Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

**Jaysan** · 12-16-2002, 10:53 AM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]BIG ASSumption. [/qb]

Very articulate for a Christian

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]
...but you are not cantankerous by any means, I am. [/qb]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

**jedi** · 12-16-2002, 10:57 AM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Asham-J:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]BIG ASSumption. [/qb]

Very articulate for a Christian

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]
...but you are not cantankerous by any means, I am. [/qb]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Thank you! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**Diplomat** · 12-16-2002, 12:29 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Sorry but I believe that I was baptised with the Holy Spirit when I accepted Jesus as my personal saviour and made an open confession of my faith.[/qb]

My apologies for beating this dead horse, but where is the scriptural reference to support this? In the words of reknowned Bible Teacher and Scholar Kenneth Hagin: Obviously, "there is a work of the Holy Spirit in the new birth, but that is not called receiving the Holy Ghost - that is called being born again, receiving eternal life." And according to Acts 8:14-17, "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." It really doesn't get any clearer than that, does it? They were baptized first, after accepting Jesus as Lord, and received the Holy Ghost sometime after.

**jedi** · 12-16-2002, 01:35 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Sorry but I believe that I was baptised with the Holy Spirit when I accepted Jesus as my personal saviour and made an open confession of my faith.[/qb]

My apologies for beating this dead horse, but where is the scriptural reference to support this? In the words of reknowned Bible Teacher and Scholar Kenneth Hagin: Obviously, "there is a work of the Holy Spirit in the new birth, but that is not called receiving the Holy Ghost - that is called being born again, receiving eternal life." And according to Acts 8:14-17, "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." It really doesn't get any clearer than that, does it? They were baptized first, after accepting Jesus as Lord, and received the Holy Ghost sometime after.[/qb]

And I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one CEW. Since when Jesus said "we will come in and sup with you" It means that His spirit comes into your heart. That is enough for me now as I mature in the faith the outworkings of His spirit are manifested through me.

Since I have never seen nor heard of any "tongues of fire descending on anyone since Penticost, nor are there any of the original apostles around anymore then I guess you can say I take it on faith in Jesus's word, that what He says He is able to perform.
PS Let me also add that the Ordained Pastor who baptized me was given the power to baptize in name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and recieve Christ, (what the apostles would have done) so by faith I accept it and that settles it for me.

**Diplomat** · 12-16-2002, 01:42 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Since when Jesus said "we will come in and sup with you" [/qb]

And where does it say that? Regarding the rest of your post, we will agree to disagree.

**jedi** · 12-16-2002, 01:59 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Since when Jesus said "we will come in and sup with you" [/qb]

And where does it say that? Regarding the rest of your post, we will agree to disagree.[/qb]

John 14

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Revelation 3
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Surely this speaks of the spirit of God doesn't it. Now as I said as we become molded to His image and mature in the faith we begin to evidence the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

**babydoll** · 12-16-2002, 02:08 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

I went to a spritism (sp) church once that was made up of only women, there was one man in the congregation and he was playing the drums. Anyway, all the women spoke in tounges, they went around in circles sprinkling water or something and speaking in tounges. I guess the entire church was annointed w/ the holy spirit [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

There was one woman there who was holding her baby (around 4 months old) while she spoke in tounges was going beserk according to my observation, I was afraid she was going to drop the baby [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] fianlly someone took the baby from her. After that day, I don't know what to believe when it comes to speaking in tounges. I guess some things are just not meant to be understood.

**Diplomat** · 12-16-2002, 02:10 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Since when Jesus said "we will come in and sup with you" [/qb]

And where does it say that? Regarding the rest of your post, we will agree to disagree.[/qb]

John 14

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Revelation 3
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Surely this speaks of the spirit of God doesn't it. Now as I said as we become molded to His image and mature in the faith we begin to evidence the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.[/qb]

The first text speaks of the Holy Spirit's new creating grace and God's promise to dwell in the life of the believer who walks in obedience. Again, two different things but by way of final comment, we will disagree agreeably.

**jedi** · 12-16-2002, 02:12 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Hi (((babydoll))) can't remember seeing you in this neck of the woods.

Well my dear you can read all of the interesting posts here and decide for yourself. But I would also advise you to get into a bible class and study the word, asking for God's guidance on the matter firstly of course . That is if you are truly interested. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

BTW-nice seeing you over come more often and share you can learn a lot too. Just avoid the heavy artillery. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**jedi** · 12-16-2002, 02:25 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...Since when Jesus said "we will come in and sup with you" [/qb]

And where does it say that? Regarding the rest of your post, we will agree to disagree.[/qb]

John 14

Surely this speaks of the spirit of God doesn't it. Now as I said as we become molded to His image and mature in the faith we begin to evidence the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.[/qb]

The first text speaks of the Holy Spirit's new creating grace and God's promise to dwell in the life of the believer who walks in obedience. Again, two different things but by way of final comment, we will disagree agreeably.[/qb]

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Where does it say what you have just asserted CEW in the above text. Does it not say that "we will come to him and make our home with him.

Revelation 3
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Here again "I will come in and eat with him and He with me." I will come in certainly not in the flesh but in the spirit. So where is the confusion? Furthermore if as you said it speaks of the new creation, greaaaaaaaaat!!! even more so the merrier, the renewal brought about by the HOLY SPIRIT IN THE BELIEVER. THE HOLY SPIRIT ENTERS INTO THE BELIEVER. The fruits are later manifested in the process of sanctification. Me done talk. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

We will disagree agreeably? Sure [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

**babydoll** · 12-16-2002, 02:58 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]Hi (((babydoll))) can't remember seeing you in this neck of the woods.

Well my dear you can read all of the interesting posts here and decide for yourself. But I would also advise you to get into a bible class and study the word, asking for God's guidance on the matter firstly of course . That is if you are truly interested. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

BTW-nice seeing you over come more often and share you can learn a lot too. Just avoid the heavy artillery. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

((((jedi)))) I support everyone who has a belief in a higher power whomever they wish. As for me, that time in my life is over. I come here all the time and read mostly. I enjoy the discussions, they are so lively... keep it going [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

**coffeegyal** · 12-16-2002, 05:51 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Miss P, Thanks for your contribution. Don't worry about whether or not you meant to stir up controversy. Hardly anyone here ever means to...but, leave it to the rest of us to take your comments to places you never dreamed...Stick around. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**accepted77** · 12-16-2002, 11:51 PM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]The other day I was a a meeting to discuss the setting up of a protest of a verdict here in Ft. Lauderdale. It was held at a church. In attendance were a few of the church members, their pastor but there were far more visitors, members of the press, rastas, Nation of Islam representatives, and just your every day Joe.

Well at the end of the meeting, the pastor called on one of his members to pray. Right off the bat the woman started a piece of dancing and then started speaking in tongues. After she did that, she began to interpret, bumbling all over the words. Cameras were rolling and tapes were taping. Why did I feel embarassed?[/qb]

I dunno maybe you wanted to start a post and see who would answer this question for you?

Or just maybe inject a little controversal tint and see how this post go off tangent, [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**accepted77** · 12-17-2002, 01:34 AM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

Originally posted by accepted:
[qb]

Accepted.[/qb]

Originally by Jedi

Another mistake that many may make is to believe that just by accepting God you have suddenly arrived at the place of recieving special gifts. Acceptance of God is just the beginning of the long journey of faith and it takes time to get to the place where you are in such close union with the Spirit as to show evidence of Spiritual gifts. As we earnestly seek fellowship with God, and as we surrender our lives, and are yeilded both in body and spirit to Him, His Spirit is evidenced in us the believer. Speaking in tongues is one evidence of this, but there are many others, and I dare say too often the others are lacking even in those who claim to be speaking in tongues [/QUOTE Focus is placed moreso on providing this evidence than on leading a life evident of the indwelling Spirit of God.

.[/qb]

Jedi.

Lets start with foundational issues.

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
;
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jedi I have gone through this long expose of scripture verses to highlight one thing and one thing only.

The Bible recognises one Doctrine as foundational, the apostles Doctrine.

The church are lively stones built upon the fondation of the apostles and prophets.

Acts 2:38 is foundational Doctrine, the church knew no other doctrine than the Apostles Doctrine.

The Apostles did not expect any long period between repent, baptised and recieving the Holy Ghost, the saw this as the way to salvation.

In answer to your question, my answer is foudational, repent be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Its not the doctrine that is flawed it the obedience to it that is flawed.

1Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

If we have built on another foundation, and ask questions such as ONLY the problem is not with the doctrine it is with us.

My answer is yes, the only evidence the Apostles recognised for the baptism of the Holy Ghost after Pentecost was the speaking in tongues.

Why should we create another?

**jedi** · 12-17-2002, 02:32 AM

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

John14: 23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Revelation 3
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

(((Accepted))) look at the three references above, they seem to agree on one thing don't they.

John 14:23
we will come to him and make our home with him.
not the gift of tongues but the Holy Spirit

Rev. 3:20 I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
not the gift of tongues but the Holy Spirit

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Not the gift of tongues but the Holy Ghost

(((Accepted))) Accept the fact that I believe that the Day of Pentecost was for a sign to the Apostles of the Holy Spirit coming down. The tongues were heard by all present in their own dialect which was a sign that God's gift of salvation was for all peoples. The manner in which you are putting this forward would seem to equate the Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues and if that is true then 1Cor. 12 is a lie and so is 1 Cor. 14. My point is you cannot equate the gift with the giver of the gifts. Clearly the same Holy Spirit imparts many gifts but all are for the building up of the body which is the church.

And yes I do believe that you recieve the Spirit when you repent and are baptized but that you are not made perfect immediately and that you are being built up a Holy Priesthood you are growing if you continue in the faith. Speaking in tongues is as a result of the indwelling Spirit which you recieved upon your baptism, but whose fruits are not apparent immediately it comes as you draw closer to God and mature in the faith. Otherwise what is the need to grow and mature in spiritual things tell me this, and you yourself agreed that recieving the gift of tongues did not happen at your acceptance of Christ but later. However you do recieve the Holy Spirit right away.

Phillipians 3:
10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death , 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Pressing on Toward the Goal

12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Why do we need then to grow and mature in spiritual things for what reason?

1 Peter2:2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

The Living Stone and a Chosen People

4As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

So I am saying that the recieving of spiritual gifts as spoken of in 1 Cor. 12 & 14 come with maturity in the faith. GROWING IN GRACE

Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

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