Letter From Christian Guys...

[Ephratahe]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coolbeans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ephra

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/inlove1.gif[/img] (platonic, sisterly)


*tiptoe out* </div></div>

Cools!!! Whaddup??!!! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_hug.gif[/img]

(so what, you can't stay likkle bit longer?)

[7777]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

a wha cools a do over ya soh??...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

[Compry]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ephra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now this is really funny. So are you suggesting that the young lady is forcing you to look so to speak? That after merely one glance, you can't stop yourself from looking thereafter? Isn't it you who choose what goes in your mouth at this point? You choose what the mind dwells on. You choose what the heart cherishes. And after that initial glance and you find that this may be a stumbling block to you, then you should make the conscious decision not to look again.

And allow me to make this clear once more - I do not condone the contemporary fashion trends that I see within the church, but to say that it's the sister's fault alone is a blatant lie as demonstrated in James. Sure the sister is responsible for what she wears, but YOU will be held responsible for your reaction.

You speak of doing simple things to help each other out, and I already stated what can be done in terms of the young lady. I remember a similar post a while back regarding this very same topic, and I speculated that perhaps it was more an emotional/psychological reason why some women choose to dress a certain way. But you won't know that unless you know the heart of the individual. And knowing the heart requires spending time with said person and getting to know them from a godly perspective (and not merely from one glance or a few covert glances). It's a pity that not many of us are willing to invest the time, yet we are quick to cast the first stone, whether deserved or not. Simply put, I have found that the closer one draws to God, the more it reflects in their attitude and outer man. Have you ever stopped to question why, if the sister has been in the church for a very long time, she chooses to dress that way? And how, if her church commitment has been relatively new and brief, can you or some other member work with the sister to get her to where she may desire to be in the Lord? And don't think that these are spur of the moment conclusions for me, for they aren't. I've arrived at said conclusions after years of watching young women in the church being treated with varying degrees of scorn or ridicule because of the way they're dressed, then speaking with 1 or 2 of these young ladies so that I can better understand them (1 Cor. 8; 1 Thess. 5:14).

What amazes me, PDB, is not the fact that someone can sit down and write out said concerns, then have 'responses like these', but the fact that we are unable to call sin by it's right name - whether the sin is being committed by a 'harlot' or by an 'upstanding Christian brother'. That though we preach of a compassionate, merciful, and loving Christ who cherishes believers yet metes out justice to sinners, we neglect to remember that justice/judgement is also reserved for the people of God. And that before we knew Christ, we ourselves were once sinners, yet Christ could make the decision to die for us even in our sinful state (Rom. 5:7-8). That's what is most amazing to me.

I'm sure that when we stand before our Maker explaining away our foibles, most men will revert to Adam's excuse (though they haven't failed to condemn him for this excuse over the years) - "Lord, the woman that You gave me...". That's seriously food for thought...

And thanks for the reminder that God is watching. My sins are ever before me, thus I take comfort in the knowledge that I can boldly approach His throne of grace to obtain mercy in my time of need. God's best to you. </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iluvu.gif[/img] In a purely Christian sisterly manner that is.

[Mutty]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

I lust freely and often and I thank the lord for this wonderful gift.

[Compry]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I lust freely and often and I thank the lord for this wonderful gift. </div></div>

Ha. Are you saying that you don't blame women for your lustful desires?

[Tropicana]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> . I have found that who they actually chase and marry are those who dress in skimpy clothing and who "PUT OUT". </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and in every church, there will always be one or two..
but u know u haffe discern those inna wolves clothing..
Think bout dis, cus I would..
when she start bellydancing har way elsewhere, </div></div>

You mean belly dancing out a street wid one next man [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] I nearly puke the day he announced their engagement at the Bible study. I was SO angry. I came that night and did my first of many threads about blonde belly dancers. I was TICKED. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad2.gif[/img]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">will he then think of the way in which he got her...(by the revealing clothes and de putting out)...
or will he be thinking that he should have gone the right way, and choosen someone else..
Lawd missis..
Life ruff eh?...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70394-bawlout.gif[/img] </div></div>

I will be the first one to say SERVE YOU RIGHT! I won't be polite about it either. I wonder if they are still married or if de dolly house mash up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
wha me wonder a whe de church mothers inna fe u church? All dis ya woulda never be allowed whe me come from, but times have changed..</div></div>

Not my church. A church in the GTA that has one of the largest population of SINGLES in the area. They now have about 5 locations. Their teaching pastor is fantastic but the congregation isn't listening. I used to go there for Bible study and socials but I haven't been in years. I recently spoke to an Indian (East) guy who goes there and married a blonde. She had a baby recently. I asked him if the downtown church had more diversity....hear him:

"No there are even more blondes with big tits there and you know how I LOVE that." This coming from a married man with a wife and baby at home. He organizes Bible studies for business leaders and young professionals in the downtown core.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Dutty stinkin set a hypocrites </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but be happy, u never get one of those hi-po-crites..[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] </div></div>

True true.

[Mutty]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I lust freely and often and I thank the lord for this wonderful gift. </div></div>

Ha. Are you saying that you don't blame women for your lustful desires? </div></div>

I've practically been saying that all throughout the thread. You all can wear whatever you all want. I'll just sit and watch and think pleasant thoughts. I don't have any fear I'm upsetting some imaginary person out there somewhere.

[Tropicana]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, contrary to what some think, Christianity, properly understood, doesn't advocate the subjugation of women. We like our ladies dressing classy AND modestly [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img] </div></div>

Then why do they run down the women dressed in skimpy clothes and showing cleavage? Beloved and I have both done threads about this in the past.

[Tropicana]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I lust freely and often and I thank the lord for this wonderful gift. </div></div>

Ha. Are you saying that you don't blame women for your lustful desires? </div></div>

I've practically been saying that all throughout the thread. You all can wear whatever you all want. I'll just sit and watch and think pleasant thoughts. I don't have any fear I'm upsetting some imaginary person out there somewhere. </div></div>

Mutty, you are an admitted pagan so the only person who will hod you accountable ultimately is God whether or not you believe in him. I don't really have a problem with non-religious guys being lustful as I EXPECT that from them. When a guy claims to be Christian and when he is in a leadership position, there is no excuse for it.

[Mutty]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mutty, you are an admitted pagan so the only person who will hod you accountable ultimately is God whether or not you believe in him. I don't really have a problem with non-religious guys being lustful as I EXPECT that from them. When a guy claims to be Christian and when he is in a leadership position, there is no excuse for it. </div></div>

As if men don't have enough issues already, they go give themselves yet another, one where they create a fight with a battle few can ever win. They create guilt because they feel they are pissing off some invisible deity that supposedly created them that way - visually stimulated.

[7777]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

oh de pagan way sweet to the pagan sah...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] and him/she will find anyway fe defend it...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]..[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[Mutty]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh de pagan way sweet to the pagan sah...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] and him/she will find anyway fe defend it...[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]..[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] </div></div>

Praise gawd, dammit!

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

Monk raises an interesting POV.
That men are hardwired to react at the sight of a pretty girl.

He also makes an assertion that God made us this way.

Gary Chapman in his book the five love languages begins by examining the purpose of romantic love in the survival of the species.
Looking at the psychology of romantic passion which is said to peak eighteen months to two years, he quoted from a famed psychologist that romantic passion is but a euphoric mechanism to ensure the swooping of genetic material to ensure conception by which time the needs of the newborn child further bonds the couple together, (or not).
Simply put romantic love is a mechanism by which we are tricked into momentarily giving up our primary selfish needs to focus on those of another for no other purpose than to procreate.

This means that love was not meant to be a forever thing and culture have devised ways to keep it so.

So lets see if the word agrees.
Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Ge 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Ge 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man

There was some physical desire for Eve from the time Adam saw her, call it admiration but the word love is not mentioned in the Bible until the Birth of Isaac, where it is said Abraham loved Isaac.
This does not mean love as a feeling did not exist, it merely meant it was not called that (love) until then.

Adam's need for Eve was described as a help meet but its here in Genesis that the prophetic leave and cleave was developed.
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Since Adam and Eve had no human parents the verse there is relating to future relationships.

I would like to posit here that this one flesh is what God did at the birth of Christ when he merged humanity to himself, merged man into the Godhead. As the act of merging male with female is to create a new human soul, the act of us merging with Jesus in baptism in his death and resurrection in the new birth creates a new spiritual soul.

There is one other aspect of this that is worth mention.

There was lust in man, even in Eden it was not a consequence of the fall.

Ge 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve coveted before the fall. She coveted the forbidden.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

This failed test to be enticed follows women throughout the bible, it has been used as justification to suppress them but its a sober reminder that women seem to be targets by the enemy to be used as seductive tests for men.
It seems this power of one flesh gives women a power over men which as Monk puts it we are hardwired to fall for.

[Diplomat]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is one other aspect of this that is worth mention.

There was lust in man, even in Eden it was not a consequence of the fall.

Ge 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve coveted before the fall. She coveted the forbidden.</div></div>
Just got back into town last night and am now catching up, but this caught my eye. I think we have to be careful here, as IMO, Eve's actions did not constitute lust as we understand it. Lust and desire are not the same thing. Lust is desire out of control, and I would argue that Eve made a rational decision that was not influenced by an out of control desire.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

This failed test to be enticed follows women throughout the bible, it has been used as justification to suppress them but its a sober reminder that women seem to be targets by the enemy to be used as seductive tests for men.

It seems this power of one flesh gives women a power over men which as Monk puts it we are hardwired to fall for. </div></div>
I can see the argument, but in using James - when it's obvious he's using the generic word 'man' for all 'mankind'- aren't we putting a square peg into a round hole?

[rudemonk]

Re: Letter From Christian Guys...

of course her decision was irrational to say the least- but at least we can say in her defense she had no idea of what the consequences of her desire actually were. it's important to remember in this version of the story she was tricked, her adversary played her due to her nature.

which God gave her.

why he did nothing to protect her from the evil he also allowed to set itself against her is beyond me...