If you have some time

[RichD]

Worth a read.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">When Did the GOP Lose Touch With Reality?</span></span>
Some of my Republican friends ask if I’ve gone crazy. I say: Look in the mirror.


By David Frum

http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...conservatives have built a whole alternative knowledge system, with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside this alternative reality, the United States is a country dominated by a strong Christian religiosity. Within it, Christians are a persecuted minority. Outside the system, President Obama—whatever his policy errors—is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he’s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action phony doomed to inevitable defeat. Outside the system, social scientists worry that the U.S. is hardening into one of the most rigid class societies in the Western world, in which the children of the poor have less chance of escape than in France, Germany, or even England. Inside the system, the U.S. remains (to borrow the words of Senator Marco Rubio) “the only place in the world where it doesn’t matter who your parents were or where you came from....”</div></div>

[Peasie]

Re: If you have some time

The other good thing that Frum did as a conservative pundit was to say - when no one would dare say it - that Sarah Palin is a dumb a$$, so I give him credit for that.

But this article, while brave and maybe even brazen (I approve), still has some tired and false conservative ideas. For example, as one comment in response to the article puts it:

&quot;<span style="font-style: italic">I was all set to praise Mr. Frum for his shockingly rational Conservative voice, until he mentioned, at least twice, that President Obama wants big government. These Republican buzz words are used to create the same anti-Obama sentiment that is denounced in the rest of the article. Does the President, or for that matter, Democrats, really want &quot;big government?&quot; Or, is he just acutely aware that in certain circumstances more involvement is necessary? Why are conservatives so scared of that phrase?</span> &quot;

[RichD]

Re: If you have some time

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other good thing that Frum did as a conservative pundit was to say - when no one would dare say it - that Sarah Palin is a dumb a$$, so I give him credit for that.

But this article, while brave and maybe even brazen (I approve), still has some tired and false conservative ideas. For example, as one comment in response to the article puts it:

&quot;<span style="font-style: italic">I was all set to praise Mr. Frum for his shockingly rational Conservative voice, until he mentioned, at least twice, that President Obama wants big government. These Republican buzz words are used to create the same anti-Obama sentiment that is denounced in the rest of the article. Does the President, or for that matter, Democrats, really want &quot;big government?&quot; Or, is he just acutely aware that in certain circumstances more involvement is necessary? Why are conservatives so scared of that phrase?</span> &quot; </div></div>

yes i saw this early in the article but later on he seems to back away from this dogma when he talks about the drifting from reality

[Peasie]

Re: If you have some time

Yes. I see. He did write this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I can’t shrug off this flight from reality and responsibility as somebody else’s problem. I belonged to this movement; I helped to make the mess.</span> </div></div>

[X]

Re: If you have some time

havent read it as yet, but u realize that when you look at the GOP candidates, POLITICS ASIDE.. George Bush would possibly STILL be a better pick for President..

makes me wonder..
- Did George W Bush<span style="font-style: italic"> really</span> lower the standard for US Presidency?
- Did John McCain sealed its fate in medioracy by injecting Sarah Palin into the political blood steam.. effectivly opening a pandora's box of dillusional overly-ambitious <span style="font-weight: bold">EDIOTS??</span>

[RichD]

Re: If you have some time

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">havent read it as yet, but u realize that when you look at the GOP candidates, POLITICS ASIDE.. George Bush would possibly STILL be a better pick for President..

makes me wonder..
- Did George W Bush<span style="font-style: italic"> really</span> lower the standard for US Presidency?
- Did John McCain sealed its fate in medioracy by injecting Sarah Palin into the political blood steam.. effectivly opening a pandora's box of dillusional overly-ambitious <span style="font-weight: bold">EDIOTS??</span>

</div></div>

but you realize that George W Bush could not win the nomination today.. Ronald Reagan could not win the nomination.

[Peasie]

Re: If you have some time

But I also wonder about these conservative pundits. What give them the right to say, &quot;Oh, I was wrong. Oops&quot; when they have just about destroyed good policies for American people?

Sort of reminiscent of Lee Atwater's deathbed confessions .

[RichD]

Re: If you have some time

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I also wonder about these conservative pundits. What give them the right to say, &quot;Oh, I was wrong. Oops&quot; when they have just about destroyed good policies for American people?

Sort of reminiscent of Lee Atwater's deathbed confessions . </div></div>

is the message more than the messenger i focusing on.

[Wahalla]

Re: If you have some time

An erudite piece...

it stikes me that from a fiscal and moral perspective that neither Lincoln, Eisenhower, Bush Senior or Ambrose Birsce would be as irrational as Fox news..

[RichD]

Re: If you have some time

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An erudite piece...

it stikes me that from a fiscal and moral perspective that neither Lincoln, Eisenhower, Bush Senior or Ambrose Birsce would be as irrational as Fox news.. </div></div>

the media phenomenon led by fox news had served to make the US basically ungovernable