islam in jamaica...

[RollinCalf]

Re: islam in jamaica...

Reb, apparently things get out of hand in the Philippines every year: http://www.inq7.net/reg/2002/mar/31/text/reg_1-1-p.htm

with nails and all:

[musa]

Re: islam in jamaica...

peace,
thanks everybody for their contributions.
i'll try to answer to the different questions:
-shiites are a separate fraction and some of their behaviour has no place in ortodox islam. self inflicted pain was very popular in christianity as it was considered a way to feel closer to the sufferings of prophet jesus (peace be upon him).
the founding episode of shia is the martyrdom of hussain and hassan and to onor that shiites hurt themselves, once again i am positive there's no ancestral worshiping in it but the extent to what they would do to honour these martyrs is way behyond the limits of what a sunni muslim (like myself) considers acceptable. even pilgrimage to graves, carrying immages etc. are not accepted in sunni islam but are common among shiites.
-during the islamic domination of spain (that lasted almost 8 centuries) jews and christian were living, working and contributing their full to the muslims and were occupying places of higest honor. when the christian king and queen isabel decided to do some ethnic cleansing ("holy" inquisition) jews were welcomed by muslims in the islamic countries of northern africa and middle east were they still reside. the enmity beetwen muslims and jews started when the land of palestine was taken away from their inhabitant.
that said it is true that some regimes in muslim countries discriminate and oppress minorities but that is not the teaching of the holy qu'ran nor the example of prophet muhammad (peace be upon him).
the holy qur'an is the standard by wich islam should be judged not the behaviour of people.
-kingston has a good number of muslims, all praise to Allah, most of them are jamaicans of african origin who choose islam. some born muslims from abroad are there as well but are way less dedicated to their faith. in 98 kingston had 3 masjids (places of worship) and 9 or 10 more were spread acros the country. the number may have increased since.
one love,

[rufian]

Re: islam in jamaica...

my curiousity is not quenched yet, so why is there the focus on mohamed's decendants? you might notice that the rituals you are refering to as being the exceptions can be viewed upon differently.

"but only these who directly come from the family of the prophet himself"

"commemorate certain particular episodes in the life (and death) of old time people"

especially that
"some of their behaviour has no place in ortodox islam"

With how they honour their fore-fathers, and grave visits, I just cant see this other than worshiping their past and not allah in that instance.

hmmm, [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
what is ancestral worship to you musa? and what acts are a part of it? if this pilgrimage was ancestral worship to you, what would it be like?

[RollinCalf]

Re: islam in jamaica...

Musa, can I tell you why Islam will never catch on in our likkle rock ?

Jamaican women.

I don't know a single one that is ready fi mine baby 24/7, run backa man and kip dem mout shet.

[musa]

Re: islam in jamaica...

peace,
rolling calf, i am not sure i understand what you mean ('member english is not my native language, let alone jamaican english) but you would be surprised to know that there are many jamaican sisters in islam i personally met years back in ja.
dear lady sukuna. to me ancestal worship is when a dead human being becomes the object of worship and rites are performed for him or her instead of for Allah, God Most High. if that is the case with shiites it's a matter of their own conscience that i can't peep into. Allah knows best. what i am sure of is that any object of worship beside the Creator is shirk, (that is ascribing partners to Allah) the most serious sin.
whether they're prophets, saint, kings or queens or whatever that is the negation of the basic concept of islam: UNITY.
unity of the Creator and unity ofHis creation.
one love,

[rufian]

Re: islam in jamaica...

Originally posted by musa:
[qb] peace,

dear lady sukuna. to me ancestal worship is when a dead human being becomes the object of worship and rites are performed for him or her instead of for Allah, God Most High. ...[/qb]

yes musa is that me see dem doing. arent the children of mohamed the prophet dead? are these pictures of allah that they are walking around with? to whose graves are they going to? not to their dead? and a who de whip lash fa?
thanks for you input anyhow, was informative.

[RollinCalf]

Re: islam in jamaica...

Let me put it this way boss - Nanny would not have worn a veil nor walked behind any man. We live with her descendants...an love dem to !

http://www.jamaicaway.com/Heroes/NannyPage.html

[Kishi]

Re: islam in jamaica...

Jamaica would be better with more ethnic and racial diversity. The majority are Black and Christian. I know some East Indians not related to me, and they talk about Christianity so great, but talk about Hinduism and Islam so badly. Being raised in an environment with large diversity is great, so you can get out of your little box.

And to make it worse, the East Indians, Arabs, Chinese, and Portuguese in Jamaica have done almost little to nothing to try and preserve cultures. Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, and Buddhism is only 3.5% of Jamaica, and that's SMALL! Ultimately all converting to Christianity and intermingling.

So that's why anytime I speak with a Guyanese or Trini friend, I become embarrassed because most of our Asian population know nothing of their culture.

[JABrownin']

Re: islam in jamaica...

Originally posted by musa:
[qb] to me ancestal worship is when a dead human being becomes the object of worship and rites are performed for him or her instead of for Allah, God Most High. [/qb]

This is ancestral worship, I learnt about it in my class, its part of African and chinese religions.

You have people in Africa sacrificing little children to worship their dead relatives..........nice

[JABrownin']

Re: islam in jamaica...

Originally posted by JAIndian06:
[qb] Jamaica would be better with more ethnic and racial diversity. The majority are Black and Christian. I know some East Indians not related to me, and they talk about Christianity so great, but talk about Hinduism and Islam so badly. Being raised in an environment with large diversity is great, so you can get out of your little box.

And to make it worse, the East Indians, Arabs, Chinese, and Portuguese in Jamaica have done almost little to nothing to try and preserve cultures. Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, and Buddhism is only 3.5% of Jamaica, and that's SMALL! Ultimately all converting to Christianity and intermingling.

So that's why anytime I speak with a Guyanese or Trini friend, I become embarrassed because most of our Asian population know nothing of their culture. [/qb]

How much have black Jamaicans kept from African culture? Not much, they weren't allowed to. The way I see it, blacks and indians in Jamaica were stripped of their cultures and through intermixing etc have created a new culture, along with aspects of British, Portuguese, Spanish, chinese cultures etc

What do indo guyanese and indo-trinidadians think of indo-jamaicans?

[rufian]

Re: islam in jamaica...

ja, dat psycologist didn't do a good job ha? you need my service? DWL [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

musa if you are a roman, why you not roman catholic musa? just curious.

[JABrownin']

Re: islam in jamaica...

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb] ja, dat psycologist didn't do a good job ha? you need my service? DWL [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

musa if you are a roman, why you not roman catholic musa? just curious. [/qb]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Kishi]

Re: islam in jamaica...

The East Indians from other countries feel Indo-Jamaicans are uncultured and unexposed, and don't care. When I talk to other East Indians from Jamaica, they know NOTHING about Indian culture, and it is embarrassing, because they don't care at all!

[musa]

Re: islam in jamaica...

peace,
i am not a roman chatolic simply because i don't believe in their teaching. just that easy.
i see the truth in islam and i stick to it.
it would be sad if people should be convicted to their country's or family's predominant belief, wouldn't it?
that would mean man would have no freedom of choice and their doom would be written by the place they were born in.
Allah knows better than that.
(and you and i also, lady)
one love,

[rufian]

Re: islam in jamaica...

none of us are free to choose anything, we are all influenced, some negatively and some positively. we are also incapable of knowing which is which.