Why does god allow natural disasters...?

[rudemonk]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john macarthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...That's really not the question. The question is what kind of a God lets anybody live?
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wow.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john macarthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We know God is holy and righteous and we know the wages of sin is death, and we deserve to die. The soul that sins, it shall die. The fact that we take another breath is because God is merciful. It's the patience and forbearance of God leading us to repentance.
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this person needs to understand logical discourse. God loses patience then? Why doesn't he give people an equal chance to experience this mercy, an equal opportunity to repent?

Slaughtered children with their heads bashed in have no chance. Where is God's mercy?

This gentleman is not addressing the question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You see, history works this way, we all deserve to die.
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Statements such as these by those who title themselves believers, causes me to wonder how they cherry pick their bible so.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But instead, God lets us live and really live, you know, we live, we love, we laugh, we enjoy all the blessings of life in all its richness. What's that about? It's showing you the patience and forbearance of God, the kindness of God, the compassion of God with the intent of leading you to repentance. It's time to repent. It's giving you opportunity.
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sadly, too many people, and way too many animals, have no such opportunity or experience of God's 'mercy.'

if man fell by choosing to sin, why make animals suffer, who are truly innocent.

again, evolution shows the facts of the matter.

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Like Vannie said we live we die.
Don't you understand its not the primordial slime thats important. Its the spirit within thats the real life no matter how long we prolong the earth one day it will crumble and pass.

True life is not in this dull matter luminous beings we are as Yoda would put it.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Two natures lie within my breast
One is foul the other blessed
The one I love the one I hate
The one I feed it dominates </span></span>

The origins issue is important but more important is the resurrection issue.The origins life died at Eden Lost.

<span style="font-weight: bold">True life is was and always will be in the word</span>.
This is the light that lighteth ever man that comes into world.
In him is life and the life is the light of men.
Without that light we are dead no matter how many heart stems you replace.

True life eternal life is in Christ. Its not the heart stem that must be replaced its the heart condition that must be changed from a dead heart of Stone to a living hope in Christ by the application of the word.

You are still old school with origins the full 100 is the new birth from calvary onwards.

[mountaingal]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

interesting discussion. i'm reading from asia, where i'm visiting with my cousin, a christian missionary. she has asked me to explain sin, but i haven't asked her to explain why god allows natural disasters, because thanks to jamaicans.com i have a sense of the answer i'd get, lol.

[rudemonk]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

if you or someone you loved was in need of a new heart valve, would you accept the science that delivered you that valve?

because that same science that builds the new heart valve, proves there was no eden, and no fall, therefore, no reason for god to sacrifice himself to himself- not that that ever made any sense anyway. so look to Jesus yes, but forget the myth.

of course it would no longer be convenient or comfortable, religiously, when this realization sets in, as it must eventually.

[rudemonk]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting discussion. i'm reading from asia, where i'm visiting with my cousin, a christian missionary. she has asked me to explain sin, but i haven't asked her to explain why god allows natural disasters, because thanks to jamaicans.com i have a sense of the answer i'd get, lol.
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hey mgee! you get that info about Thailand I PM'd you?

[mountaingal]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

don't have a pm from u on that, monk. i think u gave me an answer directly in the thread. all is well.

[Mutty]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

To address the opening question, let me turn to the bible for those who are more inclined to pay attention if the bible is being used.

I find it quite interesting that when Jesus was [apparently] asked a similar question, he completely bypassed a direct answer and diverted the attention to those asking the question. In the book of Luke (13), he was asked about some people who killed in a massacre by Pontius Pilate. Clearly the people were asking a similar question as the one in the topic title. &quot;Jesus, do you think those people killed by Pilate died because they were bad? Make some sense of why this happened to them?&quot; Jesus does not answer them as to the WHY. All he does is tell them that the people who died were no worse than those asking the question and that they (those asking the questions) should watch their back lest a similar fate befalls them.

What I get from this is that Jesus admits that life sucks. Bad things can happen to good people as well as bad people. There is no rhyme or reason and he does not implicate any god in the matter which I find interesting since he was supposed to be god himself according to some people's theology.

So what if Jesus said, &quot;it's all part of god's master plan whether you understand it or not&quot; (which is what some Christians say), how would he have sounded and of course, it would have created far more questions than answers which is exactly what modern day Christian theology does hence this topic.

[Peasie]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

I appreciate this

[Mutty]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appreciate this </div></div>

What do you appreciate about 'this?'

[Peasie]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

dis.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I get from this is that Jesus admits that life sucks. Bad things can happen to good people as well as bad people. There is no rhyme or reason and he does not implicate any god in the matter which I find interesting since he was supposed to be god himself according to some people's theology.</div></div>

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I get from this is that Jesus admits that life sucks. Bad things can happen to good people as well as bad people. There is no rhyme or reason and he does not implicate any god in the matter which I find interesting since he was supposed to be god himself according to some people's theology.</div></div>

Mutty,

Thats taking an artistic license with the topic if i may say.

Like Vannie pointed out in her long exposition of this event The discourse started in Luke 11 continued in Luke 12 and concluded in Luke 13.

<span style="color: #990000">Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; <span style="font-weight: bold">for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom</span>.</span>

More correct to say life sucks according to Jesus when you dont place God first for its his pleasure to provide here the and there.

As for the discussion about the two tragedies Its Jesus who adds to the story the plight of the men of Gallilee.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, <span style="color: #990000">Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. </span>

[evanovitch]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Mi read all a dis n wonda y u bodda wid di tenk u fi di crass tread ..

[Mutty]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

Accepted you are simply proving my point by posting the scripture again. Jesus does NOT answer their question. The content clues suggests that he was asked the age old question of &quot;why do bad things happen to innocent people?&quot; He does not answer the question, instead he just tells them they better be careful the same fate does not befall them so it is better to repent (just in case).

If Jesus (as god - allegedly) does not answer one of the most enduring questions of all time then that really sucks, does it not?

Now, Christians will tell you that &quot;god is in control,&quot; right? Well if he is in control, why does he allow disasters that kill people to happen? This Haiti quake has prompted this question over and over again and I have heard all kinds of problematic responses from Christians (keep in mind Jesus avoids the question). I've seen Christians trying to find some logic filtered through their theology and they are ALL fraught with issues. Since they believe god is in control and he is just, then such disasters must be a result of some wrong on the part of those who die because, it would be unfair for god to just kill people for no sane reason. Those who do not dare go there admit ignorance but it leaves their all-powerful and all-knowing god out there for ridicule because he supposedly has all power in his hands but finds it necessary to crush little children under stone or drown families with sea water. For what? Why?

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

You didn't read Vannie's post Mutty.

We live by the Mercy of God, our every day of existense violates his Holy, Nature.

But for his Mercy and the calling us to accept the Grace offered by Jesus Christ, he suffers us to live.

Each time there's a disaster of a personal or catastropic nature men will question God and blame him even those that are ambivilent to his existence.

Its as though the Knowledge of God is hardwired into our consciousness and we cannot but acknowledge his existense when oursenses are overwhelmed by events outside our control.

The very fact that blame is assigned is a grudging acceptance to our belief in God.

That we can deny him gives more to the awesomeness of God .

<span style="font-weight: bold">First</span> as Hebrews points out that he suffers us to live when every act of defiance of the Angels is treated with immediate reccompence.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Second</span> that he allows us to deny and defy him, which the angels cannot do hence the querrie by the angel What is man that you care for him so.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Third</span> that after a life of defiance he will accept us if we but repent. Something he does not do for the angels.


How can we escape punishment if we reject so great salvation?

How can we dis him as a malevolent God?

[Mutty]

Re: Why does god allow natural disasters...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You didn't read Vannie's post Mutty.

We live by the Mercy of God, our every day of existense violates his Holy, Nature.

But for his Mercy and the calling us to accept the Grace offered by Jesus Christ, he suffers us to live.

Each time there's a disaster of a personal or catastropic nature men will question God and blame him even those that are ambivilent to his existence.

Its as though the Knowledge of God is hardwired into our consciousness and we cannot but acknowledge his existense when oursenses are overwhelmed by events outside our control.

The very fact that blame is assigned is a grudging acceptance to our belief in God.

That we can deny him gives more to the awesomeness of God .

<span style="font-weight: bold">First</span> as Hebrews points out that he suffers us to live when every act of defiance of the Angels is treated with immediate reccompence.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Second</span> that he allows us to deny and defy him, which the angels cannot do hence the querrie by the angel What is man that you care for him so.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Third</span> that after a life of defiance he will accept us if we but repent. Something he does not do for the angels.


How can we escape punishment if we reject so great salvation?

How can we dis him as a malevolent God?
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All of that you are saying does not answer the initial question, Accepted. Why does god (assuming he exists) allow disasters that kill people without regard to who or what they are?