Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

[Morwen Edhelwen]

"Oh Cudelia Brown, wha mek yu head so red
Oh Cudelia Brown, wha mek yu head so red?
Yu siddung eena di sunshine wid nuttin' 'pon yu head,

On a moonshine night, on a moonshine night,
I meet Missa Ivan, an Missa Ivan tol me,
Sey that im gi Neita di drop, Jamaica flop, an di moonshine drop,
Ee-he-ah-ha, ee-he-ah-ha, ee-he-ah-ha."

Now that we've cleared up what "Mattie Rag" refers to, can anyone explain (or try to explain) what the second verse of "Cudelia Brown" has to do with the first, which is about the girl and her red hair? This song was also sung by Miss Lou, as the flipside to the Mattie Rag recording, and she also sang it on a 1950 Folkways album [i]Jamaican Folk Songs/i], in which it is called a dance tune, even though its time signature is 4/4 (I've never heard of a dance tune in 4/4 time), but it seems to be universally agreed to be a folk song.

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

bump

[Peasie]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> can anyone explain (or try to explain) what the second verse of &quot;Cudelia Brown&quot; has to do with the first, which is about the girl and her red hair? </div></div>

Sure. But first you explain what the second verse of the Australian folk song, &quot;Waltzing Matilda&quot;, has to do with the first?

Waltzing Matilda

Oh there once was a swagman camped in a billabong
Under the shade of a coolibah tree
And he sang as he looked at his old billy boiling
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me

Chorus
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda my darling
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
Waltzing Matilda and leading a water bag
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me

Down came a jumbuck to drink at the water hole
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee
And he sang as he stowed him away in his tucker bag
You'll come a waltzing Matilda with me

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> can anyone explain (or try to explain) what the second verse of &quot;Cudelia Brown&quot; has to do with the first, which is about the girl and her red hair? </div></div>

Sure. But first you explain what the second verse of the Australian folk song, &quot;Waltzing Matilda&quot;, has to do with the first?

Waltzing Matilda

Oh there once was a swagman camped in a billabong
Under the shade of a coolibah tree
And he sang as he looked at his old billy boiling
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me

Chorus
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda my darling
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
Waltzing Matilda and leading a water bag
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me

Down came a jumbuck to drink at the water hole
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee
And he sang as he stowed him away in his tucker bag
You'll come a waltzing Matilda with me </div></div>

It's about a swagman, a man wandering in the bush and working for pay and rations (American equivalent is hobo), who steals a sheep at the water-hole where he (the swagman) is drinking and resting. The man is stealing the sheep for food (&quot;tucker bag&quot; is food bag- he probably hasn't eaten in a while or doesn't have enough rations). He's stealing the sheep probably as a strike against the establishment (station owner). This song is based on a poem inspired by a real incident during a shearers' strike in the 1890s, a decade before Federation in 1901, where a man called Freddy Hoffmeister burned down a shed on the station where he was employed for a while. During that period, there was a drought in the countryside and many shearers went out as swagmen, shearing sheep at different stations in return for rations. This was called &quot;waltzing Matilda&quot; (slang term for a swag, or sometimes a bedroll was Matilda) and they carried food and water for boiling tea in bags.

Now, I know the second stanza of CB is about a man (Missa Ivan) meeting a woman (Neita/Nita) on a moonlit night.

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

bump

[Magician]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

Wow! Sometimes better not to know the literal meaning.

Here I thought that Waltzing Matilda was about a pretty girl who likes to dance, only to find out that it's about a dutty bum who teef sheep!!!

[Wahalla]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

The original was even darker...the popular version was rethread for an advertisment... Tea I beleive... And it was based on a tune is based on a song from the Grampians &quot;Thou Bonnie Wood Of Craigielea&quot; .. And it has to do with a labour dispute as mentioned.. A close run thing to a revolution...

I am fascinated that a Chinese Ozzie Syndey sider had an interest in Jamaican &quot;folk&quot; songs... When I grew up decades ago we had to learn them and we hated them.. A bit like Sheakspearean english. then they seemed dated... and irrelevant. Having said that as I grew up in Jamaica in the 60's and 70's there was a sense thtat these were the remnats of an age of subvervience... We wanted to be more assertive. At hte time there was an explosion of creativeness that we still see today... now if i you were a &quot;banana bender&quot; then I would understand given the connection.

But as funny and irrational as this may sound, why dont you try and contact Colin Powel the ex Sectarary of States of the United States and ask him.. He is into this type of Jamaica musics and use to play them at the Pentagon when he worked there. And he loved it and he likes the heavy level of sexual inuendo..


Now I beleive the music of marley et al are the Jamaican folk songs of now... And a month or two back Jahkoostik proved it...

Cudelia Brown has a couple other versions.... my fahter sang it changing the naem to &quot;wahalla&quot;.... To me unfortunte that Mento / folk has a caracture image of players in coconut hats and bright shirts strumming gutars as tourists come off the ships... And again my disdain was reinforced by anotehr Ozzie Errol Flynn who claimed he loved Jamaican music of this sort...

I
Now anotehr ozzie is making me think about mento in anotehr way...Msut be the difference in ethnicity and the story of the Chinese in Mossman Queens land that I immidiately associated when I read your indroductory post!.. Talk about ironic!

I know that in the 70's that a very great Jamaican rearly mentioned : Dr Alfred Sangster did a series on Jamaican FolkMusic on television for schools (JBC) that may be worth veiwing.. (only heard of it never saw it) when he explained meaningfs of alot of these arcane meanings. (Dr Sangster a Jamaican who should be emulated and respected) Also from ST E....


(By the way Australia changed the way I felt about tourism, as I thought the model that it has is probably better as it is incorperated into life without being imposed on to the host country, I still cant get over going on a tourist trail in Freemantle and beign shown a building made in 1919 as if it was amazing, the year my father was born, the year the one room school in Jamaica where I did not finish two years of primary school was built..The house I lived in Jamaica was two hundred years old and the house I living in in the Grampians was built in 1857...)

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

Wahalia, what are some other versions of Cudelia Brown?

[Wahalla]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

Oh mass andy, wha mek yu head so hard
mass andy , wha mek yu head so hard ?
ah lub u
ah lub u
ah lub just de same...

[Wahalla]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

y r u so interested in Jamaican folk music ? just curious

My only two favoirtue and the only ones that I actually like are:

Sammy

And

colon man ah come...

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">y r u so interested in Jamaican folk music ? just curious

My only two favoirtue and the only ones that I actually like are:

Sammy

And

colon man ah come... </div></div>

Well, it started with Harry Belafonte and his &quot;calypsos&quot; and I got more into it... just got more fascinating.

[Magician]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And a month or two back Jahkoostik proved it...</div></div>

Jakoostic a de bass man!

Making the folk songs contemporary (and high quality recording) will hopefully make them popular with the yute dem.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PgeRxXg-4Cs&amp;feature=related"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PgeRxXg-4Cs&amp;feature=related" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

[Tulip]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

I don't have much experience listening to folk songs, but that sounded nice. Very soothing - I like!

[Gen]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

she's doing research for her book. (philosophy behind folk songs-breaking it down for the masses)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">y r u so interested in Jamaican folk music ? just curious

My only two favoirtue and the only ones that I actually like are:

Sammy

And

colon man ah come... </div></div>

[Wahalla]

Re: Cudelia Brown- second verse meaning

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And a month or two back Jahkoostik proved it...</div></div>

Jakoostic a de bass man!

Making the folk songs contemporary (and high quality recording) will hopefully make them popular with the yute dem.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PgeRxXg-4Cs&amp;feature=related"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PgeRxXg-4Cs&amp;feature=related" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

Well in mi cane chapping deys.. wi did rasie a sanke shanti on occasion...as we cut our way through a burnt feild of cane....

ooman ah heby load (chap)
ooman ah heby load (chap)
ooman ah hebb load (chap)
when satidey marning cum(chap)

when deh money nuh nuff (chap)
when den money nuh nuff (chap)
when deh money nuh nuff (chap)
dem call u ugli bwoy (chap)
when deh money nuff (cchap)
when deh money nuff (chap)
dem call uh pretti bwoy(chap)

Each chop u cleared the trash and chopped the cane....

To this day Jamaicans lovewor and sing....

as there were nuff marron we also sang a few marron songs like

pick up ur gun
and go to war
pick up ur gun
and go to war
mesa solja fighting far

pick up ur bill
and go to war
pick up ur bill
and go to war
Imesa solja fighting hard


pick up ur sow
and go to war
pick up ur sow
and go to war
mesa solja fighting far...


or the Bogle call

War dunga a munklan
war dunga a murumbey
War dunga a munklan
war dunga a murumbey
War dunga a munklan
war dunga a murumbey
war oh war oh war deh every wey....

It is possible that there are remants of Jamaican songs in Quuensland.. as Jamaicans went over to start the cane feilds....