Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

[RichD]

Re: Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xigaM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fatigue is a serious issue in aviation. When you're tired you judgement is clouded. That's when you have to fall back on standard operating procedures and your colleagues to keep you out of trouble. It doesn't seem they did things by the book on this flight. </div></div>

xigaM, part of the problem is that Air Canada only has 2 pilots in the cockpit. I notice Etihad and Emirates have bigger flight deck crews so everyone can get a proper rest. Is this only on the long haul flights?

What about the part of confusing Venus with an aircraft? I just don't see how that's possible. </div></div>

air canada runs relief crew on longer flights zurich is not long enuff

[Tropicana]

Re: Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

I beg to differ....Toronto to Zurich at night must be exhausting. They need 3 pilots for anything transatlantic.

At least they are letting people nap. On Air Canada, it used to be that any member of the flight deck or cabin crew would be fired for napping. In fact, crews had to sign off on this during training.

[RichD]

Re: Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I beg to differ....Toronto to Zurich at night must be exhausting. They need 3 pilots for anything transatlantic.

At least they are letting people nap. On Air Canada, it used to be that any member of the flight deck or cabin crew would be fired for napping. In fact, crews had to sign off on this during training. </div></div>

they i don't think they get relief until the flight is longer then 9 hours.

the flights to the middle east and far east usually have &quot;cruisers&quot;

[Tropicana]

Re: Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

Seems like a long day to me.

Remember they have to check in ahead of time and for cabin crew there is a crew briefing (I'm not sure if pilots have that). There are safety checks to be done, meals to be counted, equipment to get read. So if the flight is 9 hours, the day is longer.

Air Canada needs to watch that in trying to become profitable they don't burn out their crews. I guess this is why the pilot's union has been pushing for changes for some time now.

CBC explored this 2 years ago:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/03/25/pilot-fatigue025.html

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Pilot fatigue raised in Canadian crashes
</span>

<span style="font-style: italic"> Twenty-eight people have died in a dozen plane crashes across Canada over the past decade where fatigue was cited as a possible factor, a CBC News investigation has found.

Transportation Safety Board reports note pilot-fatigue-related issues in six deadly crashes and in an additional six accidents — including the Air France crash in Toronto — where all on board survived.

Most of the incidents involved small regional airlines, where many pilots complain about working long hours to increase their low earnings and rack up the required 1,000 flight hours to advance to captain status.

&quot;Pilots would show up to work fatigued, land fatigued, take off again fatigued,&quot; said Steve, a pilot who asked that his real name not be used.

Steve admitted that he's fallen asleep driving his car to work and while in flight. He once awoke on a flight to discover both he and the flight captain had been asleep.

Many pilots at small airlines interviewed by CBC News spoke about feeling under pressure to exceed regulatory limits on the amount of time pilots are allowed to remain on duty, causing them to lie in logbooks to avoid Transport Canada's attention.

Similar to alcohol impairment
Under Canadian regulations, pilots can be on duty for 14 hours, or up to 17 hours if there are unforeseen circumstances.

Pilots flying planes carrying nine passengers or fewer can also work up to 14 consecutive days of 14 hours. Pilots of larger planes are capped at 12 hours a day for 14 days.

Research has shown that people working 18 to 20 hours, if they start at 8 a.m., were almost as impaired as someone with a blood-alcohol level of .05 to .07 per cent. The legal limit for driving in Canada is .08 per cent blood-alcohol concentration.

The Australian study also showed that impairment rose to an equivalent of 0.1 blood-alcohol level when participants had been awake for 24 hours.

&quot;If it's not OK to be impaired due to alcohol, why is it OK to have the same level of impairment due to fatigue?&quot; asks Drew Dawson, an international expert on fatigue and director for the Centre for Sleep Research at Adelaide's University of South Australia, who conducted the study.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Regulations dated: unions</span>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">The Air Canada Pilots Association and other unions, representing almost 7,000 pilots, have been calling for Transport Canada to change flight- and pilot-scheduling regulations.</span></span>

In Europe, duty times are shorter when crew members start work during the night versus the day, to take into account the effects of circadian rhythms, a body's internal clock which is disrupted by time zone changes.

That's a stark comparison to Canada, where despite repeated references in Transportation Safety Board reports about the detrimental impact circadian rhythm disruptions can have on pilot ability, particularly during crises, there are no limitations that take them into account.

&quot;In Canada, it doesn't matter what time of the day we start, no matter what time you wake up or where you are in your circadian rhythm, you're still able to work under the regulations for 14 hours,&quot; said Wiszniowksi.

For example, pilots can receive a call at 9 p.m. with a request to work a 14-hour shift, causing them to be awake for 24 hours, he says.


</span>

Anyway there is lots more in the article.

[Tropicana]

Re: Air Canada Pilot Nose Dive Report Sounds Bogus

This is intersting too:

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