Jamaica and homosexuality

[franksterr]

*Maybe this question has been ask recently, if so bear with me been away for a bit*

My significant other just return from yard and sey - cannot believe it the whole attitude of Jamaicans towards homosexuality has changed.
While up in Manor park shopping a openly gay man in lipstick and all was busy doing his thing with no fear or recriminations from onlookers.

Whilst traveling in New Kingston and Cross de waters they could be seen at nights openly competing with female prostitutes for "johns"

No Openly lesbian women were seen or discernible, wonder why this is?

Has Jamaican society change so quick from the most homophobic in the western hemisphere if not the world to a tolerant one overnight?

Has any one else found this to be true?





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Click to reveal.. <input type="button" class="form-button" value="Show me!" onclick="toggle_spoiler(this, 'Yikes, my eyes!', 'Show me!')" /></div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div style="display: none;"><span style="text-decoration: line-through">Namyttabaemllacelohssaemosteb </span></div></div></div>- oops

[Suesumba]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

the dancehall artistes have done a great job *promoting* homosexuality through reverse psychology

[franksterr]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

A local who neva lef tell me is the so call badman dem aka &quot;dons&quot; Zekes in particular who led the change
They took up the Roman practice of buggering those who fell in disfavor or forcing the men to perform oral sex on them as a way of emasculating them.

[Derek]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

The relaxing of attitudes was bound to happen eventually...

[mountaingal]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

the tolerance to homosexuals is not new. it was the dancehall driven homophobia that was new.

[Suesumba]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

while in other news

[blugiant]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*Maybe this question has been ask recently, if so bear with me been away for a bit*

My significant other just return from yard and sey - cannot believe it the whole attitude of Jamaicans towards homosexuality has changed.
While up in Manor park shopping a openly gay man in lipstick and all was busy doing his thing with no fear or recriminations from onlookers.

Whilst traveling in New Kingston and Cross de waters they could be seen at nights openly competing with female prostitutes for &quot;johns&quot;

No Openly lesbian women were seen or discernible, wonder why this is?

Has Jamaican society change so quick from the most homophobic in the western hemisphere if not the world to a tolerant one overnight?

Has any one else found this to be true?





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Click to reveal.. <input type="button" class="form-button" value="Show me!" onclick="toggle_spoiler(this, 'Yikes, my eyes!', 'Show me!')" /></div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div style="display: none;"><span style="text-decoration: line-through">Namyttabaemllacelohssaemosteb </span></div></div></div>- oops </div></div>

sah da realitee iss dat inn da uptown area homosexuality is ann awlways was tolerated. yu see sum poor yuths bow fe ride bmw. manee aff dem farreen church send dem funnee ministers ann funnee church peeps fee prey pon impoverished blakk bwoys. boom bye bye buju wrote aftah a bigg man molested a blakk yuths. so de fallacee dat jamaica iss natt tallerant aff funnee peeps natt accurate. itt onlee wen dem uptown ann farreen peeps try fe bring dat inna da ghetto dat communitee tandards ar more likelee fee bee applied.

y yu tink dem neva release dem peta queens tapes widd summ well known funnee politrixxstahs ann bigg peen pon itt. ja ave quite a few funnee musicians

a latt aff bigg peeps inn ja pushinn homosexualitee

da gleaner ann da observer actuallee luv fe bigg upp homosexualitee

yu neva pay attenshans to sum aff dem fiyah pon homosexualitee wen mii ann sum peeps pon yah use fe chow att sum aff ja well know funnee peeps

awl dat fe sey dat farren peeps image aff ja as a homophobic place iss natt accurate cah manee yawdee beeleeve inn loweinn slackness fe gawn

den yu ave sum moral jamaicans wey doan bow to slackness dat y itt fiyah ann more fiyah pon homosexualitee

[blugiant]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SueSumba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the dancehall artistes have done a great job *promoting* homosexuality through reverse psychology </div></div>

diss mekk mii laff

funnee man molested poor blakk yuth ann buju made boom bye bye ann yu a try fe sey dat a great way aff promotinn homosexuality troo reverse psychology

wat wood yu sey bout seaga cawlinn pj funnee fe try fe gitt votes ar bruce seyinn noo funnee man inn imm cabinet

y doan yu chatt bout da late prof rex use ja dance fe push homosexualitee. mii guess wen rex chat bout men inn adder countrees luv fe look att ja male dancers imm wass natt pushinn homosexuality troo direct psychology

[blugiant]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the tolerance to homosexuals is not new. it was the dancehall driven homophobia that was new. </div></div>

yu sumwat carrect butt mii dissagree widd yu bout dancehall driven homophobia. cah certain dancehall artists bunn fiyah pon homosexualitee doan mean dat dancehall iss homophobic. reggae music ann dancehall ave a religious base ann dancehall artists bunninn fiyah pon homosexualitee iss chantinn down babylon slackness dat iss evident inn jamaica religious heritage

dose uptown peeps dat ar less religious ann more secular ar de yaawdees dat ar tollerant aff homosexualitee while downtown peeps dat ar more religious ar less tallerant aff homosexualitee

[Wendy]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SueSumba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the dancehall artistes have done a great job *promoting* homosexuality through reverse psychology </div></div>

Interesting view point

Frankster .. I have to admit I was in awe when I landed in JA years ago and an openly flamboyant gay guy was at the gates loading taxis. Now if I saw this in the US, I would walk past it an no big deal ..but since I was in Jamaica .. mi was looking lef to right to see what was everyone's reaction. No one cared and moved along an went about their business. I remember nodding my head and whispering <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Wow&quot; </span>


Anyway, gays still get a fight in the &quot;religious&quot; community though. They continue to believe that their sins are <span style="font-style: italic">better </span>than the sins of gays

[blugiant]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

mii saw de writer below pon wan show disscussinn religion ann mii a wander iff a batman

Ian Boyne, Contributor

It's an indication of our backwardness, appalling intolerance and bigotry that an ad calling for &quot;unconditional love&quot; of our homosexual family members and friends is unlikely to be shown on local television because the stations are just too scared to show leadership in this area.

The decision-makers there know better, but they also know Jamaica, and they know the backlash and outrage that would overwhelm them if they dare transgress in this area. It's profit over any principle of pluralism, and concern for ratings over reason. I understand their dilemma. I am taking daredevil risks with my own popularity and 'ratings' for writing this column. It takes courage to write any such lead in a Jamaican newspaper, for it is bound to generate rumours that I myself am gay, bisexual or at least uncertain about my own sexuality.

For in the thinking (I need a better word!) of large numbers of Jamaicans, for me to even dare to suggest that an ad 'soft' on homosexuals should come on television in this Christian, God-blessed country must be an indication of a perverted, sin-sick and debased mind. Homosexuality, I have always maintained, is not a subject that can be rationally discussed in Jamaica, for even among well-schooled people, emotions completely drown any semblance of reason.

Palpable fear

The one time I could ever interview some gay people on 'Religious Hardtalk', they had to be from overseas, and I had to say several times during the show, &quot;Don't bother to come down here at TVJ, for this show is taped and the guests are already back home!&quot; For it would be life-threatening for them to stay in the island for the luxury of watching the show here, as I could not guarantee their safety to the airport. (After all, doomsday preacher Michael Lewis had to wear disguises on the streets of Jamaica before he left for the United States (US), and his sin was just proclaiming passionately that Jesus would return on May 21!)

Last Sunday, the Observer, in a page-one story, 'Gay TV advert angers clerics', reported the difficulty gays and non-gay civil libertarians had been having in getting a public service announcement carried even after a public launch involving US Ambassador Pamela Bridgewater and others from the international community.

It is to our shame that Jamaican gay people cannot come on television, show their faces, debate their homosexuality with heterosexuals, go back home in peace and to their jobs and live normal lives the next day. If we lay claim to being a pluralistic, democratic society and not an autocracy like Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Burma, Pakistan, Nepal, Afghanistan, gay people should be free to express their views without fear of violence, harassment or victimisation.

But what about the view that homosexuality is against Jamaican law and, therefore, it would be improper to show such blatant disrespect for Jamaican law by parading gay people on air, or showing an ad effectively calling for a softening of attitudes to these persons engaging in lawbreaking? First, it is not homosexuality that is illegal, but buggery or anal sex. Lesbians cannot be punished under our buggery laws.

Hypocrisy regarding lesbians

So, from a Christian point of view, Jamaican law does not really reflect, absolutely, the biblical prohibition of same-sex intimacy. It leaves out lesbians, and my information is that lesbianism is growing by leaps and bounds in Jamaica and is reportedly prominent in our high schools - unfortunately, in my view.

And why, I ask our passionate anti-gay men, are they generally so soft on lesbians and don't treat them and despise them the same way they despise gay men? If you are talking about morality - and especially biblical morality - you have to be consistent. If it's a cultural matter now - and there are some interesting sociological theories on how male homosexuality offends our notion of masculinity - well, stop citing morality and the Bible. (Ever notice how these fornicating, adulterous 'old dawg' men like to rush for their King James Version of the Bible in condemning homosexuality? Why don't they apply that same Bible to themselves?)

So the argument about 'not promoting something which is illegal' does not hold water. A homosexual man can avoid buggery but is still, in the biblical and scientific definition, gay. (Those who know their Bible know it condemns sexual lust, not just physical penetration outside of man-woman marriage.) So then, would you be okay with homosexual men who are not engaging in buggery coming on television to be interviewed? No, you would not, and it has nothing to do with law - it just has to do with prejudice and emotion.

Besides, isn't ganja smoking against our law? Do we, as journalists, interview people on television who openly admit to smoking ganja and hence to breaking the law? Do the decision-makers at our television stations not carry artistes who smoke ganja? Some are even carried smoking weed and puffing the smoke in Babylon's face!

There's another point. There have been many laws which have been and are unjust and immoral. Apartheid was law in South Africa. It was unjust and immoral. Slavery was legal in many societies. So was discrimination against women. (This continues in some societies today.) It was once illegal to sell liquor, to criticise the king and other public officials (the sedition law). Interracial marriage was illegal in some places, and so was divorce.

Free speech

The fact that something is illegal should not prevent lobbyists in a democratic society from speaking out for change. I am a free-speech libertarian, and here I am going to part company with perhaps most gay people who, if they had their way, would become the new oppressors and opponents of free speech. There are gay people who believe religious people should not have the right to call homosexuality an abomination and an evil which will be punished with everlasting hellfire. Though I don't believe in everlasting hellfire, I believe preachers must have the right to say that homosexuals will burn in hell forever if they don't repent of their sin of homosexuality.

Homosexuals and other opponents of free speech will call that 'hate language' and would seek to ban it, calling attention to the 'emotional hurt' and 'pain' such language causes to people. And lest you think I am inconsistent, I also believe racists should have the right to publicise their racist views too. The Ku Klux Klan should have the right to promulgate their racism, and the Aryan Brotherhood and racist Christian Identity movement should be free to publish and broadcast their sick racist views to whomever would listen. To quote that memorable phrase representative of free-speech philosophy, the answer to hate speech is 'more, better speech', not censorship and repression.

I detest how the gay lobby has manipulated language to classify any opposition to homosexuality as 'homophobia'. That's absolute nonsense. There are rational, sophisticated people who believe homosexuality is morally wrong and philosophically and theologically unjustifiable. (As much as arrogant gays find that hard to believe). I, personally, believe that if the Bible is read as authoritative, and if any plenary inspiration is ascribed to it, you cannot come away with any justification whatsoever for homosexual conduct.

In my considered opinion, the Bible condemns homosexuality and homosexual practice. I believe it is a fruitless attempt to try to use the Bible to show that God has no problem with homosexuality. I have read the finest exponents of pro-homosexual biblical exegesis and hermeneutics and I find them utterly unconvincing. For anyone who wants a thorough and comprehensive refutation of any attempt to harmonise the Bible with homosexuality, I recommend Robert Gagnon's masterpiece, The Bible and Homosexual Practice', as well as his indescribably devastating anti-gay hermeneutics website.

Tolerance isn't endorsement

Gay people need to learn that tolerance does not mean endorsement. Many of them seem to believe that those of us who are free-speech and civil-rights libertarians are still 'victims of prejudice' because we still see homosexual practice as sinful and against the will of God. I am prepared to debate with any homosexual on philosophical and theological grounds to show why I reject homosexual practice. I find most of their arguments justifying homosexual behaviour as gnawingly simplistic and a violation of a cardinal principle in philosophy: You can't derive 'ought from is'. The fact that you have these desires, impulses and drives doesn't mean that they should be satisfied. In other words, because something is natural does not mean it is necessarily moral.

I recommend to my gay friends evolutionary psychologist and atheist, Professor Steve Stewart-Williams', Darwin, God and the Meaning of Life: How Evolutionary Theory Undermines Everything You Thought You Knew. It's priceless. See, especially, the chapter 'Remaking Morality', which notes: &quot;Several of the alleged ethical implications we've considered so far rest on a hidden assumption: The idea that if something is natural, it must be good.&quot;

We need to embed in this society what the philosopher John Locke called &quot;toleration&quot;. We need a pluralistic democracy, not just an electoral democracy such as we have. I would describe what we have as an illiberal democracy. Our tribalism affects our politics, our sociology, our religion - everything. (I mean, we had one man calling for the resignation of our governor general because, as a conscientious Seventh-day Adventist, he felt bound, or so we surmise, to be absent from Independence ceremonies. In this bigoted, intolerant and illiberal society, diversity and difference must be punished and banished).

Some of us will have to step out of that cocoon and show some leadership at some point. The Gleaner has already called for the decriminalisation of homosexuality. We might not agree with the paper, but we must concede it is showing guts in this intolerant society, and a courage that elude its counterparts in electronic media. But then the masses watch far more than they would care to read.

We must reach a point in this country where we can discuss homosexuality rationally; though perhaps not in my lifetime. Gay people, though, must understand that &quot;unconditional love&quot; does not mean unconditional acceptance of their sexuality. That's another form of bigotry.


.

[jah_yout]

Re: Jamaica and homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The relaxing of attitudes was bound to happen eventually...


</div></div>

i wonder why it took this long...

jamaica has fallen in line with worship of the american ideal from long time...

some dancehall artists are attempting to hold on to what they percieve as their own culture rather than submit to foreign values