Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

[Wahalla]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

I dont understand yankis...

I cannot understand how it is veiwed that heath care at point of use without payment is not the ideal...it follows IMHO much the same as the Hippocratic oath... do no harm, and help those in need. How can u have a situation that care is determined by where u work ??

In Jamaica there is a tacit acknowledgement that we cannot afford to provide it. Ask a direct question to any poltican as "should heath care be free" the answer would be yes..

In the UK despite the Thatcher Decade there is an acknowledgement that the ideal should be the post war social contract of "free at point of use". All sides of the poltical spectrum acknowledge this...They also acknowledge that life is less than ideal so there has to be compromise.. In fact there is at election time a blame game to say by each poltical party that they will invest more in national health service .. I know I can see my doctor if my children has a cold without having to fork out a penny.. I had four or five people who had serious conditions (one was in hospital for 18 months a bus driver on close to minimum wage.. ) no payment.

The only nay sayers against the national health service is a miniscual minority...

Heath is part of the infrastructure of a nation as much as roads and education.. I cannot imagine or even understand the US situation.... Aids SAR chicken Flu are all clear and present danger to a nations security. The only way these issues can be addressed is through a national policy, with emphersis on preventative medicine.. Child heath care ???????

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

while tryign to find the source of LW's article i came across this:


Death Toll Calculator

If it is Mon Jan 16 2012 10:22:20 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), then:

Illegal aliens have murdered more than <span style="font-weight: bold">17712</span> people inside the USA so far this year, and:

Illegal aliens have murdered more than <span style="font-weight: bold">45348</span> people inside the USA since 9/11.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

Despite the US having the lowest rates of TB since 1953, disparities are due to poverty as inferred by the CDC...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">To achieve TB elimination, ongoing efforts are needed to address the persistent disparities that exist between U.S.-born and foreign-born persons, and between whites and minorities in the United States.</span></div></div>The right-wing would have us believe that getting rid of the poor will remove all problems rather than getting rid of poverty. SMH

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> CDC DATA

In 2010, the reported number of TB cases decreased slightly from the previous year. In 2010, there were 11,182 reported TB cases (3.6 cases per 100,000 persons) compared to 11,537 reported TB cases from 2009. <span style="font-weight: bold">TB case totals are now at the lowest number recorded since national reporting began in 1953.</span>




Your link is broken so cant see the full source of your article. But i can bet its form some propaganda rag. i know anti immigrant guys like Lou Dobbs have been pushing this misinformation.

</div></div>


Yeah right, you certainly didn't try very hard because I'm sure it interfered with preconceived notions of what you wanted to believe....facts are facts.

I can't fix the link. I tried, but below is where you can find the information.
Sorry to disappoint, but no right wing conspiracy


If the shoe fits wear it. If the truth hurts bear it.

A resurgence of deadly diseases: diseases once thought to be ...
Nov 27, 2006 ... Free Online Library: A resurgence of deadly diseases: diseases once thought to be nearly eradicated in America, such as tuberculosis and ...
www.thefreelibrary.com
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+res...s%3A+diseases+ once+thought+to+be+nearly...-a0155664505

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

thanks...i found what i was looking for...where the article orginally came from.


&quot;THE NEW AMERICAN&quot;


a very unbiased publication



wonder what the John Birch society is all about?......why do they call them radical right wing?

[jah_yout]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's get to the root of the problem.</div></div>


<span style="font-weight: bold">WELFARE AND THE CULTURE OF POVERTY </span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Out-of-Wedlock Births</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Out-of-Wedlock births are the most rapidly increasing social pathology. On a national basis (in 1991), 29.2 percent of births were to single mothers, with a range from 14.3 percent in Utah to 65.9 percent in the District of Columbia. Since 1960, the illegitimacy rate has increased from 2.3 percent to 22 percent for whites and from 21.4 percent to 68 percent for blacks. A substantial part of the current generation of inner city young people has grown up without a father, a contributor to the increase in violent crime and the decline in school performance as well as to some of the pathologies addressed in this study.</span>

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n1-1.html

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yea that's the real problem...yep- out of wedlock birth...

if we can only get those blacks to be born in wedlock all our problems would be solved...it would create jobs &amp; eliminate bigotry &amp; corruption...being born in wedlock would increase the funding to inner-city schools...
it would also prevent mass incarceration of black males due to that great innovation- the war on drugs- which targets people &quot;of color&quot; for lockdown and reputation-smashing in case they ever want to look for a job or such;

just get married, black people, and you will be in utopia

[jah_yout]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

[Wendy]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mangoskin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do US corporations, tax breaks and farm subsidies count? </div></div>

Dr. King words are still true and timely:

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Whenever government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people, they call it <span style="font-weight: bold">“subsidies</span>” (i.e. necessary for the good of the economy?) When they do it for Negroes and poor people, they call it<span style="font-weight: bold"> 'welfare.</span>' </span>

[quodlibet]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WeNdY_PeNdY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mangoskin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do US corporations, tax breaks and farm subsidies count? </div></div>

Dr. King words are still true and timely:

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Whenever government provides opportunities and privileges for white people and rich people, they call it <span style="font-weight: bold">“subsidies</span>” (i.e. necessary for the good of the economy?) When they do it for Negroes and poor people, they call it<span style="font-weight: bold"> 'welfare.</span>' </span>

</div></div>

when you allow &quot;them&quot; to dominate the discussion, and &quot;they&quot; are the same as &quot;those&quot; who receive the benefit, it is to be expected.

after all, one man tax is another man tithe...

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks...i found what i was looking for...where the article orginally came from.


&quot;THE NEW AMERICAN&quot;


a very unbiased publication



wonder what the<span style="font-weight: bold"> John Birch society </span>is all about?......why do they call them radical right wing?

</div></div>

Really? I honestly did not know. You obviously went to great lengths to link this with the John Birch society to somehow discredit, but you never addressed the validity of the information.
You have failed to disprove the information, which means it must be correct. It's ironic, that posting the origin, you gave a plug to a right wing publication...I find that amusing. lol

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea that's the real problem...yep- out of wedlock birth... </div></div>

Yes, it is a problem. Babies having babies is a problem.Young unwed mothers are a problem. It's a black and white issue. Look at the stats and place your racist thoughts and agenda aside....You can't throw money at everything and fix it. Somethings start at home at very begining.

[kia027]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea that's the real problem...yep- out of wedlock birth... </div></div>

Yes, it is a problem. Babies having babies is a problem.Young unwed mothers are a problem. It's a black and white issue. Look at the stats and place your racist thoughts and agenda aside....You can't throw money at everything and fix it. Somethings start at home at very begining. </div></div>

out of wedlock birth is not the problem. It is households with one parent raising kids. the child could be born out of wedlock but the parents are together.

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks...i found what i was looking for...where the article orginally came from.


&quot;THE NEW AMERICAN&quot;


a very unbiased publication



wonder what the<span style="font-weight: bold"> John Birch society </span>is all about?......why do they call them radical right wing?

</div></div>

Really? I honestly did not know. You obviously went to great lengths to link this with the John Birch society to somehow discredit, but you never addressed the validity of the information.
You have failed to disprove the information, which means it must be correct. By posting the origin of the article you have ironically gave a plug to a right wing publication...I find that amusing. lol



</div></div>

didnt take much to link the new american to john birch...out of habit i try to understand the leanings of any sources and their agenda(everybody has one)...you should do the same.


what should i disprove? the facts or the interpretation of the facts? this the argument i have with cakes all the time ...facts are facts...if the rate of TB is 11 time higher among immigrants that is a fact..but how the author chooses to spin those facts is what is up for debate. the fact is that the rate of TB is no higher now than it it has been in the past.
my issue is the tone of panic and resentment the author is aiming at spreading.

the argument that there are new epidemics and the country is in danger is highly debatable.

ETA: did i just see in another post you criticizing cakes for using Op-ed outlets as a source of facts?

[jah_yout]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea that's the real problem...yep- out of wedlock birth... </div></div>

Yes, it is a problem. Babies having babies is a problem.Young unwed mothers are a problem. <span style="font-weight: bold">It's a black and white issue.</span> Look at the stats and place your racist thoughts and agenda aside....You can't throw money at everything and fix it. Somethings start at home at very begining. </div></div>

it's beyond silly to think that marriage cures all ills...it's intellectual laziness when the talking heads throw out statistics about black people &amp; marriage but ignore the political &amp; social factors around money/wealth/economics/socialization...
i will go as far as to say that if jobs were available to more men, there would be less so-called &quot;illegitimate&quot; births...(i use the phrase for familiarity because i don't consider any birth of any child to be illegitimate);
you say it's a problem in black &amp; white, but clearly you and republican candidates (like newt gingrich &amp; rick sanitorium) really mean it is a black thing;

by the way i am not a racist

[jah_yout]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea that's the real problem...yep- out of wedlock birth... </div></div>

Yes, it is a problem. Babies having babies is a problem.Young unwed mothers are a problem. It's a black and white issue. Look at the stats and place your racist thoughts and agenda aside....You can't throw money at everything and fix it. Somethings start at home at very begining. </div></div>

out of wedlock birth is not the problem. It is households with one parent raising kids. the child could be born out of wedlock but the parents are together. </div></div>

another fallacy which the media loves to push...
single-parent homes is not the ideal but it is also not the den of destruction which has been portrayed in the media;
plenty of our most accomplished have come from so-called single-parent homes, including clinton &amp; obama;

the economic issues are bigger than that, as well as other socio-economic &amp; political factors