An answer to Wahalla's question

[Morwen Edhelwen]

In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible.

[Gen]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

well well well tory come to bump

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. <span style="font-size: 14pt">I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso </span>(Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>

[Wahalla]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>


I am deeply offended.. I beleive that ozzies should only sing mento if they have had sex with a Jamaican by the shores of Great Bear Lake!!!!

[blugiant]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>

great topic

itt natt bout culture ar ethnicity dough. inn jamaica yu ave oyinbo, chinese ann addar ethnicity dat gitt support. itt more bout nation pride ann da beeleeve wey own da music. moas farreen jamaicans doan gitt de same respect iff dem mekk reggae music iff dem natt livinn inn jamaica

nah lie butt itt didd chubble mii wen dem made wan oyinbo da lead singer aff de wailers

[blugiant]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>


I am deeply offended.. I beleive that ozzies should only sing mento if they have had sex with a Jamaican by the shores of Great Bear Lake!!!! </div></div>

stapp eeth wahalla

yu losinn yu touch cah yu neva chatt bout da real aussie ar de abboridgeginnals

[kia027]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>

great topic

itt natt bout culture ar ethnicity dough. inn jamaica yu ave oyinbo, chinese ann addar ethnicity dat gitt support. itt more bout nation pride ann da beeleeve wey own da music. moas farreen jamaicans doan gitt de same respect iff dem mekk reggae music iff dem natt livinn inn jamaica

nah lie butt itt didd chubble mii wen dem made wan oyinbo da lead singer aff de wailers </div></div>

and just how oyinbo is this said leader of the wailers?

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

Wahalla, are you joking? I don't think many Aussies would be able to deliberately do that.. But seriously, many Aussies, if you ask them what they think of when they hear the words &quot;Jamaican music&quot; will say &quot;Bob Marley&quot; and &quot;reggae&quot;, or if they're more clued in they'll mention Belafonte. Bob Marley had <span style="font-style: italic">such a significant cultural impact, mostly everyone has some idea of who he was and of Rastafarian philosophy, even if they can't tell you much more than that he was born in Jamaica and he was a reggae star. /i] Almost [i]no Aussie (not in my age group)will have a clue what the word &quot;mento&quot; means.</span>
And adding that: <span style="font-style: italic"> well, not unless someone explains it to them. I'm talking about the people I personally know and are acquainted with here. </span>

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>

great topic

itt natt bout culture ar ethnicity dough. inn jamaica yu ave oyinbo, chinese ann addar ethnicity dat gitt support. itt more bout nation pride ann da beeleeve wey own da music. moas farreen jamaicans doan gitt de same respect iff dem mekk reggae music iff dem natt livinn inn jamaica

nah lie butt itt didd chubble mii wen dem made wan oyinbo da lead singer aff de wailers </div></div> So, blakkgiant, let me just get my head around this for a minute. If a Chinese Jamaican (or say a hypothetical Chinese person with some relatives in Jamaica, but who was, say- German (picking a nationality out of thin air here), sang mento/reggae/ska, would that give you the same funny feeling as the oyinbo lead singer of the Wailers? After all, both that lead singer and the hypothetical person have connections to Jamaica, it's just that they aren't Black, and the person you mentioned probably has a more recent connection (as they are born in Jamaica) The other doesn't, as they're German and German national laws don't allow you to have dual citizenship. But they still have a Jamaican connection and could count as a foreign Jamaican, and they identify as such because they see their relatives when they can and consider themselves part of the culture. <span style="font-style: italic">Is this, and this is not meant to be offensive to you or anyone else, because of the fact that Black people are more highly visible in Jamaica than those of other ethnicities? </span> Going back to the fact that <span style="font-style: italic">most Aussies</span> (and I'd assume most people outside of the Caribbean who aren't of Caribbean ancestry and don't live in areas with a large percentage of people with Caribbean ancestors) think of Jamaican/Caribbean music as a whole as divided into two categories; reggae and steel-drums,they also would probably think of Jamaicans as <span style="font-style: italic">Black people, and only Black people</span>

[Q3210]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

Let me swing it out a little please If I may.

Your interest manifested here reminds me much of such almost mento sounding Aussie songs like, &quot;Hold mi Kangaroo down de sport, hold de Kangaroo down deh.&quot;

Then there was, &quot;hold him Joe, nuh let him go, hol him joe.&quot;

[Q3210]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

Talk about culture sharing. Many years ago this aussie bloke had his programme aired nowhere else but on local Jamaican television. Thats where I heard the Kangaroo song sung live on living black and white.

[blugiant]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In answer to Wahalla's question about why I am interested in Jamaican folk songs/mento. I like to sing them. Would anyone here seriously object to an Australian singing mento/calypso (Yes, I know calypso's Trinidadian) songs? I don't want to offend anyone, and from Internet research, I've come to the conclusion that some people don't like people singing songs from outside their culture. I think it pretty much is fair game (after all, just look at all the non-Irish/Scottish singers performing Irish and Scottish traditional songs. How good it is varies), but I'd like to get as many opinions as possible. </div></div>

great topic

itt natt bout culture ar ethnicity dough. inn jamaica yu ave oyinbo, chinese ann addar ethnicity dat gitt support. itt more bout nation pride ann da beeleeve wey own da music. moas farreen jamaicans doan gitt de same respect iff dem mekk reggae music iff dem natt livinn inn jamaica

nah lie butt itt didd chubble mii wen dem made wan oyinbo da lead singer aff de wailers </div></div>

and just how oyinbo is this said leader of the wailers? </div></div>

yu tink itt wass bob mii chattinn bout nuh troooo

da de wailers still perfarminn. wance mii inna cali ann mii friend got uss tickets fe see da wailers ann da lead singer wass wan oyinbo natty dough de rest aff de group blakk. juss neva feel da same vibes wen oyinbo wass singinn sum aff bob chunes

[blugiant]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MorwenEdhelwen1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So, blakkgiant, let me just get my head around this for a minute. If a Chinese Jamaican (or say a hypothetical Chinese person with some relatives in Jamaica, but who was, say- German (picking a nationality out of thin air here), sang mento/reggae/ska, would that give you the same funny feeling as the oyinbo lead singer of the Wailers? After all, both that lead singer and the hypothetical person have connections to Jamaica, it's just that they aren't Black, and the person you mentioned probably has a more recent connection (as they are born in Jamaica) The other doesn't, as they're German and German national laws don't allow you to have dual citizenship. But they still have a Jamaican connection and could count as a foreign Jamaican, and they identify as such because they see their relatives when they can and consider themselves part of the culture. <span style="font-style: italic">Is this, and this is not meant to be offensive to you or anyone else, because of the fact that Black people are more highly visible in Jamaica than those of other ethnicities? </span> Going back to the fact that <span style="font-style: italic">most Aussies</span> (and I'd assume most people outside of the Caribbean who aren't of Caribbean ancestry and don't live in areas with a large percentage of people with Caribbean ancestors) think of Jamaican/Caribbean music as a whole as divided into two categories; reggae and steel-drums,they also would probably think of Jamaicans as <span style="font-style: italic">Black people, and only Black people</span> </div></div>

yu kno y mii neva bunn a likkle fiyah pon yu beefour. itt cah even dough yu aff pon a fact findinn mission widd regard to mento ann calypso yu were brave enuff to cum to da fiyahside ann dat show dat yu mekkinn a effarts to ovatand da jamaican perspective. da iss da reason y wen mii saw da oyinbo lead singer aff de wailers itt affended mii cah mii tarted fe qwestian da tosh, bob ann bunny inn dem early days wood ave been okay widd dat. oyinbo lead singer aff de wailer iss juss bout wurds widdout contexx

yu kno da histaree aff german town inn jamaica? redd tings dat u knoo mii iss natt de onlee wan butt sum thyme jamaicans see oyinbo buy wan aff dem tam widd locks ann moas aff doinn itt out aff ignorance natt dissrespect ann dem wandar y jamaica doan rate dem. iss itt cah dem oyinbo?

wen mii challenge peeps pon racial ann kultural issues, mii ussualleee challenged dem racial ann cultural location. yu pint bout german singinn reggae iss wat mii mean. yu chattinn bout dat germany doan recognise dual citizenship cah yu miss da pint dat jamaica do so yu qwestian iss fram da oyinbo perspective? lackinn dat kultural understandinn mean dat yu frame tings fram oyinbo perspectives. dat y yu doan gitt y ann manee blakks wood bee affended bye da oyinbo lead singer aff da wailers widdout owa criticism being racist cah dat wood require yu fe dissregard de oyinbo perspective ann see itt fram a blakk jamaican perspective.

itt natt issue aff iff oyinbo can sing mento, calypso and ar reggae. itt bout given oyinbo lack aff ovatandinn de blakk xxperiences shood oynbo be allowed to bee da lead singer aff de wailers given da wailer histaree aff important to da afrikkan xxperience. realitee iss dat de wailers sold out

[Wahalla]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

well the wailers beleive it was black people dat rip dem aff not Chris whitewell...

suh blak can a taino sing reggae or mento ?

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

blakkgiant, thanks for your response. Going back to that example, the singer is White in a band <span style="font-style: italic">where the other singers are Black and where the music has its roots in the African experience. Rastafarianism is based on the belief (from my research) that Haile Selassie I, an Ethiopian emperor, was the Second Coming, and it was (and still is) the philosophy behind reggae, or at least some of it</span>. According to another poster, the issue is of national origin and understanding. And you said, it seems to be more of that White Jamaicans (and tourists) don't really understand Black Jamaicans, as in their cultural experiences, due to the racial history.
And that's when cultural appropriation (like &quot;Ooh, this hairstyle's cool! Let me get it, I'll be so exotic! Look at me on a tropical island, fitting in with the natives, la-la-la&quot; on the part of tourists) becomes an issue. And that means I'll have to think some more. Thanks for that.

(<span style="font-style: italic">I admit my perspective is very White-influenced despite my heritage, and I probably would have to spend a very long time in Jamaica before I gained some of your and others' cultural understanding </span>. Is the issue that reggae is linked to mento, which was part of the cultures of Black Jamaicans, and that White Jamaicans played a strong role in suppressing those records that were made in the 50s (they considered them indecent), so the idea of some oyinbo person singing mento or reggae becomes something like (I know this is really simple, but I'm trying to describe it in sentences and get to my point at the same time) &quot;Your ancestors enslaved my ancestors/put them in indentured servitude for centuries. As part of that your culture suppressed my culture's music and cultural expressions, exploiting your power in order to get cheap labour and reinforcing the idea that you were racially superior. And now you play and sing the same music, you want to express yourself in the same way, even though you don't really understand my culture or my experience.&quot;

And so what does that fact mean for someone like me who wants to sing mento?

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: An answer to Wahalla's question

The point being this question; Can someone who wants to sing another nationality's music get respect from people from that country? Or will they always be a novelty (as in, &quot;Ooh, look, there's a talking horse! Look guys, that horse can talk! Isn't that <span style="font-style: italic"> cool?</span>&quot Or <span style="font-style: italic">is it possible for someone who sings another country's traditional music to not be a novelty act, but be regarded in the same way as a performer from that country? </span>