herman cain da perfect racist?

[RichD]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We’re not sure how Cain calculates that this family now pays $10,000 in taxes, but the reliable Tax Foundation calculator comes up with a much more reasonable figure: a total tax bill of $3,515 — $690 in federal income taxes and $2,825 in payroll taxes. (The family gets a big income-tax savings from the child tax credit, which Cain would eliminate.)

So, in other words, under Cain’s plan, this family would instantly pay $1,000 more in income taxes. They would also pay additional sales taxes, probably more than $3,000, on their purchases. It’s unclear how the business tax would affect the family’s tax bill but it appears this theoretical family would get no tax cut but instead a 100 percent tax increase. </div></div>

Yes, that's good. It put's more of a personal responsibility on those that put more of a burden on the system. Example: Why should a family with four children receive more tax breaks than someone with three or two or one, or for that matter, no children?
If you want kids, fine, pay for them. It's not fair that the rest of society be burdened by your wants and needs. The system in place today is backwards. </div></div>

are you arguing for higher taxes?

[H_O]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can yuh imagine payin an additional 9% Federal sales tax on say, your existing 6% State sales tax (15%)?
Oh wait ah minute............ Unnu guys do wid unnu HST?

What is dat 13%, which is ah saving from di previous GST and PST 14.5%?


Chicago sales tax ah wha now, like 10.25%, an NYC boout 8.9%? Now him waa add 9% tuh dat!
</div></div>

yes the federal sales tax here is 5% ..down form 7% combined now is 13%

what him not talking about is the range of goods and services that it will cover. </div></div>thats the problem in America. there tax complainers and want all the perks to go with it, all the while allowing corporate America all the breaks. then use the same tax payer dollars to bail them out and THEn movee there operations to Mexico or Bangladesh

[Cultcha]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H_O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can yuh imagine payin an additional 9% Federal sales tax on say, your existing 6% State sales tax (15%)?
Oh wait ah minute............ Unnu guys do wid unnu HST?

What is dat 13%, which is ah saving from di previous GST and PST 14.5%?


Chicago sales tax ah wha now, like 10.25%, an NYC boout 8.9%? Now him waa add 9% tuh dat!
</div></div>

yes the federal sales tax here is 5% ..down form 7% combined now is 13%

what him not talking about is the range of goods and services that it will cover. </div></div>thats the problem in America. there tax complainers and want all the perks to go with it, <span style="font-weight: bold">all the while allowing corporate America all the breaks. then use the same tax payer dollars to bail them out and THEn movee there operations to Mexico or Bangladesh</span> </div></div>

Quite true!

And even the large corporations that do stay put in the States outsource much of their work overseas. They receive the tax breaks but give little back in the way of providing much needed jobs.

[H_O]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

you can pay taxes if you dont have good jobs. its full circle.

[lonewolf]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you arguing for higher taxes? </div></div>

Rich, no, of course not. You evidently don't understand taxes in the US.
The more chuldren you have, the more deductions you receive on a federal and state level, which means you get back more money in your refund check.
On a state or local jurisdiction level, schools amount for over half of expenditures.
In other words, families put the biggest load on the system, and pay the least amont of taxes. A single person or maried couple with no children, pays more money in taxes than people with children. Understand? This is not a fair system. A more just system is needed.

[lonewolf]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thats the problem in America. there tax complainers and want all the perks to go with it, <span style="font-weight: bold">all the while allowing corporate America all the breaks</span>. then use the same tax payer dollars to bail them out and THEn movee there operations to Mexico or Bangladesh </div></div>

That's simply not true. The US corporate tax rate is at 35 percent, and is the second-highest in the world. 999 is a flat tax, The reality is that a flat tax does away with tax loop holes that fat cats and corporations use to cheat the system.

Fact is that capitalism follows cheap labor and cheaper taxes, and that is why jobs head over seas.

[Cultcha]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you arguing for higher taxes? </div></div>

Rich, no, of course not. You evidently don't understand taxes in the US.
The more chuldren you have, the more deductions you receive on a federal and state level, which means you get back more money in your refund check.
On a state or local jurisdiction level, schools amount for over half of expenditures.
In other words, families put the biggest load on the system, and pay the least amont of taxes. A single person or maried couple with no children, pays more money in taxes than people with children. Understand? This is not a fair system. A more just system is needed. </div></div>

We have the same system up here in Canada. I agree with you lonrwolf, if you want kids then it should be your responsibility to pay for them. Why do I get stuck with the bill?

[j-kid]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?



Let's Get Real About 9-9-9

Posted: 10/17/11 09:38 AM ET

Herman Cain is now considered a front-runner in the race for the Republican nomination. Mr. Cain's meteoric rise in the polls has been driven by his proposed 9-9-9 tax plan, which would scrap the current tax code in favor of a 9% flat tax on personal income, sales, and &quot;business income.&quot; Mr. Cain is to be commended for trying to drastically reform the tax code, but his plan presents an unending list of problems.

Here is a small sampling:

The Misleading Business Tax

First of all, Mr. Cain's presentation of his plan is misleading. His &quot;business income tax&quot; is nothing like the current corporate tax.

Here is a simple way to prove that the two tax systems would be completely different: Currently, the corporate tax code raises about $300 billion per year with a 35% tax rate (although because of various deductions, the effective tax rate is closer to 23%). Mr. Cain estimates that his 9% business tax would raise $862 billion per year. If Mr. Cain's plan were a corporate tax, corporate profits would have to increase by a factor of six to make these numbers line up. Clearly, Mr. Cain's business tax is not a corporate tax as we know it.

So what is his business tax? Many others have looked at what few details exist of Mr. Cain's plan, and they have come to the conclusion that it resembles a value-added tax, or VAT--which is essentially a sales tax. In other words, Mr. Cain's plan would really involve a 9% personal income tax and an 18% (9% + 9%) sales tax.

Revenue Estimates

The US had a $1.3 trillion deficit this fiscal year. Affordable tax reform must at least be revenue neutral. Mr. Cain has stated that his plan meets that criterion, but this is a very dubious claim: An analysis by Bloomberg says that Mr. Cain's plan would fall short by $200 billion per year.

But in reality, both Mr. Cain's and Bloomberg's analyses are unreliable because of the guesswork involved in creating these estimates. When Mr. Cain was asked why Bloomberg came up with different numbers than he did, he said it was because &quot;they start with assumptions that we don't make.&quot;

This is the precisely the point.

Both Mr. Cain and Bloomberg were presumably using a dynamic model, in which they assume that the lower tax rates will increase economic growth, and thus, tax revenue. But the precise quantitative relationship between tax structure and economic growth is unknowable, especially for such a radical departure from the current tax code. By altering your starting assumptions, you could come up a broad range of revenue estimates. To put it simply, we have no idea how much Mr. Cain's tax plan would raise.

Whittling Away at the Base

One thing that we do know is that the simple 9-9-9 plan would not stay so simple. Already, Mr. Cain's plan will allow deductions for charitable contributions--what's to prevent Congress from adding deductions for retirement savings, or health insurance, or any other tax benefit?

Similarly, Mr. Cain has exempted used items from the sales tax. I predict similar exemptions would be extended to food and clothing.

Mr. Cain's plan would soon fall prey to the same lobbying that created our current convoluted tax code. In this way, the political realities of broadening the base make revenue neutrality even more difficult to achieve.

Making the poor pay

The previous problems--the misleading business tax, the unreliable revenue estimates, and inevitable hacking away of the tax base--are minor inconveniences compared with Mr. Cain's proposed transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest.

Right now, the United States has a (mostly) progressive tax system: in general, higher-income earners pay more in taxes than lower-income earners. By only having flat rates of 9%, Mr. Cain immediately destroys any progressivity in the tax code.

But the reality is worse than that:

Most poor and middle-class workers earn their income through wages, which would then be taxed at 9%. Wealthier people also earn a significant portion of their income as capital gains, which Mr. Cain would not tax at all. Furthermore, the poor tend to consume what they earn immediately, paying Mr. Cain's sales and VAT taxes immediately. While the rich will eventually consume most of what they earn, some of it will be left to their estates at their death, which would, again, not be taxed.

In other words, 9-9-9 would invert the tax code. Instead of the wealthy bearing the greatest share of taxes, the poor and middle-class would have the highest tax burden.

This country needs a serious discussion about the tax code. I am thankful that Mr. Cain has initiated this discussion, but 9-9-9 is not the solution we need. Source:

[lonewolf]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

Milo, I did not realize the system in Canada was like the US. Yeah, I feel your pain.
On another note, my wife went back to school to become a registered nurse.
The community college that she attended for her RN/degree, the cost total, by the time the pre-requisite courses were completed, and than two years of nursing courses cost us in the range of $10,000 US dollars? There were unwed mothers in the same course that received their education FOR NOTHING! THEY PAID NOTHING!

WE REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR! How is it that those of us that do all the right things in life get the bills of the people that do all the wrong things? Where is personal responsiblity?.....I'm ranting, I know, Ok, I feel better know. Thanks for listening.

[Cultcha]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Milo, I did not realize the system in Canada was like the US. Yeah, I feel your pain.
On another note, my wife went back to school to become a registered nurse.
The community college that she attended for her RN/degree, the cost total, by the time the pre-requisite courses were completed, and than two years of nursing courses cost us in the range of $10,000 US dollars? There were unwed mothers in the same course that received their education FOR NOTHING! THEY PAID NOTHING!

WE REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR! How is it that those of us that do all the right things in life get the bills of the people that do all the wrong things? Where is personal responsiblity?.....I'm ranting, I know, Ok, I feel better know. Thanks for listening.

</div></div>

Not sure how you prison system works down there but up here there are bursary programs available to prisoners to earn university and college degrees. Yup, you guest right, at taxpayers expense.

[j-kid]

Re: herman cain da perfect racist?

Milo, same thing in USA. Free education, medical, etc.