Speaking of Mandela, what do people think of Winnie?

[Tropicana]

advocating necklace fe infarmers latt aff dancehall music out deh bout infarmers. necklace ting iss bout da communitee tandards?

Are you for real?

allegedlee invalved nuttinn proven so nah condemn ar fe a ting

so shi didd nuttinn wrang

Nothing proven...are you flippin kidding me?

On 14 May 1991 Winnie Nomzamo Mandela was sentenced to six years for her 'complicity' in the kidnapping and beating of four youths, one of whom, 14-year-old Stompie Moeketsi Seipei, was later found dead. The actual crime was committed by her 'thuggish' bodyguards, the 'Mandela United Football Club'. Winnie Mandela was released on bail pending an appeal. She would, eventually, only receive a fine for her role in the crime.The heavy sentence was unexpected since Winnie Mandela was only found guilty of conspiracy to kidnap and accessory after the fact to assault.
On passing sentence Mr Justice Michael Stahl Stegmann said she was an "unblushing and unprincipled liar" and that although she had not been a participant in the kidnapping and beatings, she had shown a "complete absence of compassion for the victims"

winnie is a heroine

If it were your 14 year old child would you be saying that?

Then in de end you claim tse you noh drink Koolaid.

[Tropicana]

[Tropicana]

JOHANNESBURG December 3 1997 - SAPA

STOMPIE KILLED ON WINNIE'S ORDERS TO COVER UP ASSAULTS, TRC TOLD

Stompie Seipei was killed on Winnie Madikizela-Mandela's instructions to prevent the Mandela "crisis committee" discovering how badly the Mandela United Football Club had assaulted four youths they had abducted from the Soweto Methodist Manse, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission heard on Wednesday.Former club "coach" Jerry Richardson testified that Madikizela-Mandela decided to kill Seipei to cover up what had happened.
The Mandela crisis committee, made up of church, community and ANC leaders, was formed to secure the release of four boys, including Seipei, who were abducted from Methodist minister Paul Verryn's manse in late December 1988.
"I slaughterd him (Seipei) like a goat," Richardson said, as Seipei's mother, Joyce, left the hearing hall in tears.
Richardson said he abducted Seipei on Madikizela-Mandela's instructions after Verryn was falsely accused of sodomising the boys.
Richardson was led through his testimony by his lawyer, Tony Richards (correct).
Richardson said: "I killed Stompie under instructions of Mami (Madikizela-Mandela)."
He said he and another football club member, "Slash", went to look for a place where they could kill Seipei. They decided on a rocky patch of ground near a railway line in Noordgesig, Soweto.
Richardson said the plan to kill Seipei, several days after the abduction and assault, had to be postponed because a lot of visitors, including the crisis committee, kept coming to Madikizela-Mandela's house.
Richardson said the visitors included former South African Council of Churches' secretary-general Frank Chikane.
Richardson said Madikizela-Mandela hid him (Richardson) so the visitors could not speak to him.
"Mami was concerned the crisis committee would discover the presence of the youth in her yard," Richardson added.
He said Seipei was more severely beaten than the other three youths because Madikizela-Mandela accused him of being an impimpi (police informer).
"Stompie was tortured so severely... I could see he would ultimately die," Richardson said.
He said Madikizela-Mandela had participated in the beating, punching the youths with her fist. The youths were later sjambokked and lifted into the air and dropped onto the concrete floor.
Richardson said the football club had tortured youths in "horrible, brutal ways... in the manner used to torture freedom-fighters (by the police)".
A few days later, Richardson and "Slash" took Seipei to the site in Noordgesig they had chosen. Richardson said he had to help Seipei walk because "he was very sick and very weak".
When they reached the site, Richardson said he made Seipei lie on his back and separated a pair of garden shears.
He said he stabbed Seipei in the neck. "I put the shears through Stompie's neck. They went to the back... It was a stabbing motion, not a cutting motion," Richardson said when asked precisely how he had killed Seipei. He pointed to behind his right ear as he spoke.
On Tuesday, senior state pathologist Dr Patricia Klepp said that during her autopsy of Seipei's body, she found two stab marks behind Seipei's right ear and a larger stab mark on the left side of his neck.
On Wednesday Richardson said "Slash" made cutting motions with his half of the garden shears, because he wanted to make sure Seipei was dead.
He said they waited for a long time to make sure Seipei was dead. "We told ourselves we were committing the perfect crime."
They then washed their clothes in a nearby river and returned to Madikizela-Mandela's house, placing the garden shears back in the garage.

http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/media/1997/9712/s971203f.htm

[blugiant]

Are you for real?


Nothing proven...are you flippin kidding me?





If it were your 14 year old child would you be saying that?

Then in de end you claim tse you noh drink Koolaid.

yess fii real. tropi mii neva figgit wen mii watch hotel rwanda ann da movie tart out widd da radio ting dat dey were collabaratars

da court dat convicted winnie was biased ann dat trial was bout discredittinn ann demonizinn winnie. dem neva ave no rite fe trii winnie ann dat judge showed bias

imm wood natt be infarmer

[blugiant]

y dem doan chatt bout wat mandela didd ann dat de reason dem smearinn winnie iss fe justifii oyinbo supremacee

[Tropicana]

Excuse me...the witnesses were BLACK not WHITE!!

[Tropicana]

I suppose you and the other Koolaid Krew members are going to say they dubbed her and she didn't say this.

[Emperah]

Excuse me...the witnesses were BLACK not WHITE!!

and blk ppl cyaan be bought, ar sell out?

[Tropicana]

[blugiant]

and blk ppl cyaan be bought, ar sell out?

dem blakks were scared aff oyinbo so dem bow ann cyaan be trusted

given furdar legitimacee to gasoline ann matches

[blugiant]

yuh mean yuh tekk da propaganda video made de oyinbo supremacist dat cantrol ann runned da aparthied system ann try fe give itt creedence

winnie was ann iss a greater warrior aff ar peeps dan nelson

I suppose you and the other Koolaid Krew members are going to say they dubbed her and she didn't say this.

[blugiant]

Excuse me...the witnesses were BLACK not WHITE!!

garvey sed "I have no desire to take all black people back to Africa; there are blacks who are no good here and will likewise be no good there."

[Tropicana]

You are unbelievable blu. You were thousands upon thousands of miles away no where near South Africa yet you know for a fact that ALL the black witnesses were bough off.



I don't business whether is propoganda film or propoganda film not. All I am focusing on is what Winnie is saying. She advocated necklacing and in another segment spoke of using matches...also referring to necklacing. That is the only part of the video that is of concern to me. I am not going to waste hours trying to find another video quoting her. You heard what she did and so did I and anyone else listening to the video. She was supporting necklacing and you are supporting her.

Totally unreal.

[Wahalla]

How quickly people forget ????????????

Winnie is the Warrior..u think the innocent dotn die in war ? ask the French killed by allies in world war II targetted deliberately ????......Was winnies violence nihilistic ? or part of an overall directed strategy aimed at the over throw of apartheid ????

And was there agents of apartheid spying on the lady ? What was expected a did she kill in order preserve and prevent...

I make no excuses but to apply a morality to a context where the protagonist is literally fighting to preserve not only her sanity but carried for a decade single handily the fight to apartheid, seems disingenuous..... It seems forgotten in the 70s the ANC only internal resistance was Winnie. .Soweto was not an ANC actions the youths thought that the ANC was irrelevant... Except one person and one person alone.... Winnie......She was arrested humiliated, internally exiled, broken, isolated rejected by her own, surrounded by traitors and was bringing up children as a single mother. And by god she was proud....

I recall in the 70's alog side the reports of the Chimurenga in Zimbabwaye it was Winnie on the bbc is alone in court deported, arrested, humiluliated in public...you could hear the admiration of the BBC reporters...

I make no excuses, give no rationalisation for the lady.... She killed innocents imho..she got off because of the shame a nation felt at what they did to her... and the embarasment of her colleagues who watched and did not help her....and now they were both in talks....

Winnie fought the state alone.....she made mistakes and then in the hey day the time that everyone remembers of anti apartheid she got the resources... not the dark times when she alone and she was cut off by the ANC.....in exile in a barren Bantustan....

The truth and reconciliation committe was to get cathrasis and move on... Y not apply the same standards to Winnie as to her tormentors....????

i want devils defending me on the battle feild....and by god that ooman was fierce.....

My only complaint against winnie was that she could have been more discrete with her infidelities.....But that is personal .....

I have long given up being a revolutionary, but winnie is part of every revolutionary struggle the moment when morality is lost at the relization that to survive applied force a brutalisation of the soul is nessesary, ... they are there in every revoltutionary situation.. .when the winning side stepped out the polite center of fabian liberalism to the harshness of a brutal revolution... the place where idealism becomes cynical and flows red......Every revolution has a winnie... Che, Stalin, Kamo, Robespierre, Giap,

But as charlene davis put it

there is a woman fighting for freedom down in Africa
in prison is her distinguished husband nelson mandela
her natural beauty is like the rising sun
in a matter of time botha will be gone
so rise up sister
rise



what is ironic Mandela sings kill a Boer and is a national hero......an inconvenient truth.....History is not neat fairly tales and paletable myths... Histroy is Winnie..imprefect.. human.....

Here is a anti Mandela propoganda film with mandela silent but fist raised in solidarity...... undeniable...


singing Hambe Kahke the fighting song of umkonto we sizwe

Hamba Kahle.
Hamba kahle mkhonto.
Wemkhonto
Mkhonto wesizwe
Thina Bantu bomkhonto sizímisele
Ukuwabulala
Wona lamabhulu

Safe journey spear
Yes spear
Spear of the nation
We, the members of Umkhonto are determined
To kill These Boers (Pollard 99).

where unno tink the spear was making the journey to but into another human body....

Umkonto we Sizwe may have been a spear... But Winnie was the reluctant point and edge.......

Nelson Mandela created an army to kill main destroy for poltical reason... and compared to Zanla, MPLA, FLNA ZANU they were incompetent and ineffective ....Winnie took the weapons of the weak created a counter inteligence paramilitary entity to defend her... it was terror for poltical reasons... just like MK was violence for poltical goals.....

if unno wanted a chrisitan winnie then look not to Winnie the seacond wife or Graca the third .... look to the first wife.... a Jehovah Witness with their atttidude it does not matter wauit for god_

[Tropicana]

Finally the voice of reason. A refreshing change from the hive mind of the Kooolaid Kollective.

I make no excuses, give no rationalisation for the lady.... She killed innocents imho..she got off because of the shame a nation felt at what they did to her... and the embarasment of her colleagues who watched and did not help her....and now they were both in talks....

Winnie fought the state alone.....she made mistakes and then in the hey day the time that everyone remembers of anti apartheid she got the resources... not the dark times when she alone and she was cut off by the ANC.....in exile in a barren Bantustan....

My only complaint against winnie was that she could have been more discrete with her infidelities.....But that is personal .....

Well said. She is human and made some key mistakes. I have complaints against her on both counts and she should have been held accountable for the deaths of the innocent youths....at lest 3.

She did make a strong contribution and no one can take away from her legacy in that regard.

If you look at a young woman marrying a much older man, raising a family on her own, enduring persecution, and going through the horror and humiliation of exile....not even her basic feminine needs were attended to..... I don't think anyone else would have emerged with her strength.