Racial Issues in Malaysia

[Tropicana]

I am not sure where this should go but I did not want to mash up Jazz's beautiful Langkawi thread with all those lovely photos. This is a continuation of a discussion Wahalla and I are starting to have.

I am cautious to tell you why that is...

A comment a Chinese Malaysian made to me: Mahatir was a great anti Apartheid campaigner at the same time he set up laws that were subtle and equally rascist

It is more complex than that... Have u actually read any local newspapers ?

Always. When I am there and also on-line.

They are exactly like the newspapers in the Gulf with no ctiisism of the goverment. They have in place a goverment censor in the editorial staff.... So every thing appears bland..

Look at adverts for new build houses.. if u look at the small print there is usually a line. that states. Bumiputara discount of 9%. Their are quotas in place that limit based on ethnicity.... If u try to recruit u are forced to take Bumiputara... Interestingly I belleive that there hasnt been a census for a few years because it would indicate that the proportions of minorities chinese and indians have increased relative to the bumiputaras, as this would impact how resources are deployed.

I believe that this was an employment equity initiative for want of a better term that ensured Malay had access to jobs. I don't see that as racist but a measure to ensure equity.

I also beleive that there is a

but then I have a habit of getting drunk with journalists.

You have me beat there. I rarely drink and don't get drunk.

Interestingly who u need to speak to are ex pat Malaysians... Usually they are indian extraction or Chinese....

Social clubs are split along ethnic lines and one of the few times I saw open acknowledgment of the issue was during a commonwealth games 8 years ago...it was to do with Jamaican success. What the oped peice acknowledge that Jamaica athletes out performs every one because Jamaicans see themselves as Jamaican... while Malaysia are held back by the fact that they dont mix and they eat too much!

Depends on the club. Membership to Royal Selangor Polo Club, for example, is racially mixed.

However if u are invited to

Here is a Kanadian Asian perspective.. since I know wahalla knows nothing....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8524353.stm

here is a paper that puts context...

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/Digital-Library/Publications/Detail/?lng=en&id=152597

But just remember during apartheid there were visitors who went to South Africa who said the land was filled with happy Africans....

again I like KL alot....

No place is perfect so I would never say that there are no issues. I know, for example, that there were racial tensions that lead to Singapore as an independent nation.

Again, I among comparing to what I know and see elsewhere. I find the C-suite far more racially mixed than in Canada and a much higher percentage of female executives than a see in Canada. In Canada, I still see executive positions dominated by white males over 40 and in many major companies, this is still the profile for managers and directors to. No I will not name names but check out the wireless communications industry and telcos for starters.

[Tropicana]

Working my way through your articles:

A Chinese man once offered to be my pimp. Or at least that is what I deduced from the candid way he talked to me about how many girls from China come here to work as prostitutes.I was eating at a street stall in a shady district of Kuala Lumpur.
The owner, Mr Ng, rents apartments to these women, and told me he has recommended their services to his friends.
"I know a lot about these girls," he said in Chinese, handing me his mobile number on a crumpled business card.
"Give me a shout if you ever need an apartment… or anything."
I'm Chinese-Canadian. But I learned Mandarin in Beijing. Mr Ng must have picked up on my accent and thought I was from China - a forgivable mistake.
I remembered reading about how Chinese prostitutes were in high demand in Malaysia because of their "fair skin" and "statuesque figure".
I found it odd - considering the Chinese are the second largest ethnic group in the country. So why would there be such a big demand from China?
"None of the local Chinese are willing to go into the industry," said Mr Ng, leaning back in his chair. "They're more educated here."

Divisive sentiments
Nasir Safar, an adviser to the prime minister, recently resigned after he reportedly said Chinese women mainly came to the country to dabble in the flesh trade.

Yeah I notice there are Chinese pimps walking around downtown KL with pamphlets and photos. They approach menu who look foreign and ask if they want them to send TWO "Chinese girls" to their hotel later for massage.



Why two and why Chinese?

This reminded me of the time I asked the front desk at the hotel to refer me to the spa for reflexology. Whenever I wear high heels for the whole day or even an evening, I am in absolute agony. In Asia, these treatments are cheap so I have one and usually a massage every day. They do the traditional massages over there where the masseuse walks on your back. Very effective. Have you ever had it Wahalla? How about cupping?

Anyway, I was directed me to one of the other floors. When I got to the spa, I said I wanted reflexology. I followed the attendance. The place was HUGE and noisy. I noticed that the place was crowded, packed. There were all of these men, really well built lounging about. There were hot tubs and some of the men were relaxing in them. I don't recall what else. Every now and then a Chinese young woman with a perfect figure would walk by in a bikini and wrap. Bikinis were identical. I noticed the men were turning and looking at me. I was lead to some chairs lined up in rows near one of the hot tubs and directed to sit down. A well built Chinese man in muscles told me to put my feet up. I said "You're going to do it here". He said "Yes". I looked around and said..."What kind of spa is this anyway?" He said "A spa for men...."



With that I thanked him, said I had changed my mind and left.



Found a wonderful place across the street and also a great spa in the complex adjoining the hotel where I go for massages and reflexology whenever I am in KL.

[Tropicana]

Government officials deny that racism is part of the curriculum.Malaysia, they say, is still a moderate Muslim nation that embraces diversity.
That is true if you come to Kuala Lumpur. You can always hear a mix of Malay, Chinese, Tamil and English spoken on the streets.
No mixing
On a recent visit, an old high school friend from Canada marvelled at how multicultural the country is.
But many Malaysian analysts, mainly Chinese, have warned me that this is superficial.
History professor Khoo Kay Kim at the University of Malaya told me to keep my eyes open when I walked through the campus.
"See whether there are students of various ethnic groups mingling," he said, sounding resigned. "Never."
"There will always be a group of Chinese, a group of Indians and a group of Malays. There is no mixing between the races."

Well in Canada I wouldn't say no mixing but for sure if you go into high schools with a diverse population, you will see the students congregating and clustering not just along racial but also ethnic lines. There was a huge article recently about tensions between Jamaican and Somali students at a Toronto high school not too long ago. Alas, I can't easily find it. It happens in the USA too as I found this.

300 students, involving Somalis and AA's, start food fight/race riot in high school, 4 hospitalized Published on Feb 15, 2013

What started out as a lunchtime food fight in a Minneapolis high school ended in a massive brawl involving hundreds of students and police officers wielding canisters of Mace.

Minneapolis South High School was placed on lockdown shortly before 1pm Thursday after violence broke out during third-period lunch inside the cafeteria between Muslim and black students.

The fight involved 200-300 students and lasted about 15 minutes, leaving four people injured. Teaching continued as usual during the lockdown, but students had to remain in their classrooms.

Students were let out at 3pm as usual, and parents were not asked to pick up their children. After-school activities proceeded as scheduled, CBS Minnesota reported.

According to a message posted Thursday afternoon on the school's website, the incident began unfolding at around 12.45pm and quickly escalated into a large-scale physical confrontation.

More than 20 staff members and two school resource officers responded immediately and attempted to break up the fight, but were unable to handle the situation and called the Minneapolis Police Department for help.

Dozens of police officers who arrived on the scene tried to disperse the crowd of brawling teenagers, but to no avail.

They then formed a human chain often used during crowd control situation and called on the brawlers to stand down, but when that failed, police sprayed Mace into the air above the crowd

Four people, including three students and one staff member who was hit in the head with a bottle, were sent to a hospital. Police said no weapons were used in the altercation, and the teens' unspecified injuries were not related to the fight.

A dozen people also complained of suffering from side effects related to the chemical agent sprayed by police. They were treated on the scene for Mace inhalation.

Student Abdi Sheik told CBS that the fight escalated into a 'big riot' over racial hostilities that have long been bubbling under the surface.

According to witnesses, an initial fight happened during the first lunch period when one student threw a milk carton at another. By the time the third period came around, the situation spiraled out of control, with boys hitting girls and some students lying on the floor and covering their faces in surrender.

Some members of the South High School community said that the violent incident was the culmination of ongoing tensions between the eight per cent of Muslim students of Somali descent and the 20 per cent who are African Americans

[Tropicana]

I haven't heard of any reports like this about schools in Malaysia.

[jah_yout]

remember that thread about the canadian mayor crack story when you asked me why I said the Canadian comments about alleged Somali drug dealers was a judgement? well I will answer; I have seen Somalis talk like Nazi KKK card-carrying members about Jamaicans and "black" people (as if they are not "black")....obviously not all Somalis but I have seen it enough to bun fiyah

[jah_yout]

I haven't heard of any reports like this about schools in Malaysia.

I bet the youtube comments are very heavy on the word "N!gg3rs"....you think a cafeteria food fight would be a good barometer of Malaysian ethnic tensions?

[Wahalla]

You have me beat there. I rarely drink and don't get drunk


En vino, Veritas..... In Wine Truth I believe that is a quote from Cissero

You get truth when drinking....You get information from Journalists....

There are major issues connected with ethnicity in Malaysia...

There was in the 1950's to early 60's a virtual civil war which the British call The Malaysian incident....it was one of those conflicts that had a multifaceted cause... Clash of countries over borders Indonesia Vs Malaysia , clash of ideology Communism / Maoism vs capitalism... but it was also a clash of ethnicities as on one side the combatants were mainly ethnic chinese throw backs from the WWII resistance who refused second class citzenship... The cause of why they fought because of ethnic loyalties...Like many civil wars there are issues that society ratehr not address that remain in place.. one is the ethnic conflict.. the territorial and ideological clashes were all settled... ethnic root was not.

I suggest u thread carefully because there is a sensitivity in Malaysia about this issue... so it is a discussion that has to be broached with h care not with ur intolerant overbearing manner where truth is from a tropicana only perspective as u are apt to do with great frequency on here.. Face is still an issue...

Ask any Muslim Bumiputra if there is an issue, the answer is no... Ask a member of the minorities Chinese or Hindu Indian Malaysia...My conversations with Chinese and Indian Hindus in Malaysia leads me to beleive that there is an issue.

As for woman rights there are in parallel to the ehe state secular courts a system of Islamic courts in Malaysia that has had surprising results.. occasionally they spring up in the news, and these are not reported locally..... And there are usually a liaison with that system in most companies. .. I got into trouble with it, for going into my car with a Bumiputara Assistant female who took me to a bank to do some buisness...It was made clear to me that the muslim lady must never do that again... a Again because this is an issue in Malaysia is more nuanced that the simplistic way u view race.. A more African perspective where ethnicity, religion, nationalism is a potent mix...


but to me it is interesting that the fifth Prime Minister of Malaysia was married to a half Japanese lady who was born in Malaysia in WWII...now that is interesting...



Jackmandora mi nuh chose nun

[jah_yout]

I have found the attitude of many nowadays young Somalis absolutely abominable- most of them say they are not black...even though white people call them "ni66ers" they turn around & project the same thing unto black people...here is one comment from the video; Somali people can get along with evry1 becauze they 're best people they aren't black

[Tropicana]

When it's hundreds of children fighting along ethnic lines...and some of them end up in hospital. I am going through Wahalla's comments and the article bit by bit. A point was made about children "not mixing" I am putting this in perspective and comparing it to what happens in North America. My point is that what is going on here is a lot worse.

Still trying to find the articles about the tensions between Jamaican and Somali teens in Toronto which has resulted in some deaths. I trust that will be a dramatic enough barometer for you jah_yout. Searching for them, I stumbled on the recent incident in Minnesota.

[Tropicana]

I don't normally like to use the Toronto Sun as a source and the original article is no longer on-line but since jah_yout insists on trying to bust my chops at every turn and trivialize this, this refers to it and will have to suffice until I find a better source that covers it.

Please note, this is a high school and these are just the girls....

A fight by two girl gangs --including one called Killer Squad -- led to Toronto cops seizing a loaded magnum and knives from a 14-year-old's Dora the Explorer backpack, police say.

Police sources said as many as 60 Killer Squad members were fighting with a rival girl gang when cops were called to break up the fracas at Thistletown Collegiate Tuesday.

The groups -- one made up of girls from the Somali community and the other girls of Jamaican descent -- have been feuding for months in Rexdale schoolyards, detectives said.

[Tropicana]

Racial Issues in Malaysia vs Canada

And this is what recently happened to a teen from our own community right here in Toronto the good:

Jarvis Montaque, 15, was with friends enjoying music and a snack just beside the front steps of his family’s Rexdale townhome before 11 p.m. when a rare late night of fun before a day off school was shattered by gunfire.The teen and his two friends never saw the assailant coming — a man about 5-foot-6, in a shiny black coat, hood pulled over his head — as he walked east along Jamestown Cres., hidden from view by Montaque’s brown-brick rowhouse.



Concealed in darkness due to a burnt-out light affixed to the two-unit Toronto Community Housing building, he said nothing before firing one shot and fleeing back in the direction he’d come. Montaque and his friends fled and scattered into the housing complex, as he made a hard turn east down a laneway between two rowhouses.

Their fleeing woke one woman — “Just the running woke me up,” she said later — who lives with her children inside the courtyard. (She asked that her name not be used.)Drawn to the upstairs window, she saw Montaque — who moved just two years ago from Jamaica to live with his father — slumped at the stairs to the laneway. The woman at first thought he had just slipped and fallen, but then called 911 after a friend crouched over Montaque and yelled for help.


He is the city’s eighth homicide this year, and the third 15-year-old shooting victim after the deaths of Tyson Bailey in Regent Park and St. Aubyn Rodneyin the Jane-Finch area. Nine-year-old Kesean Williams was also killed by gunfire in Brampton last month.

On Monday, what was meant to be a relaxing Family Day was filled with grief for one family as a flood of churchgoers, friends and Caribbean food wrapped in tinfoil arrived at the family’s home, near Kipling Rd. and John Garland Blvd..

“He makes jokes. He tries to make everybody happy,” said Montaque’s brother-in-law, standing on the stoop of the rowhouse.

The man, who would not give his name and insisted on referring to his loved one in the present tense, had tears in his eyes as he remembered the younger boy as studious, always returning straight home from school when classes let out.

“The one time he’s just having fun,” the man said, his voice trailing off.

Worden confirmed Montaque was a Grade 10 student at Fr. Henry Carr High School and had no criminal record or history with police.

“They were listening to music, having something to eat,” Worden said.

He said the motive for the shooting is at this point “unknown.” The shooter was not recognized by either friend who was with Montaque at the time at the housing complex known as Thistledown 1. Both were cooperating with police and had given interviews, Worden said.

A family friend, who only gave his name as Sammy, said the quiet boy loved to visit his studio for Sammy’s reggae radio program and didn’t have many friends after making the move to Canada.

The boy’s father emerged from the house Monday afternoon, bleary-eyed and disoriented, pouring salt on the front steps.

Meanwhile the community is left questioning their safety after another youth was tragically killed in what is also the third shooting death of a youth to occur on Toronto Community Housing property.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/02/18/rexdale_teen_15_dies_after_being_shot_in_torso.html

Teen, 15, gunned down in Toronto’s Regent Park neighbourhood



Toronto’s first gun-murder victim of 2013 is a 15-year-old football fan who was planning to spend his Friday afternoon playing XBox with friends, according to those who knew him.

He was taken to St. Michael’s Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
By 5 p.m., several emotional friends had gathered just beyond the police tape behind the 14-storey building. “This can’t be real, this can’t be,” one girl screamed.
“I was supposed to be at his house right now.”
One member of the group, a 17-year-old male who refused to give his name for fear of retribution, identified the victim as Tyson Bailey.
Police could not confirm the name.
The teen said Tyson was a running back for the Central Technical School football team and that they’d known one another “since we were in diapers.”
The long-time pals had agreed by text to meet at the Bailey home that afternoon for a few hours of channel-surfing and gaming. “He had Black Ops and Madden NFL on XBox. That was all we were planning to get up to.”
When he heard Tyson may have been involved in the shooting, the friend rushed to St. Michael’s.
“I was praying the whole way that it wasn’t him, but then I got the bad news,” he said.
“We grew up playing Raptorball [youth basketball] together. He was always selective with his friends. He’s not one to get into trouble like this. I’m thinking it was a mistaken identity.”
Police found shell casings at the crime scene. By late Friday, they had extended the area under investigation to a new playground and parts of a neighbouring construction zone behind the building and appeared to be scouring the thin snow-cover for evidence.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle7532822/

[Tropicana]

So Wahalla, when I say that whenever I travel to Malaysia, there seems to be racial harmony, I guess it helps to see what I am comparing it to. Children "not mixing" vs children ending up in hospital or dead.

Seems like peace and harmony to me....in comparison

[Wahalla]

When it's hundreds of children fighting along ethnic lines...and some of them end up in hospital. I am going through Wahalla's comments and the article bit by bit. A point was made about children "not mixing" I am putting this in perspective and comparing it to what happens in North America. My point is that what is going on here is a lot worse.

Still trying to find the articles about the tensions between Jamaican and Somali teens in Toronto which has resulted in some deaths. I trust that will be a dramatic enough barometer for you jah_yout. Searching for them, I stumbled on the recent incident in Minnesota.

again this is not comparable to Malaysia to Toronto... Malaysia is more subtle.....more African sensibility....

Yes all alot of Hotels have Spas in them... the one I stayed in Damansara I wont name had the Gym by the Spa.. I went to the gym with regularity.. it led to interesting conversations with the sex workers... u learn a lot about a country from sex workers....(for the record I dont indulge in sex with sex workers but over the years I have had alot of conversations with them) Jesus was known to speak with sex workers in his time that I understand...

Y are there no Bumi sex workers in Malaysia is a interesting question... given they are supposed to be at the bottom of the social scale...? But there are local chinese ?

[jah_yout]

So Wahalla, when I say that whenever I travel to Malaysia, there seems to be racial harmony, I guess it helps to see what I am comparing it to. Children "not mixing" vs children ending up in hospital or dead.

Seems like peace and harmony to me.

so unless you witness rioting & violence firsthand as soon as you land that means there is peace & harmony???

[Wahalla]

So Wahalla, when I say that whenever I travel to Malaysia, there seems to be racial harmony, I guess it helps to see what I am comparing it to. Children "not mixing" vs children ending up in hospital or dead.

Seems like peace and harmony to me.

Yet given the growth of the economy, high educational achievement there are still a lot of young Non Bumiputara Malaysians emigrating....