Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comforting

[rudemonk]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=monk]


well if there is anything that is clear, people will resort to superstition and gentle brainwashing and cultural indoctrinations.

some pathetic segment of the population can not come to grips with the fact of evolution and literally believe their bible. ironically benefitting from advances in science strictly attributable to that which they choose not to believe in.

but anyway to each their own, it just sucks when those people shrouded in ignorance have an effect that is felt beyond their personal sphere.

a couple of these, maintained in a fleet...seems like sound policy to adopt. an ounce of prevention.



<span style="font-weight: bold">Just as how some pathetic segment of the planet cannot fathom that the Bible must be fulfilled</span>

How's that?

Leave people to believe what they want to belive or NOT believe...you are NO authority on anything, NO one is for that matter...the truth of the matter is, there is worse to come IMO...disasters that have the propensity to make this civilization EXTINCT...no matter how prepared a nation is...and the disaser might just be MANMADE.. like bio-terrorism for starters..*I* rest my case..


<span style="font-weight: bold">Que sera, sera....well unless we REPENT.. </span> </div></div>

well britisha, all due respect, but with a little studying it quickly becomes apparent how the bible has descended to us, and being an 'authority' on the subject is pretty easy.

unfortunately, it did not come to us in a fed ex package from God, so it's far from immune to criticism. and if people claim it should be followed, they should be able to defend their claims without spinning off into some self created sense of offense.

So there isn't any reason to place any more stake in what it claims- especially when we can logically deduce authoritatively, that a lot of the things it claims are not true, and were set down by people who were not really in touch with God, but were pretty frakking ignorant. You can't make animals breed offspring of different colors by showing them the color you want their kids to be while they're seeding each other, for example.

We also know a bit about the early Christian church, and learning more. So we know there were competing end times scenarios- in one of them Jesus pulls Peter aside and gives him the equivalent of a shhhhhhhhh....don't tell them this, but we all get in. but if they find out now, they won't behave.

This text was used by large segments of the early church, but then it got set aside for John's.

Nobody has ever once seen or measured God's influence on any piece of scripture to be worthy of belief or discarded as not what he meant. Why do we accept so easily that God wants to be so mysterious about things which are so important, are matters of eternal life and death in fact. Early Church communities often used several different gospels than the four canonicals- so what then, Jesus was okay with them being at jeopardy of hell and dying in faulty understanding for a couple hundred years or so? Come on.

I agree with you to a point, I don't particularly care what myths people follow or structure their culture and lives from- in fact I recognize that Myth is intrinsic and one of our most important vehicles for understanding and coming to grips with archetypal problems. I thoroughly enjoy the rich panoply of mythic and spiritual systems. But I do think a line should be drawn when people start to harm others, deny others self evident rights, etc, based on what are in essence unprovable fairy tales whch they irrationally and pathetically cling to. I don't think you consider the bible to be literal do you?

If you do I don't mean you any offense, but it's time to engage the scholarship which will free your mind from such superstition. I believe people have a moral duty to do so, and not contribute to the propagation of soft lies that often bear damaging fruit. The whole &quot;holy&quot; land comes to mind.

Should we all stand by while Hale Bop cult killed themselves? I don't think anyone would suggest that people who were through no fault of their own born into that cult or conditioned by that cult, should suffer so.

Do we stand by and let Jews and Moslems slaughter each other, or do we justify the Crusades or Holocausts because people were just believing in what they wanted to believe and should be left alone?

What about people who still think sickness and illness are caused by demons and devils that can be driven out, and when they aren't their kids die?

What about people who think Haiti made a pact with the devil and so they got their just due and shouldn't be helped...

[barosa]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BiziBubbla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, jamaica had its earthquake back in 16 sitten or nedda...mi sure smaddy else will come chat bout Port Royal.

When a jamaica time, is jamaica time... </div></div>nuh jus 1908 dem did have the earthquake? </div></div>
RichD, I may be splitting hairs but I believe it was 1907 when Kingston took the hit...
__________________________

It's not whether you win or lose, it's HOW you play the game.

[jah_yout]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BiziBubbla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, jamaica had its earthquake back in 16 sitten or nedda...mi sure smaddy else will come chat bout Port Royal.

When a jamaica time, is jamaica time... </div></div>nuh jus 1908 dem did have the earthquake? </div></div>

i could be mistaken but wasn't there a small one around '78?

[barosa]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BiziBubbla]Anyway, jamaica had its earthquake back in 16 sitten or nedda...mi sure smaddy else will come chat bout Port Royal.

When a jamaica time, is jamaica time... </div></div>nuh jus 1908 dem did have the earthquake? </div></div>
RichD, I may be splitting hairs but I believe it was 1907 when Kingston took the hit...


NB. Sorry RichD, you did corrected your prior date of the Kingston and Port Royal earthquake to 1907. I should have read the rest of postings..
_________________________

It's not whether you win or lose, it's HOW you play the game.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<span style="font-weight: bold">Disaster - The Earthquake of 1907</span>

MONDAY, JANUARY 14, 1907, 3:30 p.m. It was a regular day sunny and hot with a cloudless sky and what was said to be a faint breeze. At 3:32 p.m. the city of Kingston was busy enough all was alive and well. Suddenly there came the sound of a rushing, mighty wind, followed by the sound of a train roaring in a tunnel and the violent shaking of the earth so that men and buildings were tossed about like puppets. Screams split the air. Within 10-20 seconds a town of 46,000 had been rendered immobile hundreds lay dead or dying buried beneath mounds of rubble and dust. By 3:33 p.m. three shocks had been felt and every building in Kingston sustained some damage; many in the lower part of the city were destroyed.

Accounts of this catastrophe by Sir Frederick Treves and W. Ralph Hall Caine, both published in 1908, report solid brick walls bulging and collapsing, carriages being lifted and flung through the air, telegraph poles swaying like leaves in the wind, and great structures whether made of iron, wood or stone, crumbling. People were simply picked up and tossed while struggling to maintain their balance. More often than not they ended up resembling flailing pawns in an overturned chess game. Those individuals who managed to escape out onto the streets were quickly enveloped in a thick yellow fog punctuated by the sound of crackling and tumbling walls.

A residence in Kingston - Courtesy of the National Army Museum, London.


What many thought were heaps of dust were actually people trying to move in a city that had suddenly become foreign. Within twenty minutes fire blazed through the streets of Kingston and lasted for up to four days in many cases finishing off what the earthquake had started. It was also not long before rampant looting broke out and armed guards had to be posted throughout the city. At the public hospital, there was no way to cope with the number of wounded. At 3:30 on that fateful day there were some 200 patients in hospital, by 5:00 p.m. that number had risen to 800. According to W. Ralph Hall Caine, who observed much of the devastation from the Port Kingston, the ship on which he had sailed to the West Indies with numerous English businessmen, planters and parliamentarians, 'the sky was a brilliant constellation of glorious lights, the waters over which we passed, dark and awesome, rendered all the more forbidding by the human flotsam and jetsam (from which I must shut my eyes) floating idly on its surface for a ruined city'(p. 230).

Days later Kingston resembled a ghost town empty, silent, dark and broken. £2,000,000 of damage was assessed and over 800 people lost their lives. The Gleaner and the Jamaica Daily Telegraph published death tolls which were scanned by thousands searching for news of loved ones. Only a few received proper burial. Some were buried in large trenches in the May Pen Cemetery and some were burnt without ceremony.

Fortunately within the next few months there was no rain. In Kingston with many people forced to live in the open air, the fear that rain would lead to the outbreak of epidemics like typhoid, dysentery or even the plague was very real.

Assistance came from America, England and Cuba in the form of ships laden with provisions, extra surgeons and soldiers. Not all assistance was met with equal grace, however, as there was some concern, even in the face of such unmitigated disaster, that American troops could land on English soil. The idea of taking aid from the Americans apparently did not sit well with all. An American Admiral landed armed marines without the express sanction of Governor Swettenham who asked for their immediate removal. The Americans were insulted, the Governor forced to apologise and shortly afterward, he tendered his resignation. A relief committee was appointed to collect supplies of food and clothing and distribute temporary housing. Over a quarter of a million pounds of aid was sent from England.


Mico College after the earthquake.
Courtesy of the National Army Museum, London.

Hall Caine saw in this annihilation the chance for Kingston to rebuild, bigger and better than before another Kingston, further removed from the harbour, of broader streets and shaded boulevards. &quot;Kingston is not Jamaica,&quot; he wrote. &quot;Theirs is a land of singular beauty, of wood and water, a veritable tropical garden of inexhaustible richness, where anything and everything will grow and prosper. It is a land with a great past and a greater future: if her administrators at home, as well as abroad, will but read their lesson aright, and realize their opportunities today.&quot;

In May 1907, Governor Olivier began a tenure that lasted until 1913. Under his watch a new city rose from the ruins. The main public buildings on King Street and the public gardens as well as several new roads were built along a basic grid system. Unfortunately, these town planners clearly neither expected the city to grow as much as it did nor did they factor in the vagaries of vehicular traffic both of which have helped to render the city less than orderly.

In March 1957, fifty years later, another earthquake, the heaviest since 1907, struck the island. This time the western side was the most affected. Luckily, few lives were lost but there was severe property damage the St. James Parish Church was wrecked and in Port Royal a 180m long strip of coast disappeared beneath the sea.
Rebecca Tortello
Major earthquakes in Jamaica:
June 7, 1692 Port Royal destroyed.
August 28, 1712
August 28, 1722
October 20, 1744 Savanna-la-Mar destroyed, Kingston and
Port Royal badly damaged.
November 11, 1812
January 14, 1907 Kingston and Port Royal destroyed.
March 1, 1957: 8 on Richter scale epicenter Hanover.
Source :

January 13, 1993 #earthquake a moderate 5.4 magnitude Richter, was the last earth tremor to cause dead or serious property damage.

[rudemonk]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within <span style="font-weight: bold">10-20 seconds</span> a town of 46,000 had been rendered immobile hundreds lay dead or dying buried beneath mounds of rubble and dust. By 3:33 p.m. three shocks had been felt and every building in Kingston sustained some damage; many in the lower part of the city were destroyed.</div></div>

Thats what amazes me. An eyewitness calling in to NPR on a skype line and generator said this quake was about 30-40 seconds. Not even a minute and boom, Hiroshima.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within <span style="font-weight: bold">10-20 seconds</span> a town of 46,000 had been rendered immobile hundreds lay dead or dying buried beneath mounds of rubble and dust. By 3:33 p.m. three shocks had been felt and every building in Kingston sustained some damage; many in the lower part of the city were destroyed.</div></div>

Thats what amazes me. An eyewitness calling in to NPR on a skype line and generator said this quake was about 30-40 seconds. Not even a minute and boom, Hiroshima. </div></div>
They showed a school where on room was destroyed and the other was not. In the room that was not destroyed most of the bags and personal items were still at the desk of the occupants who manged to get out. The other room was pure chaos and bodies lying under the rubble.

[rudemonk]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within <span style="font-weight: bold">10-20 seconds</span> a town of 46,000 had been rendered immobile hundreds lay dead or dying buried beneath mounds of rubble and dust. By 3:33 p.m. three shocks had been felt and every building in Kingston sustained some damage; many in the lower part of the city were destroyed.</div></div>

Thats what amazes me. An eyewitness calling in to NPR on a skype line and generator said this quake was about 30-40 seconds. Not even a minute and boom, Hiroshima. </div></div>
They showed a school where on room was destroyed and the other was not. In the room that was not destroyed most of the bags and personal items were still at the desk of the occupants who manged to get out. The other room was pure chaos and bodies lying under the rubble. </div></div>

last night I saw a Haitian gentleman here in NY who was calling and calling his moms, finally got through to her, and she was buried under the rubble of their house, trapped.

if that is not a cruel mind job I don't know what is.

he pleaded with rescue workers to go search her out, her neighbors had gotten to her but her legs were broke and her and her granddaughter never could have made it.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">last night I saw a Haitian gentleman here in NY who was calling and calling his moms, finally got through to her, and she was buried under the rubble of their house, trapped.

if that is not a cruel mind job I don't know what is.

he pleaded with rescue workers to go search her out, her neighbors had gotten to her but her legs were broke and her and her granddaughter never could have made it. </div></div>

Wow so he actually got to speak with her before the rescuers did? I saw a little snippet while i was reading another story on WaPo where it said maybe we should have left he to die under the rubble.....the obvious conclusion was that someone was rescued only to suffer and die waiting for other assistance.
It is pretty grim what is taking place, that is why I say it time to get he ordinary folks away and let specialized rescue teams go to work.

There is one thing to be said about ancient hunter gathers if this this tragedy had happened to say paleo man Immediately the living would head for the hills, the women and girls would be dispersed to pick berries, make shelter and find water while the men would choose among themselves the few body pickers who methodically go searching for the wounded. The rest would go on a hunt for food and a more stable camp.

[rudemonk]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

yeah, he called and called and called and finally got through to her. they spoke and he immediately began a campaign to get rescuers to her by calling into radio shows and such. so a news crew went to the street and located the house- neighbors had dug her out, but because of her injuries she succumbed.

I mean some of the stories now, they are unimaginable.

Something similar happened to this guy. He dug his wife out but she died in his car. Kid still trapped in the rubble.
______________________________
Port-au-Prince, Haiti (CNN) -- Joel Rathon had two missions Friday: bury his wife and save his son.
It looked like he would be able to accomplish only one.
His 3-year-old son, his mother-in-law and two other relatives remained trapped in the rubble of their basement home at 63 Avenue Christophe in central Port-au-Prince. Rathon said he heard his son's voice Friday morning, nearly three days after Tuesday's 7.0-magnitude earthquake collapsed his home, and was desperate to reach him.
&quot;They shouldn't have to die this way,&quot; he said Friday afternoon, as he visited his wife's body at the Service de le Morgue Hueh.
He pleaded for help to get his relatives out of the rubble.
&quot;I don't have tools to do so many things,&quot; he says.
It's a plea heard throughout Port-au-Prince this week. A day earlier, a man in another part of town had approached a CNN crew asking if they had a tractor or backhoe to dig out trapped people.
At the morgue, Rathon gave a friend 3,000 Haitian gourdes (about $75) to buy a casket for his wife. He apologized that he could not buy a better coffin.
Video: Dead buried in mass graves
RELATED TOPICS
Haiti
Earthquakes
Port-au-Prince
&quot;I don't have enough money,&quot; he said. &quot;All my money is in my business.&quot;
Rathon said he owned a printing and copy shop that employed six people. That is now gone.
He's afraid the rest of his family will be gone soon, too.
Rathon dug for 25 hours, he said, to get his wife out. He put her in his silver Toyota compact and raced to save her life.
&quot;I went to the hospital but she died in my car 15 minutes later,&quot; he said.
Friday afternoon she lay in the morgue parking lot among at least another 300 bodies. The morgue is full and bodies are laid on the ground in no particular pattern, swollen and stiffened and holding the pose in which they died.
It is a horrendous scene made all the more horrible by the smell and the sorrow of family members who come to look for loved ones.
Two men in a homemade wooden cart dropped off a body while Rathon spoke with reporters.
Another 10 or 12 bodies were piled on the sidewalk outside the hospital wall around the corner from the morgue.
Rathon returned to his house to show CNN where he heard the voice of his young son, Jotcharlls, just hours earlier. He says he's not angry or frustrated that he can't get help to dig them out. Those emotions would not solve anything.
But his words and the tone of his voice show he can't quite keep that resolve.
&quot;I live in my car,&quot; he says with some agitation. &quot;I lost my business. I lost my family. I lost everything.&quot;

[sistacaf]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comforting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H_O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we could have an earthquake ANYWHERE </div></div>

yep - but the risk is higher along the edges of these plates, that's where the most damage occurs as the plates bash into each other and grind away the material along the edges, where they meet and crash into one another. all those dotted brown lines are the edges of the plates; that's where the highest risk is for the most devastating damage when one of the plates shifts. which is exactly what caused the Haiti quake.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RichD, I may be splitting hairs but I believe it was 1907 when Kingston took the hit... </div></div>

yah, whatever, the date of previous quakes is irrelevant. There <span style="font-weight: bold">will</span> be more quakes all along those same plates and fault lines, over geologic time. that's a scientific fact, the tectonic plates are constantly moving and shifting. it <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> only a matter of time, for real.

I heard on one of the news shows that JA would fare better in a massive quake like this simply because they learned from past quakes, and they have a building code. Haiti has no such code; most structures were non-reinforced concrete, which just crumbles like dried sand at the least provocation. i wish i could remember where i heard it to find some kind of source, but i can't find it - i just know that someone on CNN did the whole geologic explanation; they talked about the fult lines going thru JA and said the difference is, that JA builds to earthquake code. Reinforcing the concrete means that buildings could withstand a lot more stress, and therefore not just immediately crumble and pancake, like all the Haitian buildings did.

maybe only small consolation but still, having any 'earthquake resistant' building code in place makes a HUGE difference when the shaking starts.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comforting

It is not that the plates really 'crash ' into each other, but what really happen is that they are actually sliding in opposite directions and due to the natural unevenness of the edges. It cause 'hangups'.
These hangups actually obstruct the movements of both plates. But since the pressure that cause the movements is constant, it keep building up behind that hangup
An earthquake happens because the hangup cannot take any more force and the piece is broken off.
This cause the release of all the pressure that was stored behind teh plates and the jolt forward in a snap.
That is the initial act, but sine the plates are actually floating on molten core of the planet, that experience reactive movements until they become locked together again through another of theor jagged sections.
So earth quake will not happen just about anywhere,but it can be felt on the other side of teh planet.
If you notice whenever ther is an earthquake in any area on the planet hours and days after corresponding tremors are felt about the opposite or the other end of the plate system. the <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sistacaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H_O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we could have an earthquake ANYWHERE </div></div>

yep - but the risk is higher along the edges of these plates, that's where the most damage occurs as the plates bash into each other and grind away the material along the edges, where they meet and crash into one another. all those dotted brown lines are the edges of the plates, so that's where the highest risk is for the most devastating damage when one of the plates shifts. which is exactly what caused the Haiti quake. </div></div>

[sistacaf]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comforting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you notice whenever ther is an earthquake in any area on the planet hours and days after corresponding tremors are felt about the opposite or the other end of the plate system. </div></div>

Right. exactly why there were other subsequent quakes this week; a 4.5 in Venezuela on Friday and another 6.3 one this morning in Argentina.

[SmoothOperator]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comfort

Someone was making the point on TV yesterday that LA had a similar earthquake in the late 80s early 90s and it resulted in less than 100 casualties. The point being made here is that a lot of the damage and casualties in Haiti was the result of poor construction - no steel being used in a lot of the buildings. This does not make light of the fact that it was a powerful quake but construction plays a big part in the degree of damage that will be done when a big one comes along. Other countries in the Caribbean would probably have fared better because of better construction and building standards.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Earthquake - Image of the fault line image..not comforting

And when they state that the likelihood of the quake moving west is really speculation.
Since ther is currently no technology to identify which jagged edge will snap under the pressure .
It Could be in the same area, it could be any place wher ther id a hangup, that can be broken under the pressure.
And this can happen any time.
The difference is the longer the time between activity the greater the stored pressure and the more violent the potential.
The advantage with the caribbean is that there have been hundreds of tremors, and each tremor releases potential violent energy.
So it is theoretically saver whenever a plate has constant tremors,since it is a gradual release of energy.
Instead of suden, whichcause high energy quakes. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sistacaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you notice whenever ther is an earthquake in any area on the planet hours and days after corresponding tremors are felt about the opposite or the other end of the plate system. </div></div>

Right. exactly why there were other subsequent quakes this week; a 4.5 in Venezuela on Friday and another 6.3 one this morning in Argentina. </div></div>