in the wrong direction and leaving the majority on the sidelines of progress. But if the Castros are smart, and hand off so someone who can pull this transformation off, Cuba will be the most successful country in the Caribbean with their highly educated people, rich natural resources, and perfect location for trade with the US.

Jamaica on the otter hand is heading in the wrong direction. What's worse, steps are not being taken to halt or reverse the slide. </div></div>


<span style="font-size: 11pt">cuba is the only country in the caribbean that can even remotely be considered independent...
could this be why the US is squeezing them under this barbaric embargo?
i wonder if criminals in cuba are beheading residents to intimidate </span>

[johnnycakes]

Re: .. papishow..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see how you can &quot;lift up&quot; everybody and not leave everyone behind.
That economic model is not sustainable and would take a very long time to build up.

If it was that easy, every nation would be doing it. </div></div>


magix,
EVERY Cuban citizen has equal educational opportunities.
EVERY Cuban citizen receives excellent health care.
EVERY Cuban citizen enjoys a nearly crime free environment.
EVERY Cuban citizen has work
EVERY Cuban citizen has a home.

And no, every other Third World nation cannot do this because every other Third World nation that has tried it was slapped down, crushed by the United States.

It is not &quot;that easy&quot; to have to fight off the United States and suffer for it for 50 years and still survive)

(read &quot;Killing Hope&quot; or visit the website for a list of some 50 countries that have been interfered with by the United States; just read the introduction to &quot;Killing Hope&quot; and look at the index of countries. Some you will know about, others like Italy and Greece just after WWII you might not know about but the list quite adequately makes my case.