Ask the unbeliever

[M]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Thank you for your answers.

What if someone believes in spirituality or an immanent spiritual force but not in a god or gods or specific invisible beings per se - would you classify them as an unbeliever or a believer?

[rebelgirl]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by Bandanna:
[qb]My question for you "non-believers" [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] is...

Have you ever doubted your disbelief?
Has there ever been a time in your life where you experienced something, or someone who made you think there just might be a God out there after all??? [/qb]

Hi Bandanna

The answer to the first part of your question is yes absolutely for me. I entertain doubt all the time, doubt leads to questions, questions lead to introspection, which doesn't always lead to answers, but i get to understand myself a little better in the process anyway, and sometimes I do get answers.

I'm not sure if there has been anything that has made me think for certain there is a God but certainly there have been things that have made me question the nature of reality, and whether this is the only plain of existence. I have experienced apparitions, and unexplained phenomenon that have left me with some serious question sometimes about my own sanity [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

One thing that had me asking myself questions about a God for a period of time was when I was about 12. i had a dream, in my dream I was told I assume about the nature of reality and what life and the universe were all about (if anything at all) I'm not sure what I was told but when I awoke i had such a sense of understanding and peace and I felt for the only time in my life that I had no questions, that everything I ever wanted to know was answered in that short dream. as I sat there when I woke up, a little part of me asked so what was the answer? what was said? and all of a sudden my mind went blank and I didn't know. i paced the room the entire night trying to remember the dream and could not recall a thing except that it was some old man like character that had talked with me. It was the most frustrating feeling I've had in my whole life. what the hell was it, that for some moments made my life entirely complete and made me feel such inner peace. I had considered in the hours and days that followed that just maybe there was some greater being that had communicated something very important to me. for a few years it really frustrated me, and i wasn't sure what to think or believe about there being something greater than us.

It wasn't until i came very close to death some years later that it stopped bothering me. At that time the personal realization I came to is that the answer to the ultimate questions (such as is there a God? why are we here?) wasn't all that important, what was important to me anyway was the journey, and somewhere deep inside me I still feel i know, but i no longer feel it necessary to have those answers in the palm of my hand. I'm quite sure that when I die they will be answered even if they are answered by nothing and I simply cease to exist that in itself is an answer.

i don't believe in a God now because I do not see a God, but at the same time I won't say that one does not exist because that is one of those questions there is no way of knowing the answer to. some people feel like they have the answer, just as i feel deep inside somewhere i have it too. and personally i think that their answers are as valid to them as mine are to me. the thing that matters most to me is that i truly feel with all my being that I am traveling the right path in my life. but i will never claim that I am right about God or anything for anyone but me. a healthy dose of doubt keeps me humble and somewhat excepting of all those other paths that could be have real tangible answer to those ultimate questions about the nature of being and whether there is a God.

Sorry it was such a long reply [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[rebelgirl]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by M:
[qb] Thank you for your answers.

What if someone believes in spirituality or an immanent spiritual force but not in a god or gods or specific invisible beings per se - would you classify them as an unbeliever or a believer? [/qb]

In my opinion I would say that is somewhat a personal decision on your part do you consider yourself a believer or a non believer? someone i think Kumba pointed out in one thread that everyone believes in something which is technically true so one could classify us all as believers in something, but in the sense i used it I was strictly referring to the idea of a deity with consciousness.

Me I believe in the connectedness of all things, energy does not disappear so I believe that all things are part of a force (although force is not the best word) of energy. Although not certain I do also believe that awareness of this is possible, however I do not believe in a higher consciousness that controls or is responsible for this. It just is, without control or purpose, and it is all of us and everything yet not defined by one thing in particular.

So in that since i to am a believer but not in Gods that require worship or that make decisions over our world and universe. this is why i refer to myself as an unbeliever, I found it became to confusing because it was not in line with what most people consider belief.

I am considered an unbeliever by most believers in God and it is easier in the long run for understanding of just what it is i do believe in and what i don't to adopt that label.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by M:

What if someone believes in spirituality or an immanent spiritual force but not in a god or gods or specific invisible beings per se - would you classify them as an unbeliever or a believer?

Hmm, well what is a "spiritual force." Sounds a little like an unseen something, with maybe a mind of its own? And it does have the word "spirit" in it. And we all know that spirits are invisible.

[M]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by rebel:
[qb] In my opinion I would say that is somewhat a personal decision on your part do you consider yourself a believer or a non believer? [/qb]

I don't really know the answer to that one, since I am still not that sure what an unbeliever is.

[M]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by M:

What if someone believes in spirituality or an immanent spiritual force but not in a god or gods or specific invisible beings per se - would you classify them as an unbeliever or a believer?

Hmm, well what is a "spiritual force." Sounds a little like an unseen something, with maybe a mind of its own? And it does have the word "spirit" in it. And we all know that spirits are invisible. [/qb]

So you would classify someone who believes in a spiritual force as a believer? I am just inferring this from your answer, but I could be wrong.

I asked this question originally because MG classified herself as a nonbeliever, but apparently believes in spirit:

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]
i think the mind (spirit, emotions, mentality) are connected to the body at a physical level. [/qb]

So I am still not sure what an unbeliever vs. a believer is.

[rebelgirl]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Well M best i can do to help besides my previous comments is refer back to the good old dictionary [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

unbeliever:
1 : one that does not believe : an incredulous person : DOUBTER, SKEPTIC
2 : one that does not believe in a particular religious faith


believer
Main Entry: believe

1 a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2 : to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so>
transitive senses

- believer noun

Don't know if that helps any

[M]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

OK, thanks Rebel. My brain doesn't operate that well when I am at work anyway [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] . On the way home, I remembered that I believe in this:





No words, no dieties, no spirits are involved [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] .

Whether that makes me a believer or unbeliever for purposes of this thread - who knows? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Vonnie]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Okay, as a christian if I invite you to church service would you accept and why?

As an unbeleiver, when you are faced with overwelming situations how do you deal with it.

During the 911 tragedy, alot of people where turning their thoughts to God why do you think that was.

As a foot note: As a christian I am very happy and at peace with myself.

[accepted77]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by Bandanna:
[qb] Ok, so I rarely come in this forum, but this topic caught my eye...

My question for you "non-believers" [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] is...

Have you ever doubted your disbelief?
Has there ever been a time in your life where you experienced something, or someone who made you think there just might be a God out there after all??? [/qb]

Very interesting question, Bandana.

I would like to add a few of my own,

1. Do any non believer consider the christian walk too difficult to live?
2. Would living a christian life conflict with your personal wants, needs?
3. Which christian ways would you not want to follow?
4. Are there any christians you know who really live up to the title, christian?
I have a few more but I'll wait my turn.

[Israelites]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Great thread Rebel!

Anyways, I don't have much of a question, but more of a reply, kinda why I believe. Since I was a child, I noticed that EVERY single culture that has existed has had one thing in common, they all believed in God. Now some did have multiple deities(but even Christians have 'angels'), but they also all had one main "Godhead". Then, looking at these different religions, I noticed how much they have in common, ie, many of them have a story about a great flood, an original creation, etc. and even the similarities in festivals, such as the Native Americans celebrated the new moon, which is a monthly Jewish Festival as well.
The Old Testament tells of incence burning in the temple in order to carry the peoples' prayers to God, as the Native Americans would smoke a peace pipe because the tobbacco would do the exact same thing! To me the only explanation for this is that it is no coincidence, the very same God spoke to each of these peoples and gave them their traditions to follow and worship Him in, each in their own ways.

Anyways, hasn't anyone else ever noticed this???

[Ochigal]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

WOw...Great Thread Rebel...Really great and all the posts from both the believers, non-beleivers and the undecideds have been really great to read and contemplate.

I guess I am alot like M in the sense that I am not sure what I am...I know I am not a christian...but I do think of myself as spiritual. I think that there is some form of a power in this bizarre thing we call life. But I think that power comes from within each of us...it works in harmony with the earth and the sun and the moon and the stars. Science plays a big role also. I sometimes wish I had more time to study it all to give me a better sense of it all...

To answer one question...

Originally posted by Yom:
[qb] Okay, as a christian if I invite you to church service would you accept and why? [/qb]

YES, I would go...I do go sometimes when invited, because as much as I dont beleive in the whole God "father of Jesus" concept...sometimes I find myself wanting to beleive...only becuase maybe then some of my questions would be answered...but honestly...I just come away more confused. I keep thinking "there must be something I am missing" How can these people be so sure and I am so Unsure?

I dont necessarily have a hard time with the concept religion as I do with religous people and how they use it...not all mind you, I do not want to generalize. I have immediate family that is very religous. My brother is a pastor, my best friend is very much a christian(baptist) my other best friend is a Jehovah Witness...but in my experience...I find alot of hypocrisy and contradiction.

My brother and I once had a conversation because he is extremely concerned that I have never baptised my son. He pointed out to me that in his mind....if my son does not get baptised, he will not go to Heaven. So I then asked him about the "serial killer" who had been baptised and at the end asks god for forgiveness...does he go to Heaven...and he said "of course". That was my main turn off. I dont think I want to believe in HIS god. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

Originally posted by M:

I remembered that I believe in this:





No words, no dieties, no spirits are involved .

No "words?" I wonder if is a word?

[jaith]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

a friend told me once...there is a god & you're not it

maybe that's the definition of a believer...someone who knows they're not god.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ask the unbeliever

"Anyways, how you explain proven miracles; e.g. someone who was diagnosed by several doctors with an illness but through prayer was totally healed, also certifiable by doctors?"

"I know of more than one examples as mentioned in my initial question, but even if I gave you one, it would be meaningless if you did not believe it so what would be the point?"

CEW, that is not the problem. The problem is that I would have had to accept "proven miracles" as established fact in order to answer your question. Now why would you frame your question in such a manner ? Do you really think I would have fallen for that ?

And I still don't understand why you are so unwilling to provide us with even a single example of a miraculous healing that was "certifiable by doctors" ? After all, if you want me to explain something, at least give me a something to explain !