Is there racism in the caribbean?

[tonic]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

" I do not speak carelessly or recklessly but with a define purpose of helping people, especially those of my race, to know, to understand and to realize themselves" spoken by Marcus Garvey.

Garvey also noted that the American Negroes(blacks) has a racial conciousness that the West Indian negroes(blacks) did not have this racial conciousness. Garvey also said the American blacks were the best organized and the most concious of all blacks in the world. Lacking that racial conciousness led to the failure of the UNIA in Jamaica.

Simple Man yes it came from Plato Republic and Laws but I added racist and racism to better explain my point.

H.O. did you know that Garvey also borrowed from Plato Republic and Laws? In school in Jamaica, I had to memorized part of the "I have a dream speech" but never any of Marcus Garvey' philosophy. In the US, I learned about being black and read the history of many historical blacks and for the first time heard all of the" I have a dream speech." Still, many Jamaicans tell me about Garvey without really studying his message and what he was really about. Garvey said that the caste system in America created a racial conciousness in American blacks that made them more racial conciousness than blacks in the West Indies. That is why I appreciated Sukuna inputs on caste system. Garvey said Jamaicans did not have the sufficent racial conciousness to appreciate his movement because they lived under a system that deny them that racial conciousness.

Is if that criticism is still valid for Caribbean people? Garvey also said knowledge to liberate blacks about Africa must come from the US, the land of present opportunity.

[Fledgist]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb]There was once plenty racism in Jamaica especially at Vernamfield where it was Mini Coopers and Ford Escorts doing the burning.
Nowadays racism is more rampant at Dover where the Japs have established their superiority with Mazdas, Nissans etc.
Though I hear that Dover is now up for sale putting racism out indefinitely. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/qb]

That' terrible....

Actually, there was racism at Vernamfield when that was an American base during World War II. The Americans assumed that they were back home where they could treat blacks with disrespect, only to discover than when they tried to impose Jim Crow on Jamaicans the Jamaicans rioted.

[rufian]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by blugiant:
[qb]black people cannot be racist so how can there be racism in countries that black people rule.[/qb]

so racism for you can only occur between black and white people.

Well then, from my own experience, ((I)) find mulatos even more racist than whites.

[Wahalla]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb]There was once plenty racism in Jamaica especially at Vernamfield where it was Mini Coopers and Ford Escorts doing the burning.
Nowadays racism is more rampant at Dover where the Japs have established their superiority with Mazdas, Nissans etc.
Though I hear that Dover is now up for sale putting racism out indefinitely. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/qb]

That' terrible....

Actually, there was racism at Vernamfield when that was an American base during World War II. The Americans assumed that they were back home where they could treat blacks with disrespect, only to discover than when they tried to impose Jim Crow on Jamaicans the Jamaicans rioted.[/qb]

Please expand on this incident... What happened how was it was resolved...

Note as ah Taino I am amused by you guys as you rearrange the chairs on the Titiinic deck..... note as a genocide victim I claim moral superiority....... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[rufian]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by tonic:
[qb]" I do not speak carelessly or recklessly but with a define purpose of helping people, especially those of my race, to know, to understand and to realize themselves" spoken by Marcus Garvey.

Garvey also noted that the American Negroes(blacks) has a racial conciousness that the West Indian negroes(blacks) did not have this racial conciousness. Garvey also said the American blacks were the best organized and the most concious of all blacks in the world. Lacking that racial conciousness led to the failure of the UNIA in Jamaica.

Simple Man yes it came from Plato Republic and Laws but I added racist and racism to better explain my point.

H.O. did you know that Garvey also borrowed from Plato Republic and Laws? In school in Jamaica, I had to memorized part of the "I have a dream speech" but never any of Marcus Garvey' philosophy. In the US, I learned about being black and read the history of many historical blacks and for the first time heard all of the" I have a dream speech." Still, many Jamaicans tell me about Garvey without really studying his message and what he was really about. Garvey said that the caste system in America created a racial conciousness in American blacks that made them more racial conciousness than blacks in the West Indies. That is why I appreciated Sukuna inputs on caste system. Garvey said Jamaicans did not have the sufficent racial conciousness to appreciate his movement because they lived under a system that deny them that racial conciousness.

Is if that criticism is still valid for Caribbean people? Garvey also said knowledge to liberate blacks about Africa must come from the US, the land of present opportunity.[/qb]

Well you got to compare the two groups of blacks. Obviously, the more culture remains, the more acceptance there will be for castes. In the Caribbean people tell of the caste system with pride. In the Caribbean people embrace every race, it is almost a requirement to be different and of a different race. Therefore....
In concluding, there is no racism in the Caribbean.

[yozey]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by tonic:
[qb] Garvey said that the caste system in America created a racial conciousness in American blacks that made them more racial conciousness than blacks in the West Indies.... Garvey said Jamaicans did not have the sufficent racial conciousness to appreciate his movement because they lived under a system that deny them that racial conciousness.[/qb]

We wont have a 'racial consciousness' that Garvey speaks of because in Jamaica there was never much of a fight for 'blackness.' In that, we never struggles with being black, our struggles were with being poor. We did not need to achieve black consciousness, we needed to achieve financial equality. And unlike America, skin color does not count towards that inequality as much.

This is why I have to say that racism in the Caribbean would not be, what would be is classism.

[tonic]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Since there was some confusion about Marcus Garvey's views on racism in Jamaica due to my posting from memory, I went back through the report I did on Garvey. In a black newspaper interview(sorry but I did not find the pages with the sources) Garvey said that in 1916 " Jamaicans were not sufficently racially concious to appreciate a racial movement because they lived under a common system of sociological hypocrispy that deprive them of that very racial concious."

Garvey was saying that there was racism in Jamaica but the Jamaican culture did not support the development of a racial conciosness by incorporating competing racial differences. Out of many one people.

Racism in Jamaica history.

1. Passin Fi white
A. free non white had to wear a blue cross sewn to their cloths
B. COLOUR CODING 0R SHADISM OF THE JAMAICANS-many Jamaicans accept this form of identification in order to feel closer to whites. Jamaicans are afraid of dealing with why this color coding of Jamaicans was imposed. The amusing part is that many Jamaicans get offended in the US when they are grouped with blacks even though they do not want to admit the privilege position of light skinned(red or brown) in Jamaica.
C. Paul Bogle
D. Black Jamaicans had to wait until 1944 to get full political right
E. dark skinned blacks in Jamaica had to protest discrimination in employment and education
F. all white school in Jamaica
G.Blacks people were not allowed to use some hotel
H.Jamaica Report to the United Nation in 1964 said that racial discrimination has not been eliminated from Jamaica
I.in the 1980, many Jamaicans said that Carole Guntley was too dark to appointed to a high profile position
J. read Q3210

There were many struggles with being blacks in JA. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME, TALK TO THE OLDER DARK SKINNED JAMAICANS BECAUSE OUR STORY HAS NOT BEEN TOLD. A LOT OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT JAMAICANS HISTORY DEM TELL ME. DEM EVEN TELL ME ABOUT THE TROLLY WAS USED TO RUN INNA KINGSTON.

[tonic]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

SimpleMan:
Most Jamaicans and people from the Caribbean are in denial about racism that is why I wrote about some of the history of racism in Jamaica above. Most Jamaicans want to ignored racism. The history of Jamaica from the enslavement of the Africans is a fight for blackness and how the fight was undermined.

I agree with you that we never struggle with being black. The struggle was about a majority black population struggling trying to be white. When you examine Garvey, he wanted blacks to struggle to be like white people. Why is it that the black majority have a higher rate of poverty if not racism? You forgot to consider how and why the class structure orginated and how does it still functions to maintain the status quo of black inequality.

[QUOTE]
<ul type="square">[*]" In the Caribbean, people embrace every race "[/list]
Sukuna:
If that is true, how do you explain the racial conflicts in Trinidad, Jamaica and some of the other islands? I agree with you that some people in the Caribbean tell of the caste system with pride but that is because most of them do not know the history of it. Garvey knew there was racism that is why he started the UNIA in Jamaica.

[blugiant]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

sukuna mi find white people more racist than the mulatto. mulatoo dem just confusebecause dem no know what dem is.

[sapodil]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

mulattoes are only confused once they leave the safety of the class system that preserves their status in the Caribbean. they get confused when they leave and go to North America, for example, and they realize they are considered black and have no greater status than the darkest skinned blacks (at least, to white society). then they start having identity crises, because they really don't see nor want to see themselves as black.

[blugiant]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

mulatoo are confused in jamaica too.

[blugiant]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

mulattoes in Jamaica tink dem better dan the black man but dem accept dat dem no betta dan de white man. dat why dem unda dem.

[samuel]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

i have come across most of the ideas expressed and experiences related here many times .however, they bring to my mind somethimg i came across in the gleaner a year or so ago : the reproduction of an article from the 1950s,reporting that bank staff were threatening to strike if blacks were employed !!!
how 'white' the offended employees were, was not stated .

[rufian]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tonic:
[qb]SimpleMan:
Most Jamaicans and people from the Caribbean are in denial about racism that is why I wrote about some of the history of racism in Jamaica above. Most Jamaicans want to ignored racism. The history of Jamaica from the enslavement of the Africans is a fight for blackness and how the fight was undermined.

I agree with you that we never struggle with being black. The struggle was about a majority black population struggling trying to be white. When you examine Garvey, he wanted blacks to struggle to be like white people. Why is it that the black majority have a higher rate of poverty if not racism? You forgot to consider how and why the class structure orginated and how does it still functions to maintain the status quo of black inequality.

<ul type="square">[*]" In the Caribbean, people embrace every race "[/list]
Sukuna:
If that is true, how do you explain the racial conflicts in Trinidad, Jamaica and some of the other islands? I agree with you that some people in the Caribbean tell of the caste system with pride but that is because most of them do not know the history of it. Garvey knew there was racism that is why he started the UNIA in Jamaica.[/qb]

Open your eyes little wider boss.
Racial conflict is only same sex [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Then you explain to me why there are so many duglas in Trinidad. There the conflicts might be higher than elsewhere and it is exactly there that the mixed population is higher in ratio than elsewhere.
The very black conscious of men (towards racist against whites) that I have met claim not to like whites but oh boy, dem na have nothing against white women. Ana rasta me a talk [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[rufian]

Re: Is there racism in the caribbean?

Originally posted by blugiant:
[qb]sukuna mi find white people more racist than the mulatto. mulatoo dem just confusebecause dem no know what dem is.[/qb]

maybe because mulatos find favour in your eyes [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Look me got first hand experience seen? Da mek me say (I). They might be confused but dem confusion is no excuse, it is plain racism.
They act out their whiteness more than whites, that is what I am saying.
Brought up with one of them and I have been living in a nazi environment. I tell you, with the mulato it was worse. That is why me think them should marry mulatos like themselves and not have children with blacks like they do out of their inferior complex for blacks or confusion as you would call it.

And they have a lot of companies that only hire mulatos and such but never blacks in the Caribbean. Is this not racism? Plenty companies on my island are willing to hire Dominicans(from Santa Domingo) who can hardly speak English and only graduated primary school than to hire blacks with A' Levels - is this not racism?