Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

(((Accepted))) I came back in but didn't see a response from you. I have taken the time to read what all you have said, and it seems that what I have gleaned is that for a believer to be baptised with the Holy Spirit then that believer must speak in tongues to show evidence of this.

We could go on and on about this but there are two things that stand out in my mind here is one

Believing

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." Rev. 3:20

The above tells me that when I invited Jesus into my heart, that same day Jesus came into my heart.
How do I know because I heard the Word of God, I believed it and I repented of my sins and invited Jesus into my heart. Did Jesus come into my heart? Yes! how do I know it because He said He would and He cannot lie. Are Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit part of the same diety aka the triune God? Yes. Does the Holy Spirit live in my heart? Yes.

Secondly: A continued walk of Faith

What is the evidence of Christ indwelling my heart? A continued walk in Christ, a desire to follow Him and do His will. The fruits of which are evidenced not only in a one time "mountain top experience" but a daily walk with God in obedience to His word and a life surrendered to Christ. Any good works that I do are not as a result of my efforts but a manifestation of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

While not at all denying the gift of Tongues or the ability of the Spirit to go where it pleases or do as it wills, by the same token never make the mistake of believing that the Spirit of God will show up on Sunday morning or at some weekday worship service and touch randomly who He wills, but is relatively absent in the believers life the rest of the week. The fruits of the Spirit are to be evident in my life daily.

Another mistake that many may make is to believe that just by accepting God you have suddenly arrived at the place of recieving special gifts. Acceptance of God is just the beginning of the long journey of faith and it takes time to get to the place where you are in such close union with the Spirit as to show evidence of Spiritual gifts. As we earnestly seek fellowship with God, and as we surrender our lives, and are yeilded both in body and spirit to Him, His Spirit is evidenced in us the believer. Speaking in tongues is one evidence of this, but there are many others, and I dare say too often the others are lacking even in those who claim to be speaking in tongues.

So in conclusion (((Accepted))) don't for a minute think that I donot believe in speaking in tongues. But I just don't believe it is as light a matter as some take it, (it is a very, very holy thing) nor do I believe in what all I see parading itself as the gift of tongues. I also firmly believe that the Day of Pentecost was for a sign of the coming of the Holy Spirit and that many became believers after that experience, not only then but to Peter and the Jewish believers (as was the example you gave) that would prove that it had arrived as promised and that salvation and baptism by the Spirit was also for the gentiles. I believe that today Speaking in tongues is a gift as referenced by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Corinthians 12, but I donot believe that it is the only evidence of the Spirit filled life.

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb](((Accepted))) Please reread the post from the very beginning and follow what it is I am saying before you banish me to hell, you don't seem to be following this discussion at all. And answer this question simply....Is it a requirement that every spirit filled believer speak in tongues in order to demonstrate that the Spirit of God is dwelling within them?

And by the way here is that Luke 9 scripture in context:

49"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

What is your point here Accepted?

Listen I don't have a lot of time right now but in little while I will be back I just came on to copy a recipe I am cooking. Little later [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

Could never banish you to hell, girl, we need you here at Ja.com [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The point I am making here is that the Holy Ghost was given to men long before Pentecost without evidence of speaking in tongues.

Something NEW happened on Church Day 1.

Jesus in refering to it said to Nicodemus, you must be born again. You must be born of water and of the Spirit.

The prophet Joel prophesied that

Joel 2:23
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
Joe 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Now on the day of Pentecost Peter speaking to the Jews gathered at Jerusalem at the feast of the First Fruits, quoted this passage as being fulfilled that day.

The 'former rain' was the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit during the time of the Law and the prophets. The latter rain is the treasure in earthen vessels "Christ in you the hope of Glory".

The former rain was Gods favour to his people the Latter rain is Jesus Christ in his church, Grace to us.

The former rain did not come with tongues, the latter rain came with the evidence.

The former rain did not have the power to slay the Old man, the latter rain we walk in Spirit so we do not obey the lusts of the flesh.

The latter rain is the new birth and it comes with the power of the Holy Ghost.

You ask Do all born again christians have to speak in tongues.

Peter on the day of pentecost says if you want the latter rain you will speak in tongues.

So we still have a church of mixed blessings today, some getting by on former rain and some with latter rain. That why we are not as effective as we could be.

Remember the Holy Spirit only came when the disciples were [b]in one accord/b].

and also Jeremiah

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

.

((Jedi)) today we have a church divided, by schisms and customs, Satan has us just where he wants us, compare the original,

Acts 17:6
And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

[dahjah]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

yeah a choo dat, why do so many christians believe dat dis holy duppy haff tuh be equated wid speaking tongues?

[Diplomat]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...when I invited Jesus into my heart, that same day Jesus came into my heart. How do I know because I heard the Word of God, I believed it and I repented of my sins and invited Jesus into my heart. Did Jesus come into my heart? Yes! how do I know it because He said He would and He cannot lie. Are Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit part of the same diety aka the triune God? Yes. Does the Holy Spirit live in my heart? Yes.[/qb]

While this is true, the Bible is very clear that the baptism with/in the Holy Ghost is a separate experience. I think accepted already explained this at great length, and Acts 5:32 speaks rather loudly as well.

[qb]I believe that today Speaking in tongues is a gift as referenced by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Corinthians 12, but I donot believe that it is the only evidence of the Spirit filled life.[/qb]

You are talking about two different things. The ability to speak in tongues is not indicative of a Spirit filled life.

[accepted77]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Jedi,
I just read your second post, I believe we were posting at the same time.

Let me first respond to your question from my heart, I cannot see the God of Grace judging us for what we don't know, we all walk in the light we are given, and I don't mean this in any condescending way.
I believe at the judgement of the saints, that our errors will be burnt away as dross. I am no more righteous with tongues than anyone without tongues. Righteousness is not an award we can earn it is the unmerited Grace of God. In fact tongues does not prevent a christian from sinning,
you may be more aware of sin in youself, "in me dwelleth no good thing", but it takes a made up mind to live for God, and no one has a corner on that.
I was a good christian as an Anglican, my family who are Anglican are also good christians, and though I minister to them about my faith I have learnt that each person must come to this revelation by themselves, no one can be rushed or forced.
When I was first exposed to the revelation of tongues I ran to it like the hare panting for the brook. It seemed like I had discovered what I always knew was missing.
As a teenager boy in the Servers guild, the solemnity of high mass on the Feast of the Nativity, or as it is more populary known Christmas Eve midnight Mass, the descant of Handel's Messiah, and O Come, O come Emmanuel took me to the heights of praise where at times I experienced an overflowing of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

It was later when I recieved the full baptism of the Holy spirit with speaking in tongues that I felt the awesome presence of God in my being.

Then I realised what my soul was missing these long years.

I must pause.....

There is a richer fuller deeper life with the baptism of the spirit, but untill that comes Stand in the faith you are given.

I am praying for you girl.

Accepted.

[msportmore]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

I only came in to state my beliefs. Does stating my beliefs and my own personal conviction mean that I assume? No. I assume nothing [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I do not seek conflict. And my discussion on this subject will end here. Like I stated earlier, I stand firm on my beliefs [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Be blessed

[DC]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by CEW:

The ability to speak in tongues is not indicative of a Spirit filled life.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Thats my line of thinking too CEW.

My understanding is that upon receiving Christ-asking him into your heart-you have a regenerated spirit-from the old to the new. Our spirit that was dead to God is now alive unto Him and we now have a chance to build a relationship with our Creator. Now as that child of God grows in God,then he/she seeks for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and evidence of this experience is speaking in tongues.

I know people who spoke in tongues upon baptism of the Holy Spirit but never spoke again in other tongues, but their lives do show evidence of a regenerated spirit that is growing in the likeness of its Creator. Conversely, there are some I have seen who speak in tongues quite often but their lives do not show the maturity of a life that is growing in the likeness of their Creator.

I was raised in the Pentecostal church, and my opinion is that more emphasis was on the speaking in tongues and "more power" than a christlike character-which is our ultimate calling. I was not hearing a balanced message at the time.

my 3 cents... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DC]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Miss Portmore:
[qb]I only came in to state my beliefs. Does stating my beliefs and my own personal conviction mean that I assume? No. I assume nothing [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I do not seek conflict. And my discussion on this subject will end here. Like I stated earlier, I stand firm on my beliefs [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Be blessed[/qb]

(((((Ms PPPPPPPPP))))))))

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by accepted:
[qb]Jedi,
I just read your second post, I believe we were posting at the same time.

Let me first respond to your question from my heart, I cannot see the God of Grace judging us for what we don't know, we all walk in the light we are given, and I don't mean this in any condescending way.
I believe at the judgement of the saints, that our errors will be burnt away as dross. I am no more righteous with tongues than anyone without tongues. Righteousness is not an award we can earn it is the unmerited Grace of God. In fact tongues does not prevent a christian from sinning,
you may be more aware of sin in youself, "in me dwelleth no good thing", but it takes a made up mind to live for God, and no one has a corner on that.
I was a good christian as an Anglican, my family who are Anglican are also good christians, and though I minister to them about my faith I have learnt that each person must come to this revelation by themselves, no one can be rushed or forced.
When I was first exposed to the revelation of tongues I ran to it like the hare panting for the brook. It seemed like I had discovered what I always knew was missing.
As a teenager boy in the Servers guild, the solemnity of high mass on the Feast of the Nativity, or as it is more populary known Christmas Eve midnight Mass, the descant of Handel's Messiah, and O Come, O come Emmanuel took me to the heights of praise where at times I experienced an overflowing of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

It was later when I recieved the full baptism of the Holy spirit with speaking in tongues that I felt the awesome presence of God in my being.

Then I realised what my soul was missing these long years.

I must pause.....

There is a richer fuller deeper life with the baptism of the spirit, but untill that comes Stand in the faith you are given.

I am praying for you girl.

Accepted.[/qb]

Originally by Jedi

Another mistake that many may make is to believe that just by accepting God you have suddenly arrived at the place of recieving special gifts. Acceptance of God is just the beginning of the long journey of faith and it takes time to get to the place where you are in such close union with the Spirit as to show evidence of Spiritual gifts. As we earnestly seek fellowship with God, and as we surrender our lives, and are yeilded both in body and spirit to Him, His Spirit is evidenced in us the believer. Speaking in tongues is one evidence of this, but there are many others, and I dare say too often the others are lacking even in those who claim to be speaking in tongues

(((Accepted)))After reading your post above I have come to the conclusion that we are not taking time to read each others posts. BTW- You still have not answered my question, and yes I find what you have said not only condescending but very assuming, back to what I said about certain denominations making their congregants feel somehow deficient if they lack the ability to speak in tongues. Focus is placed moreso on providing this evidence than on leading a life evident of the indwelling Spirit of God.

Did you take time to read what I said? I copied it here so look again. Now why do you assume that because I take the stand that I do that I have not experienced speaking in tongues? Or is that only for Pentecostals? Just as you I believe also that speaking in tongues is not a thing to be taken lightly, it comes with growth and maturity and a close and deep relationship with God. And that is also the reason why I feel that what I see in a lot of churches is nothing more that masked hysteria.

Sorry but I believe that I was baptised with the Holy Spirit when I accepted Jesus as my personal saviour and made an open confession of my faith. The evidence (gifts) of His indwelling spirit came over a period of time as I grew in His grace and as He molded me more in His image. I also believe that all through my walk of faith I will show more and more of these evidences (gifts), as I continue to abide in Him, for I am being sanctified (going from glory to glory) till the day of His return.

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

While this is true, the Bible is very clear that the baptism with/in the Holy Ghost is a separate experience. I think accepted already explained this at great length, and Acts 5:32 speaks rather loudly as well.

Thanks for clearing that up for me CEW. Perhaps you would like to read my last reply to Accepted [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You are talking about two different things. The ability to speak in tongues is not indicative of a Spirit filled life.
Oh no? So does that mean that anyone devoid of the Holy Spirit can speak in an angelic language? That answer would seem to support my claim that we should test the spirits because there are unclean spirits that have the ability to speak in tongues.

At anyrate please note that I said that while speaking in tongues is an indication of the indwelling Spirit it was not the only indication of the Holy Spirit within.

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Miss Portmore:
[qb]I only came in to state my beliefs. Does stating my beliefs and my own personal conviction mean that I assume? No. I assume nothing [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I do not seek conflict. And my discussion on this subject will end here. Like I stated earlier, I stand firm on my beliefs [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Be blessed[/qb]

My suggestion is that you pray on it - then again, you don't have to.

[/b]

Is this part of your personal conviction also? If so then you are assuming.

[Mutty]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

But look wah dem do wid mi poas nuh faadah! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Anyway, if one wanted to ever know why there are so many churches, here's proof.

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]But look wah dem do wid mi poas nuh faadah! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Anyway, if one wanted to ever know why there are so many churches, here's proof.[/qb]

Right everyone taking a piece of the pie and flying wid it.

Personally I prefer the whole pie myself. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[msportmore]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

My suggestion is that you pray on it - then again, you don't have to.

[/qb]

Is this part of your personal conviction also? If so then you are assuming.[/QB]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just came back to respond to this then I'm out for real. If my telling someone to pray about something means that I assume anything then I suppose I have assumed a lot in my life [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] If someone asks me what I think about something (such as a job or a decision or whatever) and I say to them Pray on it what then am I assuming? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I never thought that an individual would think someone is assuming something only because they are told to pray about something. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Ah well, c'est la vie [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Be blessed

[jedi]

Re: Speaking in tongues and other interesting things

Pray on what? the ability to speak in tongues isn't it? That is what the assumption is. You assumed that because of my stance on the matter of tongues that I have never had the experience. BIG ASSumption. But that is okay, you didn't cause any conflict you just opened up a topic that was meat for debate there is a difference. But your returning tone again renks of assumption
but you are not cantankerous by any means, I am. I just like to discuss things and Accepted just loves a good debate. Too bad we don't take the time to read before we jump as usual. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]