WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

**Diplomat** · 07-29-2008, 11:06 AM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My only encouragement to them is that they never abandon their common sense when it comes to deities. </div></div>
What's the relationship between common sense and belief in deities/God? </div></div>

In my opinion the two seem to rarely meet, if ever. This is why "faith" is often needed to force the logical mind to accept things common sense would otherwise say is pure nonsense. </div></div>
If you put it that way, then a lot of what we take for granted in the various sciences could also be termed nonsense because of the leap of faith required to accept them. Yet we don't do that. Why is it possible to embrace faith as a concept in the scientific realm, yet dismiss it as a part of a religious experience? Is a person's individual bias a part of the cause?

**Compry** · 07-29-2008, 11:08 AM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

Mutty, we often see folks who do not believe in God turn to Him or ask for prayer in a major crisis. Do you believe it's also possible for someone who had a close personal relationship with God to quickly turn away from Him due to a major crisis?

**heretic** · 07-29-2008, 11:32 AM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you put it that way, then a lot of what we take for granted in the various sciences could also be termed nonsense because of the leap of faith required to accept them. Yet we don't do that. Why is it possible to embrace faith as a concept in the scientific realm, yet dismiss it as a part of a religious experience? Is a person's individual bias a part of the cause? </div></div>Since this is not my thread I'll ignore this comment.

**Ephratahe** · 07-29-2008, 12:16 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mutty!!!!</span>

**Diplomat** · 07-29-2008, 12:46 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you put it that way, then a lot of what we take for granted in the various sciences could also be termed nonsense because of the leap of faith required to accept them. Yet we don't do that. Why is it possible to embrace faith as a concept in the scientific realm, yet dismiss it as a part of a religious experience? Is a person's individual bias a part of the cause? </div></div>Since this is not my thread I'll ignore this comment. </div></div>
Thank you; the question is to Mutty based on his response to my previous question.

**Mutty** · 07-29-2008, 04:16 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Mutty,

I wonder if there was there any topic or issue that nagged away in your consciousness when you were a believer that just never got resolved? </div></div>

Prayer. One of the bigger lies and waste of time.

**Mutty** · 07-29-2008, 04:25 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and further to that, what was it that broke the camel's back, where you were just like, that's it. I'm done, over and out.</div></div>

A re-reading of the story of Job. Like man Christians I am sure, I never really digested the beginning of this story. I was faced with two problems.

1) Is this the way God treats his children; turns them over to his enemy to take a beating to lease his ego?

2) If the story is actually true, who was in heaven to record the conversation between God and Satan and why did it sound like the story was missing a "once upon a time" line at the very start of the story?

Clearly the latter undermines the notion there really is a God or even a Satan and that this story was more an object lesson/explanation of why good people suffer and nothing more.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and do you think there is anything that could happen which might cause you to take another look. </div></div>

Hell no! That was a waste of some good years. There is far more evidence against then for now that I can be more objective and not lost in a cloud of faith.

**Mutty** · 07-29-2008, 04:35 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Mutty

My only encouragement to them is that they never abandon their common sense when it comes to deities. </div></div>
What's the relationship between common sense and belief in deities/God? </div></div>

In my opinion the two seem to rarely meet, if ever. This is why "faith" is often needed to force the logical mind to accept things common sense would otherwise say is pure nonsense. </div></div>
If you put it that way, then a lot of what we take for granted in the various sciences could also be termed nonsense because of the leap of faith required to accept them. Yet we don't do that. Why is it possible to embrace faith as a concept in the scientific realm, yet dismiss it as a part of a religious experience? Is a person's individual bias a part of the cause?

Given the choice, I just prefer to hang my hat on conclusions that at came about because of experiments, analysis and observations to draw said conclusions or at least a reasonable theory as opposed to just believing "by faith" without benefit of those three things. The rest of my life is often governed that way so it is not as if I am breaking with the norm to do something completely out of the ordinary.

**Mutty** · 07-29-2008, 04:38 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mutty, we often see folks who do not believe in God turn to Him or ask for prayer in a major crisis. Do you believe it's also possible for someone who had a close personal relationship with God to quickly turn away from Him due to a major crisis? </div></div>

Yes...it might not happen overnight (it rarely does), but it CAN and DOES happen.

**Mutty** · 07-29-2008, 04:47 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does the notion that there might exist, in some remote nook or cranny of the universe, a corner case god that you didn't know about and couldn't have known about, have to do with how you live your life on a practical day to day basis? </div></div>

Not a damn thing heretic. An acknowledgment of my lack of omniscience has no bearing on how I live my life in relation to this lack. There is NO God I know of or any agenda he, she, it has that I am aware of that I should follow. Whatever it is that might be out there is clearly holding its corner and I am holding mine.

**Compry** · 07-29-2008, 05:31 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mutty, we often see folks who do not believe in God turn to Him or ask for prayer in a major crisis. Do you believe it's also possible for someone who had a close personal relationship with God to quickly turn away from Him due to a major crisis? </div></div>

Yes...it might not happen overnight (it rarely does), but it CAN and DOES happen. </div></div>

Thank you. No further questions from me...<span style="font-style: italic">I think</span>.

**Sandie90** · 07-29-2008, 06:49 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

Hey Mutty,
Long time no chat...see that you are in the middle of a bacchanal as usual!

SR..curious question below...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
5. What advice would you give to someone who found themselves in a crisis of faith?
</div></div>

Not sure what you are trying to get at here? As a non believer I could not advise anyone suffering a crisis of faith.. (other than go talk to someone that has some).. if they want to keep on believing.

DC · 07-29-2008, 06:49 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are YOUR thoughts on the concept of hope? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whose concept are we speaking about here?</div></div>

Yours. Based on where you are now. I am thinking it would be different from the christian' s concept of hope

Thanks for your responses Mutty..U r a trooper!
</div></div>

Still not getting you S.R. Hope in what? Are you referring to the Christian concept of hope in the afterlife? </div></div>

No, No Mutty..Let me break it down for ya...There was a time when you could describe hope from the spiritual aspect. However, I know hope, in a religious context, is foreign to you at this point because spiritual awareness is non-existent. Now, this is something you may or may not have thought about in your journey from religious to non-religious. I just wondered if you have ever cconsidered what is your concept of hope in your current thought processes as it relates to your daily life or life in general. Hope does not have to be spiritually or belief based..so it is in this context I am asking you to help me understand how this would fit now in your daily life-if you have given it any thought. A little clearer? Clear as mud?

DC · 07-29-2008, 06:54 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShellyBelle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Mutty,
Long time no chat...see that you are in the middle of a bacchanal as usual!

SR..curious question below...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
5. What advice would you give to someone who found themselves in a crisis of faith?
</div></div>

Not sure what you are trying to get at here? As a non believer I could not advise anyone suffering a crisis of faith.. (other than go talk to someone that has some).. if they want to keep on believing. </div></div>

Hey Shellye..Long time no see. Where you been hiding?

Anyways, not sure if you know what's going on, but this is a 'Mutty special' so to speak, and so all questions in this thread are directed towards Mutty. But we can open a new thread with your question/comment if you would like to start a follow up discussion...

ETA: Oh I meant to say that CEW actually came up with that question. 1st set of questions are from both moderators...

**Sandie90** · 07-29-2008, 07:08 PM

Re: WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THR

Ooops...just read the notice on the FRP page..my bad!!

So Mutty...Just thought that it was interesting question to be asked of you to as a non-believer. Obviously you were okay with it, when you answered at 2am...

BTW, SR..thanks for the welcome back, don't get here as often as I'd like.

WELCOME...MUTTY!! ...THE Why I Believe(or Don't)....THREAD

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