I am a christian so I don't vote

[Tuff Gong]

Christians and voting
published: Monday | June 23, 2003

THE EDITOR, Sir:

I ASKED a nice and seemingly intelligent lady if she had voted. She responded, "I am a Christian so I don't vote". I must now assume that there are some "christians" who don't need libraries in their communities, don't need their garbage collected, don't need proper roads, sidewalks and traffic signals. I must also assume that some "christians" see the rest of us who do vote as being ungodly.

Apparently there are some who have been made unworthy of the right to vote. Perhaps it is better that they don't vote, as they seemingly have abandoned their right to think.

What power possesses these "christians"?

I am, etc.,

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think. does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces

[jedi]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Well there you have it!

[evanovitch]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

just a likkle question..do u then believe that out forefathers were wrong to lose their lives to fight for the liberties which u now choose not to take part in...will u not call the police if u see a crime in progress because the chances of the perpetrator being back out on the road within a short space of time is high...while i do believe that each person has the right to make their own decision, i do wish sometimes that each person would consider the far reaching inplications of these decisions...as wi say in jamaica, one one cocoa fill basket and it is a lot of these one one cocoa which end up adding up to a whole heap, which could make or break a stalemate....

[Tuff Gong]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think.

It this true?

...does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/QB]

Does religion changes anything? There are many countries that provide their citizens with a measure of control over their lives when they elect decent honest leaders, and that is true in every country no matter what the overall picture is. Now if most of those citizens refuse to take part in the excercise of their rights as citizens what can be expected?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by evanovitch:
[qb]....as wi say in jamaica, one one cocoa fill basket and it is a lot of these one one cocoa which end up adding up to a whole heap, which could make or break a stalemate.... [/qb]

You have to excuse the two Christians that answered they are not Jamaican for one, and number two they are citizens of two of Britain and the USA respectively their countries can afford corruption, crime and Christians not voting.

In Jamaica a large percentage of the population and religious and most are Christians. In 2.6 million souls we have the highest murder rates in the world that affects Christians as well:

WORSHIPPERS STAYED AWAY

Only a handful of worshippers turned up yesterday at the Church of Christ on Mountain View Avenue, which is located near to the scene of one of the shootings on Saturday.

The white church building, near to Jacques Road, normally attracts a full house at its Sunday morning services, but yesterday, most of the congregation stayed away because of the death on Saturday of Delroy Carter, their church brother.

Mr. Carter, 52, was one of two persons killed by gunmen in shootings early Saturday morning in the community. The violence erupted following Thursday's Local Government elections.

A devoted Christian, Mr. Carter was shot dead in the room of a tenement yard next-door to the church. The worshippers, the majority of whom came from the August Town branch, were celebrating the church's 71st anniversary yesterday.

SourceNot only are we busy killing off each other but we are at the top of the Transparency International list of most corrupted countries in the world. I suppose Christians are immune to such critical happenings in our country.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by Tuff Gong:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think.

It this true?

...does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/qb]

Does religion changes anything? There are many countries that provide their citizens with a measure of control over their lives when they elect decent honest leaders, and that is true in every country no matter what the overall picture is. Now if most of those citizens refuse to take part in the excercise of their rights as citizens what can be expected? [/QB]

TG of course I haven’t relinquished my ability to think. I made a conscious decision not to vote, this was done by me being able to think and reason for myself. There may be some (note I say some) individuals within the political arena who are genuine and honest, but are they representative of my ethics and values. Or should I vote for them because they are basically honest? Even if I do vote, what happens (as has been proved with this war in Iraq) when the party I support 'democratically' does something that I am opposed too? As I have put them in power are they are then speaking for me even though I do not agree with their proposals?

How can you suggest that because someone is a citizen of the US or UK they can afford corruption and crime (I don't quite understand the Christians not voting bit)? Are you suggesting that because someone is financially more secure they can avoid being impacted by the results of corruption/crime? Not so. When, as you quoted, someone dies, you suffer no less or no more because of your financial status.

But I will ask again, how will a person’s support of politics change anything in this world? I am allowed as much control as the government permits. We have been governing ourselves for millenniums, and still the problems exist that man has been trying to eradicate. True democracy is a fallacy. Just because someone has the right to vote, does not mean that his or her views will be counted or acted upon.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by evanovitch:
[qb] just a likkle question..do u then believe that out forefathers were wrong to lose their lives to fight for the liberties which u now choose not to take part in...will u not call the police if u see a crime in progress because the chances of the perpetrator being back out on the road within a short space of time is high...while i do believe that each person has the right to make their own decision, i do wish sometimes that each person would consider the far reaching inplications of these decisions...as wi say in jamaica, one one cocoa fill basket and it is a lot of these one one cocoa which end up adding up to a whole heap, which could make or break a stalemate.... [/qb]

I have had family who have fought for 'my' liberties. i have also had family who have been instrumental in fighting for the right of the working man and woman to have a right to vote. i will not denounce what they believed in, nor more than i would expect someone to denounce what i believe in.

If i see a crime in progress, the only reason i would call the police is for the benefit of the victim. what happens to the alleged offender is not of my concern. i am not judge and jury. but i fail to see what this has to do with my position on not getting involved in politics.

[neutral]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think. does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/qb]

by that logic then, presumably if the vote was still not available to women then you wouldnt have a problem with that.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by neutral:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think. does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/qb]

by that logic then, presumably if the vote was still not available to women then you wouldnt have a problem with that. [/qb]

this is not a gender issue, but an issue that affects all mankind. but to answer your question, no i do not have a problem because i do not vote, so that would not have an impact on my life.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
There may be some (note I say some) individuals within the political arena who are genuine and honest, but are they representative of my ethics and values. Or should I vote for them because they are basically honest?

I don’t know? I would think if you want people to represent your views and your opinions then you would participate in the process. Look I have no problems with whether or not you want to vote, but your reasoning as a thinking person are spurious.... I don’t trust Christians myself they enslaved my forefathers but if a Christian candidate demonstrate that he/she will honestly carry out the duties that they represent themselves to be capable of doing then I will be voting for that person.

Even if I do vote, what happens (as has been proved with this war in Iraq) when the party I support 'democratically' does something that I am opposed too? As I have put them in power are they are then speaking for me even though I do not agree with their proposals?

Well for one you support a party, you suppport a position, if that party, or that individual fail to act responsibly what should stop you from removing that support?

How can you suggest that because someone is a citizen of the US or UK they can afford corruption and crime (I don't quite understand the Christians not voting bit)? Are you suggesting that because someone is financially more secure they can avoid being impacted by the results of corruption/crime? Not so. When, as you quoted, someone dies, you suffer no less or no more because of your financial status.

Here again you must think you cannot use one political template as a master for every country. In the context of our country Jamaica can we afford to use 39% of our electorate to select our rulers, can Christians withdraw themselves from our political process? In the USA and Britain may be they can afford it. I am sorry I never even imagined that you would overstand that I am not making reference to personal wealth. I was merely saying the vast resources in people, land, people and money that these countries possess might insulate them against lack of participation…not Jamaica!

....But I will ask again, how will a person’s support of politics change anything in this world? I am allowed as much control as the government permits. We have been governing ourselves for millenniums, and still the problems exist that man has been trying to eradicate. True democracy is a fallacy. Just because someone has the right to vote, does not mean that his or her views will be counted or acted upon.

You are wrong on all counts, except having government for centuries. Again I do not see how you can accuse yourself of thinking! Maybe it is precisely because Christians have shied away from participation in their governance that in countries that claim to follow democratic principles some Governments can usurp its mandate and overthrow the country`s democracy or independence! Again I ask, using your yard stick what has christianity done for mankind?

[neutral]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
this is not a gender issue, but an issue that affects all mankind. but to answer your question, no i do not have a problem because i do not vote, so that would not have an impact on my life. [/QB]

as you rightly pointed out,it is an issue that affects all mankind.
but presumably some people seemingly leave the process up to others,and hope for the best.
you suggested above that you do support one party,but yet you refuse to vote for that party.

for some to refuse to vote based on their religious faith sounds naive and reckless.
the whole fabric of society is firmly based on the process of democracy.
without democracy then we would be left with anarchy,our society relies on people registering a vote to indicate who should govern us,based on what they say they will do whilst in power.
even though they do not always do it,or very often go against what we the people think they should do,its still a process that ensures a degree of justice for all.

without democracy and the voting process, then religion would be a dead duck,it would simply become just another cult belief,driven underground.
right now in the uk where you live the incumbent prime minister makes decision based on his religious beliefs,and also his strong sense of morality,you see,religion and democracy are more interwoven than you care to think.
while some chose not to vote based on religious beliefs,others are using the political process and making decisions that affect us all based on their religious and moral beliefs.

you cant escape it,religion is a beach

[Fledgist]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think. does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/qb]

So, it doesn't matter whether the people who rule us are accountable to us, or are tyrants? That's absurd.

The fact that the problems humanity faces seem insuperable does not mean that they should not be confronted. As a very wise man once said it is because we have got rid of so many painful things (such as slavery) that those which remain seem so horrible to us.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

using your yard stick what has christianity done for mankind?

TG: its getting late here and i'm an early riser so i will concentrate on your one question

In your response you talked about 'Christianity' enslaving your ancestors. TG, that is not 'Christianity' but false religion. Anyone who proclaims themselves a Christian must put on a Christ like personality. This applies to every aspect of their lives, not just what suits and what dosen't. Jesus would never have endorsed slavery or anything else that harmed mankind. He came to release us from the bondage of human rulership by enlightening us to the future promise of a heavenly government that will rule with justice, wisdom and love. By following his example we are able to live a satisfying life until the end of this terrible system. The problem is Satan has blinded the minds of the human race into believing there is either no God or that God is responsible in some way for all the problems we suffer. But if we truly know God we would realise that this is not true. It is part of the lie perpetrated to draw us away from our Creator and Life-Giver. There is a wonderful message in the Scriptures that is available to all whose truly wish to hear it. Sadly the vast majority of the world do not desire the promise that Jehovah made through his prophets and finally Jesus.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] i don't vote but i have not relinquished my ability to think. does voting really change anything? no matter what party is in power, in whatever country you reside, they can never bring to an end the major concerns of the people: an end to war, hunger, sickness, violence, poverty, decaying environment and all the other problems mankind faces [/qb]

So, it doesn't matter whether the people who rule us are accountable to us, or are tyrants? That's absurd.

The fact that the problems humanity faces seem insuperable does not mean that they should not be confronted. As a very wise man once said it is because we have got rid of so many painful things (such as slavery) that those which remain seem so horrible to us. [/qb]

Fledgist, i have yet to meet a politician who truly is accountable. please if you know of one tell me their name? what is a tyrant if not someone who controls us. whether we empower them or not, politicans control us. is the only diferrence between a dictatorship and a totalitarian system, is that i have had a say in who controls me?