Ethical Dilema?

[Guest]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

OK, I just listened to a clip where a pastor refused to divulge information to the courts regarding a couple that were getting divorce. The pastor cited "Pastors' Confidentially" in holding on to the information. He stated it was illegal to share information that he was privy to in a private conversation between clergy and member. Was he wrong?

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

I am having a problem with those who are dumping on this minister.

How come is it that even though it is a parishoner who

1. committed adultery
2. hid the truth from her husband and
3. assumed paason would join her in hiding the truth too

but is him end up wid the bad name and legal problems ????????

There is a saying that goes something like this: There is no end to the trouble that a woman can bring into your life.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Guest]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] There is a saying that goes something like this: There is no end to the trouble that a woman can bring into your life.

Truer words have never been spoken. [/qb]

Now that's just an ignorant statement because it could have easily been a situation where the woman was talking to her minister about her adulterous husband. How many men are willing to confess about their indiscretion? That's neither here nor there in this discussion.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

And with whom do men engage in adultery ?

[ohliz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Now that's just an ignorant statement because it could have easily been a situation where the woman was talking to her minister about her adulterous husband. How many men are willing to confess about their indiscretion? That's neither here nor there in this discussion.

You go girl. Gender doesn't matter here (and the answer to Rollin's question is with whom do women engage in adultery?)

This woman may not have been ready to confess to her husband and deal with that so she went to her pastor for advice, and he threw her right in.

That would make me (if I were a member of that congregation) NOT want to confide in my pastor. If you can't trust your pastor who can you trust?

Are pastors in Protestant churches supposed to keep confidentiality like Catholic priests are? I always thought so but maybe the relationship is different.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

"...and he threw her right in"

Boo hoo. This is the risk you take when you creep around on your husband. It's called consequences. And she is the one who "threw herself" in to it. Is who tell fi go cheat on her man !

"If you can't trust your pastor who can you trust?"

Well if you were this woman's husband I would have to say not her.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] CEW, I am confused. Why would someone who feels so strongly about keeping this information from others not just keep her mouth shut ?

And why would you recruit another into your web of deceit, i.e. "I am going to tell you something that involves my husband but you are not to tell him" ?[/qb]

A Minister is not just any person. Lots of people put great trust and confidence in their Ministers. I bet a RC priest would not be so careless!

[RichD]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

I thought everybody understood that a pastor has the same rules(and obligations) of confidentiality as a phychiatrist/Phycologist or doctor....sin or no sin he was clearly in breach of his obligation of confidentiality.

maybe she shouln't have sue but certainly he should have been professionally repramanded by the church and even removed from his position.

[ohliz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
"...and he threw her right in"

Boo hoo. This is the risk you take when you creep around on your husband. It's called consequences. And she is the one who "threw herself" in to it. Is who tell fi go cheat on her man !

As I said, I guess she just won't tell her pastor about it next time, if there is a next time. We're all sinners right? Can't we discuss whatever our sins are with our pastor without fear that the pastor will go tell others that may be involved?

I would certainly hope so. No one is perfect.

I'm going to ask my pastor if he's allowed to tell stuff or not.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

The obligation to maintain confidentiality does not extend to witholding information that may result in harm to others.

How would you feel for example, if you were this woman's husband and contracted an STD ?

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

"....others that may be involved"

Excuse me ? May be involved ?????????

[Diplomat]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Came across the following from the Presbyterian Church (USA) regarding clergy/parishioner confidentiality.

"In the exercise of pastoral care, ministers of the Word and Sacrament shall maintain a relationship of trust and confidentiality, and shall hold in confidence all information revealed to them in the course of providing such care and all information relating to the exercise of such care. When the person whose confidences are at issue gives express consent to reveal confidential information, then a minister of the Word and Sacrament may, but cannot be compelled to, reveal confidential information. A minister of the Word and Sacrament may reveal confidential information when she or he reasonably believes that there is risk of imminent bodily harm to any person."

The same applies to lay pastors in this denomination.

RATIONALE
Pastoral Care

A relationship of confidence and trust within the religious community is essential to the full and free exercise of religion and cannot be maintained if members fear that their spiritual communications may be revealed.

The church and its pastors are called to a ministry of the "care of souls," by telling the good news of salvation by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ and presenting the claims of Jesus by "healing and reconciling and binding up wounds, . . . ministering to the needs of the poor, the sick, the lonely, and the powerless . . . giving itself and its substance to the service of those who suffer" (G-3.0300c(3)).

Effectiveness of clergy in counseling ministries is increased when communications are kept confidential. Clergy are better able to build a community of trust and caring and can be more effective in counseling ministries when they can assure those who come to them for aid and solace that the communications will be maintained in strictest confidence. Declaring God's forgiveness is a matter of the highest religious significance. Seeking forgiveness from God is highly personal and should not be clouded or restricted by concerns about whether one's pastor will later testify in court as to or make public what was revealed during such communications.

Underlying these concerns is the centuries-old conviction rooted in the ministry of Jesus himself, that one of the chief functions of the Christian church and its ministry is the "cure," or care, of souls.

Biblical Basis

There are strong biblical roots for confession of sin before God and one's community. For example, reference to confession of sin as step toward redemption is found in Psalm 40:1-2. Many other Psalms refer to confession as a means of glorifying God (see, for example, Psalms 22, 30, 31, 36, 40, 51, 57, 116). There are other Old Testament references to the value and importance of confession. (See, for example, Jonah 2:2-9 and Isaiah 38:1-20.) Many of these Old Testament references to confession recognize the right of God to judge us. Old Testament scholars can point to other references to confession, and the role and significance it has in a life of faith.

In the New Testament, the importance of confessing one's sins is mentioned in several contexts. John the Baptist required those coming for baptism in the River Jordan to confess their sins. (See Matt. 3:6 and Mark 1:5.) James instructs, "Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed" (James: 5:16).

Source: Proposed Amendment A: on Clergy/Parishioner Confidentiality. This may be worth reading as it contains a lot more insightful information especially as it relates to rationale on the basis of secular law.

[RichD]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb]
How would you feel for example, if you were this woman's husband and contracted an STD ? [/qb]

I guess i would be quite upset...but i dont think i would be any more upset if i found out that the pastor knew and didnt tell me...just like i woundt blame any of her friends who knew for not telling me.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Right RichD. If you found out that you contracted an HIV infection from an adulterous spouse when you would have protected your life had you been informed of her activities, you would be "quite upset".

Bway, mi a tell yuh....

[RichD]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

so missa calf....yuh bus pan any bredrin when yuh hear sey dem a creep?