Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

[msportmore]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Every Spirit filled believer knows that they are Spirit filled by the evidence of speaking in tongues...in the bible, whenever someone receieved the Holy Ghost the bible says they heard them speak with tongues


Acts 10:44 - 46

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God

Acts 19:6 - And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied



Now the gifts of the Spirit include divers kinds of tongues - I agree that there are many different types of gifts but the same Spirit:



1 Corinthians 12:4-11

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.



But the reference you made Jedi from 1 Corinthians 14 is referring to speaking in tongues when the church comes together. Have you ever been in a service and there is one person speaking in tongues for a while and everyone is just sitting quietly? Then everyone sits and waits for the interpretaion and it doesn't come forth? That's what this scripture is referring to. Paul was telling the Corinthian brethren that it's better to have someone prophesy to edify the church rather than to have someone speaking in tongues without interpretation.

My suggestion is that you pray on it - then again, you don't have to.

My belief is my belief and I will stand firm on it even if I am the only one who does.

Be Blessed

[coffeegyal]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Miss P, have you ever had the experience yourself?

Anyone else can answer, for that matter. If you have spoken in tongues, do you remember the experience? Do you feel overtaken? Do you feel like yourself? Do you understand what you're saying? The whole idea is fascinating (and a little scary) to me.

[msportmore]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

CG: Yes, I am spirit filled and it's evidenced by speaking in tongues.

- Do I feel like myself? Yes

- Do I feel overtaken? (Not sure what you mean but if you are saying do I feel like I can't control myself then no.) The Spirit is subject to us.

- Do I know what I'm saying? Most times [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Am I ever scared? No. It becomes real once you have experienced it so there's no need to be scared. God hasn't given us a spirit of fear but of love and power and a sound mind.

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

This topic will elect denominational responses from us all, for we all see "through a glass darkly" and cloud issues with our own learned responses and select scriptural responses.

I want to examine evidence in the early church in the Book of Acts.

Act 8:4
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
Act 8:5
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Act 8:6
And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7
For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8
And there was great joy in that city.

Now note below that salvation is not solely by believeing

Act 8:9
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Act 8:10
To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Act 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Note, Philip was not an Apostle, he was an evangelist "full of the Holy Ghost". The keys of the Kingdom were given to Peter it was he who would open the Kingdom of heaven to the Samaritans as he had done on the day of Pentecost to the Jews, and would later do to the Gentiles.

Act 8:14
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Note, Philip had cast out demons healed the sick and baptised many but even though these people believed, something had not happened, none of them had recieved the Holy Ghost.

Question, How did the people and the Apostles know that?

Answer the evidence was missing, no speaking in tongues as in the upper room, or as with Cornelius.,

1.
This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel that in the last days I will pour out my spirit on all flesh.

2.
Can we forbid water seeing these Gentiles have recieved the Holy Ghost as we?

On two occasions the Apostles used the speaking in tongues as evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Note here

Act 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

But wait there is no speaking in tongues mentioned here.
Correct!
But something happened, something that caught Simon the Socerer's attention, when the disciples laid hands and the converts recieved the Holy Ghost, something happened (not mentioned) that made Simon jealous, he wanted to buy this.

What was it?

Act 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Simon called it power, he saw something.

Is it not fair to infer he saw what the Apostles saw at Pentecost and at Cornelius house the initial evidence of the speaking in tongues, the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Act 8:20
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Well there you have it folks, Peter called it the gift of God, we know it as the gift of the Holy Spirit whereby we are adopted into God's family.

[b]Act 8:21
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

What did I say believing is not enough, Simon claimed to have believed and was baptised.

Act 8:22
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Act 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.
Act 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Not nowhere did it say Simon recieved the Holy Ghost.

The baptism of the Holy Ghost is available to all believers, with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, some don't want it some don't believe it and some are afraid of what others may say if they worship God in tongues.

Paul said I speak in more tongues than all of you.

Is it at all possible that spiritual expressions was one of the compromises made by the Roman church to escape persecutions and identification as christians?

History strongly suggests this.

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Miss Portmore:
[qb]Every Spirit filled believer knows that they are Spirit filled by the evidence of speaking in tongues...in the bible, whenever someone receieved the Holy Ghost the bible says they heard them speak with tongues


Acts 10:44 - 46

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God

Acts 19:6 - And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied



Now the gifts of the Spirit include divers kinds of tongues - I agree that there are many different types of gifts but the same Spirit:



1 Corinthians 12:4-11

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.



But the reference you made Jedi from 1 Corinthians 14 is referring to speaking in tongues when the church comes together. Have you ever been in a service and there is one person speaking in tongues for a while and everyone is just sitting quietly? Then everyone sits and waits for the interpretaion and it doesn't come forth? That's what this scripture is referring to. Paul was telling the Corinthian brethren that it's better to have someone prophesy to edify the church rather than to have someone speaking in tongues without interpretation.

My suggestion is that you pray on it - then again, you don't have to.

My belief is my belief and I will stand firm on it even if I am the only one who does.

Be Blessed[/qb]

Ms. Portmore the 1 Corinthian 14 was an error picked up when I copied the entire chapter. So please omit that. My reference is to the entire chapter, that speaking in tongues doesnot edify the body nor profit anyone if noone knows what is being said. Notice Paul says that He wishes everyone would speak in tongues as he does. It is quite likely that everyone admired that ability and wanted that gift but Paul goes on to say that it is better to prophesy that way everyone is benefited. This would seem to suggest that speaking in tongues is not a prerequisite to worship, but more of a private matter between God and men and only profits the church when there is an interpreter. I also said the bible warns us to "Test every spirit." There are also spirits of divination which have the same ability to speak in tongues they are unclean spirits. Hence I said which is the greater gift to speak in tongues or to be able to discern the Holy Spirit different from an unclean spirit. Why do you think speaking in tongues is forbidden in many churches? This was in response to your original assertion that "In order to show evidence of the Holy Spirit the believer MUST speak in tongues."

Furthermore there is nothing anywhere in the bible that says that a believer must speak in tongues in order to show evidence of the spirit indwelling.. My question would be - TO WHOM MUST THIS BE PROVEN AND FOR WHAT REASON?
We worship God so therefore if there any proving to do it is to Him and not men. God is a spirit, and who ever worships Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God does not rely on verbal utterance of men God searches the heart.

Here is your reference read again what it says:
1 Corinthians 12:4-11

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is evidenced in many ways and only one is "speaking in tongues"

Jesus Christ preached the heart and that is where our focus should be. It is there and only there that salvation is evident in the life of a believer. Anything that issues forth from that persons life is only as a result of the Spirit working in their heart. God, works through the surrendered life by His Spirit whether it is prophecy, healing, making utterances of wisdom or preaching, visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, serving the brethren, gift giving etc. All comes from the heart, for it is the throne room of Gods Holy Spirit. Hence the word does not say "By their ability to "speak in tongues you shall know them" but BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM The utternaces of tongues is not to be denied but it is a form of communication between men and God and not always meant for public display as some would believe. Therefore to say that you must make utterance to prove that you have the Holy Spirit is to also suggest that there must also be witnesses present. That is fallacious teaching. In fact I am of the opinion that this is another means used by the enemy to make some believers feel inferior to others particularly in some denominations which would then also beg the question. How real are all these tongues?

And what do you suggest that I pray on? You assume much Ms. Portmore, you assume much.

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Jedi

I too battled with scriptures, I was not always a pentecostal being for most of my life Anglican, but its not what I beleive it what's written that counts.

The apostles recognised the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as the speaking in other tongues, its written twice in the scriptures and once is good enough for me.

Now either they had a different Holy Ghost than we do today or we have abandoned what they thought.

Peter said on the day of Pentecost, "this is for you and your children and your children's children and as many as are called".

Does the 'many' include us?

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by accepted:
[qb]Jedi

I too battled with scriptures, I was not always a pentecostal being for most of my life Anglican, but its not what I beleive it what's written that counts.

The apostles recognised the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as the speaking in other tongues, its written twice in the scriptures and once is good enough for me.

Now either they had a different Holy Ghost than we do today or we have abandoned what they thought.

Peter said on the day of Pentecost, "this is for you and your children and your children's children and as many as are called".

Does the 'many' include us?[/qb]

And I am not saying that it is not an evidence but is it the only evidence?

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

The Holy Ghost is a gift sent to us from God. Christians must be filled with the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit). Now the evidence that the Holy Spirit has come is speaking in tongues. Every Spirit-filled believer must speak in tongues I took the liberty of reposting the original statement made by Ms. Portmore by way of keeping us on track here. Please note that she said Every Spirit-filled believer must speak in tongues.

[dahjah]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Unno need fe stop all de confusion where tongues is concerned.

HULLLA BULLLA DELOKSK SKSKSHAY [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

DATS basically wah yuh hear from ppl who say the spoke in tongues.
And they believe this came from the Almighty. I beg to differ. It most likely came from another spirit other than GOD.
If one speaks in tongues and the ppl cyaan understand it, it is not of JAH.
No interpreter would be needed if someone actually spoke true tongues.

Dem ppl want sum lik--> a dat dem want a fool up de ppl an ha ppl a tink seh dem filled wid holy spirit when is an unholy spirit

Tongues would mean everybody would hear it in the language of their own, even down to the dielect of the part of town weh dem cum from.
Suh smaddy who live a bush a yaad would hear it like dem neighbah a chat to dem ova de fence same way like an french yute would a hear it fe im french language. Not dis Jibba jabba holedadda shay foolishness.
WAKE UP.

[dahjah]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

A dis mi mean:

Acts 2:4-8

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Very good (((Dahjah))) that was going to be my next stance on the matter of tongues. The fact that God used this as a sign of the coming of the Spirit for the first time at Pentecost, and that all heard it and understood in their own languages. That is not to say that some haven't been given this gift today, but it is not a MUST for every Spirit filled believer for as Peter says, everyone has been given a gift, not necessarily the same gift but all are of the same Spirit but all gifts are given to Glorfy God and for the edifying of the body which is the church.

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]And I am not saying that it is not an evidence but is it the only evidence?[/qb]

Jedi,

Quite an interesting question.
Only.
It requires some debate, yes.

Yet is this a way to reject the evidence of the Apostles as not conclusive, to continue in our own ways in spite of what scripture records, or an honest searching for answers to the many who believe and are baptised but do not speak or for that matter believe in the speaking of tongues, who like Dahjah see it with derision and ridicule.

This is the slippery slope we persue when we move away from 'first principles' and make the exception the rule, and it may well determine our eternal destiny if we are decieved.

This is the reason so many stick to scripture specifically to avoid giving a hope that may not lead to salvation.

I am going to step beyond my own denominational framework and in faith reach out and examine the Biblical record fully aware that I too may be misled.

John 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Joh 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

From this passage it can be seen that the disciples were given the Holy Ghost before Pentecost. However the message was to wait for the gift of the father.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

We all know the Comforter was sent on the Day of Pentecost, by the reconing of the Saducees the fiftieth day after the feast of the Passover the festival of the First Fruits it was a Sunday and is called the Birthday of the Church since on that Day 120 in the upper room got the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and another 3000 were added that day after Peter's Famous Acts 2:38 declaration.

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus had already given the disciples the reason why they should wait for the gift of the Holy Ghost, they would recieve
1. Power
2. They would be witnesses, first in Jerusalem next all Judea, then Samaria, then the utmost parts of the earth.

What power, witnesses to what?

If you read my earlier Post you would see the power that simon the sorcerer wanted to buy.

Peter had to be given a dream to believe the witness of the Gentiles, when he heard Cornelius speak in tongues, he knew he was was a witness to the Baptism of the Holy Ghost to the Gentiles.

Now throughout the Bible the Holy Ghost was given to men, to the prophets to Judges and even to believers without the evidence of tongues.

Mark 9:38
And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Luke 9:49
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

Even Jesus disciples while he was yet alive did not have an monopoly on the Holy Ghost, but since Pentecost the Holy Ghost comes as the "wind bloweth and listeth".

Jesus said you must be born of the water and the spirit, The Spirit now comes as a rushing mighty wind and is given to us without measure.

Do not get carried away with gifts, to have the gifts one must first have the spirit.

(((Jedi))) examine the scriptures if you be in the way, and yeild not to your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths.

With as much love as I can give,

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mathew 7;23 And he will say....

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by King dahjah:
A dis mi mean:

Acts 2:4-8

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?[/QB]

Dahjah,

You forgot to include the verse which said these men were drunk with new wine.

To the Jews at Jerusalem the men were speaking gibberish.

To the Jews coming into town from "all Judaea" these men were speaking in their own natural tongues.

So you have here at Jerusalem on the Feast of Pentecost two reports, fariegn tongues to the local Jews and 'homeboy' tongues to the deportees, so to speak.

But to really appreciate the gibberish, Paul adds another dimension,

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Now you have tongues terrestial and tongues celestial.

But there is more (gibberish) to quote you.

1Co 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries

Now we have spiritual tongues, which no man understands.

Now it get really mystical, self edification, church edification, spiritual relevation, spiritual knowledge.

Who can know the deep things of God?
The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.

Dahjah, watch how you call the spiritual things of God "gibberish", for God says none of these tongues is without significance.

1Co 14:4
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

And by the way is it the gift of tongues or the gift of interpretation of tongues?

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

(((Accepted))) Please reread the post from the very beginning and follow what it is I am saying before you banish me to hell, you don't seem to be following this discussion at all. And answer this question simply....Is it a requirement that every spirit filled believer speak in tongues in order to demonstrate that the Spirit of God is dwelling within them?

And by the way here is that Luke 9 scripture in context:

49"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

What is your point here Accepted?

Listen I don't have a lot of time right now but in little while I will be back I just came on to copy a recipe I am cooking. Little later [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[dahjah]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

No accepted, I didn't forget.
I take it as it is today.
If a man stands up and speaks today and everybody could understand him, in a multicultural crowd you'd have people the same way today as then saying the same kinds of things.They were just upset that they had the ears of the people instead of them. Pure Jellousy--a suh mi seet.

11 we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine

You see they were all amazed cause they couldn't believe this could happen.

An unknown tongue can mean many things.
I'm sure you've spoke clear english to smaddy an dem neh undastan a wird yuh seh. And you find yourself explaining things to them.
If you speak in Parrables as Jesus did many will not overstand wah ya seh all doe ya talk english to dem.