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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Esther, DC: My pleasure... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Esther, DC: My pleasure... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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aka ChurchDude. I want that moniker back! Until then....
"Sometimes you have to let go to see if there was anything worth holding on to" ~ Anon -
Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
I am not the least bit surprised that you should take this stand, but that in it self can be taken two ways. Suffice it to say that your original post is what I responded to, and obviously I was not totally out in left field as I was not the only one that was taken aback at your observation of Christian women. The title of this thread coupled with your first post clearly compares non-christian females with Christian females saying as how men in your circles view the two often admiring the the non-christian because she has her act together far more often than the Christian woman. My response was to your view of the non-christian female.Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] DT: My sentiments as well.
Jedi: You might be in for a long wait as I am content to leave your response as is...without comments. [/qb]
I have deliberately focused on blacks since this forum and website for that matter is predominantly black and the issues surrounding the matter of finding a mate has been brought up by black women. A past discussion of the absence of black men in the church only highlighted that fact, and with the possible exception of perhaps one person who seem to give the impression that she is specifically looking to find a white Christian mate every other post on the subject has centered around finding a suitable black Christian man in the church. So it was with that mind set that I responded to your post.
No matter which angle I take this from however, something does not sit well with me regarding your viewpoint particularly coming from a black man. And since I am at liberty to comment further, I say this bearing in mind that historically it has been the black woman who has shouldered the responsibility for her family while the majority of the men disappeared or landed themselves in jail. That was true then and it is still quite true now. The very idea of expecting!...I find ironic if not galling, if we are only speaking of black men/black women here. All of a sudden after all of this time suddenly the black man now comes into his own and he expects...from the one who has been carrying the ball and chain all along! Now it appears he is raising the standards to make it even more difficult for his counterpart to reach him. It is probably no wonder he cannot be found at all being that quite often he has found it fit to marry into another race all together, having tarred and feathered his own without giving her the first opportunity.
I have questioned more than once what kind of females you and your circle of friends are exposed to for several reasons, one being that they do not fit the picture of any Christian woman that I know. Another is that you may not have noticed but the bar has been up for a long time for black females particularly black Christian females. You guys just haven't come up to us as yet. Quite frankly on the career/education scale the black woman far outweighs her man. But then as you pointed out the color issue later on, and I now gather in retrospect that you may not have been speaking of black women only, which raises another issue in my mind. If this discussion is not only about black Christian women but about Christian women vs. non-christian women in general, then there is another gross oversight here. Until you can show statistics to bolster up your claims I remain firm on my stand that your observation is biased and based on the small group that you are acquainted with and does not adequately represent the majority of Christian vs. non-Christian women. I say this in part because I live in the US where the majority of all women are Christian.
Futhermore while I absolutely see nothing wrong with any woman reaching for her highest potential, whether Christian or non-christian, this cannot be the prerequisite for forming any union, which your original post clearly suggests. The expectation of the Christian man is to be the head of his household and to provide for his wife and family, his wife being his helper, and not the other way around. So even though two people of equal standing professionally and finacially may see fit to marry, that does not excuse him of his primary responsibility before God and his family. To suggest raising the bar on your (the male's) expectations of a mate might seem to suggest gain or profit as foremost... which has no place in a Godly union.Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
*LOL* [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] DT: My sentiments as well.
Jedi: You might be in for a long wait as I am content to leave your response as is...without comments. [/qb]Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Jedi, I went back and read CEW's initial post because I wanted to see how it's possible for me to miss his "christian women bashing". Needless to say, I still don't see.
He is simply saying we (some christian women) should stop sitting on our behinds and not do anything to improve the quality of our lives yet expecting a good, decent, christian, employed, ambitious man to come our way because we are leaving it in God's hands. Hmmmmm could it be there's a problem there since some are still waiting????
Also, personally speaking, as a christian woman, I have no problem allowing my christian husband to be the head of our household however that is not going to stop me from being ambitious. When I go to my husband and say honey, it's time for me to get that pretty little Mercedes Benz that I've been admiring, I won't expect the answer to be, sorry but we can't afford it because we only have one income. No sah! But that's just me.
Seems to me, you like to argue your point without really reading and seeing what's being said. I don't see this post as a "bashing" post and at least (((CEW))) had the guts to say something that needed to be said. Some of us use God as an excuse because wi too darn lazy!!!
Again I say, "Faith with works is DEAD".Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]Yes, I do think it is. I recall not that long ago a Christian female telling me she had to go pray about what color car to buyOriginally posted by Dailybread:
[qb]Nodding in agreement! Could it be a teaching problem in various doctrins [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]True enough, but the people still had to go out and gather it themselves [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/qb]
I mean, does God really care about the color of one's car??? You would be surprised at how much some people spiritualize their lives. [/qb]
Talk about being so heavenly minded we're no earthly good! On the other hand, I know a minister in church that told his sons (pre-teen at the time) that the Lord would come before it was time for them to go to college. The boys are now men, and have low paying jobs because not only did they not go to college, they failed to graduate high school. I agree with the erroneous teaching concept, but it's not always doctrinal. Sometimes it's just one person's distorted view passed on via their families.
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Gideon was going to war!! Would he have fleeced to decide whether to buy this ox or that ox depending on the colour of its coat?Originally posted by (H)AnnA(H):
[qb]Rom 12:3 suggests that a measure of faith has been given to every believer. ( I have not found where it was taken back) I did not say that Gideon had no faith - it's just that some people prefer to take that approach and I say whatever works for themOriginally posted by CEW:
[qb]Fleecing is not faith. Hebrews 11:1, "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.", and verse 6: "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".Originally posted by (H)AnnA(H):
...Instead of making a decision they say "let us 'fleece' like Gideon did."
I say whatver works for you. No one knows your relationship with your Lord better than you do.
Active faith does require works so one cannot say "whatever works for you". Regardless of what one's relationship with God is, without the God kind of faith, it is *impossible* to please Him. [/qb]
Gideon's decision to 'Fleece' (judges 6:36-40)worked for him just as Abraham's decision to take his son to the mountain worked for him. They both ended up where they needed to be - in a position for the Lord to prove Himself to them.
To categorically state that 'fleecing is not faith' is not statement I will make. God came through for Gideon. He met him where he was. God gave to every believer 'a measure of faith' therefore we all have some faith. Where you are in Him is different from where I am with in Him.
You may have a different method but the bottom line is that we ALL have faith. Not everyone got their names listed in the Faith Chapter but that does not mean that only those whose names were listed had faith
In terms of the strength of one's faith, that is a totally different matter. If Gideon had no faith, especially in a God whom he could not see, why would he have allowed the Lord to lead him?
As I said before, "no one knows your relationship with your Lord better than you do. Whatever works for you"
I do not believe I have the authority to detrmine who has faith and who has not or what is faith and what is not.
In the same chapter of Romans, we see the different gifts and are taught to use in proportion to our faith. I believe Gideon was excercising faith when he made the requests of God. I believe he would not have gone forward without the confirmation that God was with Him
I wil say 'whatever works for you' with confidence because it has worked for me . I cannot dictate the direction that your walk with the Lord will take. We are all unique individuals and our relationships with him will reflect that.
Some things that he requires of us are basic.Some others are specific to who we are. I agree with you that active faith requires work Gideon placed the fleece on the threshing floor as he said he would have. He acted. He could have simply said Lord give me a sign but he acted. He did not call down fire from the sky nor did he make an axehead float but he acted. He did something that caused the Lord to respond to him.
The measure of faith that we have been given I believe will grow the more we use it. I believe Gideon's faith was strengthened after that day and I also believe it was easier for him to trust the Lord after that episode
Some persons get off to a shaky start sometimes but with a gentle nudge in the right direction they can get where they need to be in the Lord.
edited to correct grammar thought to taught } [/qb]Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
I agree completely [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] I am not sure if it is all in my mind, but for some reason, most of the females I know that seem to have it all together - so to speak - are non-christians. For the most part they are very confident/self-assured, have clearly defined goals with practical plans to accomplish those goals, and thier perspective on life is simply rather refreshing.
[/qb]Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Compry:
[QB] Jedi, I went back and read CEW's initial post because I wanted to see how it's possible for me to miss his "christian women bashing". Needless to say, I still don't see.
Jedi: Which comes as no surprise to me at all.
He is simply saying we (some christian women) should stop sitting on our behinds and not do anything to improve the quality of our lives yet expecting a good, decent, christian, employed, ambitious man to come our way because we are leaving it in God's hands.
Jedi: I know what he said and what he later said to justify what he initially said thank you I have already responded and aired my feelings at length on the topic and I do not wish to further belabor the point. Suffice it only to say that I maintain my position and that is due in large part to the fact that I see through different eyes than you.
Hmmmmm could it be there's a problem there since some are still waiting????
Jedi: Is that true for you? Quite frankly I see many other problems affecting the black man/black woman relationship Christian or non-Christian to take that as the only reason why some are still waiting.
Also, personally speaking, as a christian woman, I have no problem allowing my christian husband to be the head of our household however that is not going to stop me from being ambitious. When I go to my husband and say honey, it's time for me to get that pretty little Mercedes Benz that I've been admiring, I won't expect the answer to be, sorry but we can't afford it because we only have one income. No sah! But that's just me.
Jedi: So the carnal/material does play a very heavy roll in your perception of the perfect marriage. Something that I take issue with which is probably the single highest reason for the rate of divorce being what it is. Simply put - The matter of where we place our values before our marriages and God. .
Seems to me, you like to argue your point without really reading and seeing what's being said.
Jedi: I am not very surprised that you take this position where CEW is concerned, but unlike him I don't need a cheering section to air what I feel, since I worship only God, and am at liberty to disagree with whomever I wish. And for your information I have read it all and what I say stands.
I don't see this post as a "bashing" post and at
Jedi: Your words not mine.Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Jedi, many other issues may be facing us. However, I will not sit back and accept anything medicore in MY life. I have no problem attracting christian and non-christian men because I am very confident and ambitious. As a matter of fact, I had a very disturbing conversation with a non-jamaican male about a week ago. He commented that he does not know very many Jamaican females like me. He commented that they *all* live on welfare and depend on men to take care of them. I had to dismiss him and tell him that he was obviously hanging with the wrong crowd. Nonetheless, that's his perception of us.Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]Is that true for you? Quite frankly I see many other problems affecting the black man/black woman relationship Christian or non-Christian to take that as the only reason why some are still waiting. [/qb]
Call it what you want because as long as I pay my 10% every pay cheque and give to whoever needs what I do with the rest of my money is my business. If I want to live in a beautiful *house* and drive a nice car and wear the best clothes, I will that and continue to thank God for making it all possible. Jeremiah 29 verse 11 states, For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. He made that promise to me and I refuse to call Him a liar.Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]So the carnal/material does play a very heavy roll in your perception of the perfect marriage. Something that I take issue with which is probably the single highest reason for the rate of divorce being what it is. Simply put - The matter of where we place our values before our marriages and God. [/qb]
And you say that as if it's a bad thing.Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]I am not very surprised that you take this position where CEW is concerned, but unlike him I don't need a cheering section to air what I feel, since I worship only God, and am at liberty to disagree with whomever I wish. And for your information I have read it all and what I say stands. [/qb]Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
You go, girl! "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (3 John 1:2) No point reading it if you are not going to believe it, and no point believing it if you are are not going to apply it. BTW, am I sitting in the right section cheering you on? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]Originally posted by Compry:
Call it what you want because as long as I pay my 10% every pay cheque and give to whoever needs what I do with the rest of my money is my business. If I want to live in a beautiful *house* and drive a nice car and wear the best clothes, I will that and continue to thank God for making it all possible. Jeremiah 29 verse 11 states, For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." He made that promise to me and I refuse to call Him a liar.aka ChurchDude. I want that moniker back! Until then....
"Sometimes you have to let go to see if there was anything worth holding on to" ~ AnonComment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
CSOriginally posted by jcanseabee:
[qb]Gideon was going to war!! Would he have fleeced to decide whether to buy this ox or that ox depending on the colour of its coat? [/qb]Originally posted by (H)AnnA(H):
[qb]Rom 12:3 suggests that a measure of faith has been given to every believer. ( I have not found where it was taken back) I did not say that Gideon had no faith - it's just that some people prefer to take that approach and I say whatever works for themOriginally posted by CEW:
[qb]Fleecing is not faith. Hebrews 11:1, "...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.", and verse 6: "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".Originally posted by (H)AnnA(H):
...Instead of making a decision they say "let us 'fleece' like Gideon did."
I say whatver works for you. No one knows your relationship with your Lord better than you do.
Active faith does require works so one cannot say "whatever works for you". Regardless of what one's relationship with God is, without the God kind of faith, it is *impossible* to please Him. [/qb]
Gideon's decision to 'Fleece' (judges 6:36-40)worked for him just as Abraham's decision to take his son to the mountain worked for him. They both ended up where they needed to be - in a position for the Lord to prove Himself to them.
To categorically state that 'fleecing is not faith' is not statement I will make. God came through for Gideon. He met him where he was. God gave to every believer 'a measure of faith' therefore we all have some faith. Where you are in Him is different from where I am with in Him.
You may have a different method but the bottom line is that we ALL have faith. Not everyone got their names listed in the Faith Chapter but that does not mean that only those whose names were listed had faith
In terms of the strength of one's faith, that is a totally different matter. If Gideon had no faith, especially in a God whom he could not see, why would he have allowed the Lord to lead him?
As I said before, "no one knows your relationship with your Lord better than you do. Whatever works for you"
I do not believe I have the authority to detrmine who has faith and who has not or what is faith and what is not.
In the same chapter of Romans, we see the different gifts and are taught to use in proportion to our faith. I believe Gideon was excercising faith when he made the requests of God. I believe he would not have gone forward without the confirmation that God was with Him
I wil say 'whatever works for you' with confidence because it has worked for me . I cannot dictate the direction that your walk with the Lord will take. We are all unique individuals and our relationships with him will reflect that.
Some things that he requires of us are basic.Some others are specific to who we are. I agree with you that active faith requires work Gideon placed the fleece on the threshing floor as he said he would have. He acted. He could have simply said Lord give me a sign but he acted. He did not call down fire from the sky nor did he make an axehead float but he acted. He did something that caused the Lord to respond to him.
The measure of faith that we have been given I believe will grow the more we use it. I believe Gideon's faith was strengthened after that day and I also believe it was easier for him to trust the Lord after that episode
Some persons get off to a shaky start sometimes but with a gentle nudge in the right direction they can get where they need to be in the Lord.
edited to correct grammar thought to taught } [/qb]
I am not sure I have gotten your point. For clarification, I wrote what I did to say that persons will get results based on how they view their relationship with the Lord
I did not live in the time of Gideon. This was merely an illustration that we are not all on the same level as christians. Some persons faith may be stronger than others. Gideon did what he felt was necessary to get the results he needed from God. If he wanted to fleece to go to war or fleece to buy an ox who gave us the right to determine whether or not he should or should not have? Gideon did what he wanted to do because that was where his level of faith was.
Why throw stones? Who has died and made us God? Who has given us the right to determine the level of faith that someone ought to have? If fleecing will not work for you or if it is something you choose not to believe in, then walk around it. If your faith is so strong that you don't need to prove God that way then do what you need to. That's why God gave us choices.
I don't have a problem with people who choose to 'wait on the Lord'. If that gets them where they want to be in Him why should I make it my duty to judge? He is the all-knowing sovereign God. Exploring the what it means to 'Wait on the Lord' is a totally different issue.
My point is and will remain that your relationship with the Lord is best known by Himself and you. Do what works for you. The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth. If we seek guidance, then guidance He will give.
I will end my contribution to this topic by saying that we each need to seek more and more of Him. The more we allow ourselves to be drawn close to Him is the more we will be like Him and the more we will grow in Him.
Some of us are like Abraham and some are like Gideon. It does not mean that one or the other is 'better' in His eyes. It simply means we are different. The fact that we are different means we will not agree on all points.Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Ditto!Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]You go, girl! "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (3 John 1:2) No point reading it if you are not going to believe it, and no point believing it if you are are not going to apply it. [/qb]Originally posted by Compry:
Call it what you want because as long as I pay my 10% every pay cheque and give to whoever needs what I do with the rest of my money is my business. If I want to live in a beautiful *house* and drive a nice car and wear the best clothes, I will that and continue to thank God for making it all possible. Jeremiah 29 verse 11 states, For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." He made that promise to me and I refuse to call Him a liar.Comment
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Re: The Christian Guy and Non-Christian Females...
Surely you jest.Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]Jedi, many other issues may be facing us. However, I will not sit back and accept anything medicore in MY life.Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]Is that true for you? Quite frankly I see many other problems affecting the black man/black woman relationship Christian or non-Christian to take that as the only reason why some are still waiting. [/qb]
Jedi: And who was asking you to?
I have no problem attracting christian and non-christian men because I am very confident and ambitious.
Jedi: How wonderful!
As a matter of fact, I had a very disturbing conversation with a non-jamaican male about a week ago. He commented that he does not know very many Jamaican females like me. He commented that they *all* live on welfare and depend on men to take care of them. I had to dismiss him and tell him that he was obviously hanging with the wrong crowd. Nonetheless, that's his perception of us.
{[i]Jedi: He must have been hanging with your friend's crowd. Seems they seem to feel the same way about some Christian women too, wonder if they were confusing them with Christian women. Things must be really rough for black women in Cananda in general. Just the same I would tend to feel pity for them than beating my chest about how much better off and ambitious I am than them.}
Call it what you want because as long as I pay my 10% every pay cheque and give to whoever needs what I do with the rest of my money is my business.Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]So the carnal/material does play a very heavy roll in your perception of the perfect marriage. Something that I take issue with which is probably the single highest reason for the rate of divorce being what it is. Simply put - The matter of where we place our values before our marriages and God. [/qb]
If I want to live in a beautiful *house* and drive a nice car and wear the best clothes, I will that and continue to thank God for making it all possible. Jeremiah 29 verse 11 states, For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. He made that promise to me and I refuse to call Him a liar.
{Jedi: Viva la prosperite!. May the Lord continue to richly bless you
"Godliness with contentment is of great gain" says the apostle Paul. I applaud those women who are content to wait on the Lord for a mate. To do otherwise is to short circuit the power of God in our lives. One thing I am very certain of and it is this; a successful marriage cannot be bought at any price, and while education and money may ease some of the strain of day to day living it certainly cannot replace the power that drives a healthy marriage and that is love, first of God and then of each other. I have seen enough of both extremes to know that the secret to a successful union was neither money nor education, though some may belief that that in and of itself might be. Just the same my sisters if you are not commanding a great deal of self esteem, education or money today, seek to better yourself to be sure but rest assured the Lord it is that is the giver of all good gifts, including a good husband and a solid marriage. "Wait on Him."!.}
And you say that as if it's a bad thing. [/qb]Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]I am not very surprised that you take this position where CEW is concerned, but unlike him I don't need a cheering section to air what I feel, since I worship only God, and am at liberty to disagree with whomever I wish. And for your information I have read it all and what I say stands. [/qb]Comment
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