Bishop T.D. Jakes

[Diplomat]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by soul_doctor73:
Jedi, CEW:

You both are behind the power curve. You're rehashing old hash. I'm done with the NT. You may argue for it and its teachings as you wish. But please do not waste my time.

Waving the white flag, huh? For sure you jest. Malachi 3:10 and Psalm 35:27 were still in the OT the last time I checked.

Edited for typo.

[soul_doctor73]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

White flag? No. Far from it. Keep watching.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

"Pastors also are salaried as they do have families to support as well, and as far as I am concerned....they are like company CEOs...."

This is one of the reasons why people like me don't go to church.

"....and should be adequately compensated so they can devote themselves to the various ministries."

CEW, Bishop Jakes is a millionaire. What is your definition of "adequate" ?

By the way, did the Lord delight in Mother Teresa ? I am told she had no material possessions whatsoever.

Oh, and yet her "ministry" was far larger than the Bishop's. Somehow she was able to "devote herself to her various ministries" without amassing great personal wealth. How odd. Maybe she never read that Psalm.

[soul_doctor73]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] "Pastors also are salaried as they do have families to support as well, and as far as I am concerned....they are like company CEOs...."

This is one of the reasons why people like me don't go to church.

"....and should be adequately compensated so they can devote themselves to the various ministries."

CEW, Bishop Jakes is a millionaire. What is your definition of "adequate" ?

By the way, did the Lord delight in Mother Teresa ? I am told she had no material possessions whatsoever.

Oh, and yet her "ministry" was far larger than the Bishop's. Somehow she was able to "devote herself to her various ministries" without amassing great personal wealth. How odd. Maybe she never read that Psalm. [/qb]

CEW: Did I speak too soon?

[Diplomat]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by soul_doctor73:

CEW: Did I speak too soon?

I enjoy the dialogues with RC so him asking questions of me is not an issue at all. I expected him to followup on our previous discussion.

[Diplomat]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
"Pastors also are salaried as they do have families to support as well, and as far as I am concerned....they are like company CEOs...."

This is one of the reasons why people like me don't go to church.

You and I know some people will use anything to not give to the Church. If it is not the Pastor's salary, it is something else.

"....and should be adequately compensated so they can devote themselves to the various ministries."

CEW, Bishop Jakes is a millionaire. What is your definition of "adequate" ?

I am sure he has made quite a bit from his books and CDs, and whatever else there might be. Nothing wrong with that at all. As for his salary, whatever is "adequate" is whatever the Board he reports to considers it to be. When one considers the scope of Bishop Jakes' responsibilites given congregation size, speaking engagements, and so on, it is hard to imagine what an "adequate" salary should be. Compare that with some CEOs who are being paid millions, plus stock options. If his Board decides he is worth up to / more than $250,000 per year, I have no problem with that at all.

By the way, did the Lord delight in Mother Teresa ? I am told she had no material possessions whatsoever.

Oh, and yet her "ministry" was far larger than the Bishop's. Somehow she was able to "devote herself to her various ministries" without amassing great personal wealth. How odd. Maybe she never read that Psalm.

Yeah, but she took the vow of poverty. Had she not done so, she would/could have been worth millions.

BTW, have either you or soul_doctor taken the time to find out anything about the work being by done Bishop Jakes and the difference he is making to people's lives?

[jedi]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by soul_doctor73:
[qb] Jedi, CEW:

You both are behind the power curve. You're rehashing old hash. I'm done with the NT. You may argue for it and its teachings as you wish. But please do not waste my time. [/qb]

And you think that you have something new to offer on the subject of religion?

Seems to me you are the one wasting your time, when perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to spend some of it studying your bible in it's entirety. Maybe just maybe you could try asking God to guide you in your understanding of the word. All of us could use a little help from time to time and I say that with tongue in cheek because even the greatest theologian needs God's guidance, in handling the word of God. It is very serious business as a matter of fact, because it holds very weighty consequences to those who deliberately add their own interpretation to what is written in it.

[soul_doctor73]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

Originally posted by soul_doctor73:
[qb] Jedi, CEW:

You both are behind the power curve. You're rehashing old hash. I'm done with the NT. You may argue for it and its teachings as you wish. But please do not waste my time. [/qb]

And you think that you have something new to offer on the subject of religion?

Seems to me you are the one wasting your time, when perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to spend some of it studying your bible in it's entirety. Maybe just maybe you could try asking God to guide you in your understanding of the word. All of us could use a little help from time to time and I say that with tongue in cheek because even the greatest theologian needs God's guidance, in handling the word of God. It is very serious business as a matter of fact, because it holds very weighty consequences to those who deliberately add their own interpretation to what is written in it. [/qb]

Jedi: How is it possible for you not to understand me? How is it possible for you to continue to miss the point? It is like you are so close to falling, but are scared that the sensation will hurt.

What is more serious than God? More serious than Truth? I have studied the bible. Both inside *and* out. Pseudepigrapha, apocrypha, I have them all. The information has not escaped me because God did not allow it to.

God owns you, me, and the world. But man thinks he own's the world, you, and me. You still believe this. That is why you are still maintaining the 'need' for wealth over the need for equality.

Right now, it you are unable to effectively engage in the labor force of America, you are lost to the means of providing for yourself. If you have no one who cares enough to provide for you, you are lost to the basic needs of life. If you have reached this point, you are lost to the general public of America.

*They* have not lost the means by which to engage in the labor force and are therefore compelled to, in order to provide for their needs. In the race, those who cannot, are mostly forgotten. So who provides for them? The organizations that have been established by the wealthy to 'help'?

There would be no need for 'organizations' if man's fellow man looked out for his fellow man. But man must look out for himself, and power is structured accordingly. So those beneath the bottom are likely to stay there, whether they choose to or not.

Someone/s will have to stand in account for the millions who suffer under this power structure. God will be the Judge. The point is, Judgement soon come.

I don't want you to be caught by surpise.

[jedi]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

(((SD))) let me reread what you are saying and come back to you...

[RollinCalf]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

"Yeah, but she took the vow of poverty. Had she not done so, she would/could have been worth millions."

And was her ministry while she was here on earth any less effective becuse she chose not to enrich herself in the course of her work on behalf of the poor and ill ?

CEW, were Jesus to return to earth today, do you think he would be selling CD,s and books or charging those seeking to hear his words, "speakers fees" ?

As a matter of fact, back in the day, "it is hard to imagine what an "adequate" salary would (have) been" for Jesus....."when one considers what the scope of (Jesus') responsibilites" !

[jedi]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

(((SD))) I have thought over what you said in your last post and I don't have a lot of time to go into another lengthy discussion on this as I am very pressed for time these days. However let me leave you with a few thoughts as a final contribution to this thread.

1. Do not judge a man by his outer trappings, but rather look at the fruit that comes out from his heart. I say this because you seem to believe that the pious and holy are truly representative of Godly values. God is a judge of hearts.

2. The bible warns us in Proverbs 3:5- Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.

In your search for truth, seek out God and He will give you sound understanding. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


2.

[Diplomat]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

"Yeah, but she took the vow of poverty. Had she not done so, she would/could have been worth millions."

And was her ministry while she was here on earth any less efective becuse she chose not to enrich herself in the course of her work on behalf of the poor and ill?

Not at all, and neither was that of Billy Graham's who I understand was well compensated by his organization. In one of your earlier threads, you made reference to Jesus sending out the disciples and instructing them to not take anything with them. However in Luke 10 He sends out another 70 in groups of twos, similar instructions (he was about to teach them the same lesson he taught the earlier 12), but this time told them that: "And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire." In other words, it is OK to be compensated for what you do. Back then it was primarily food, today it is other forms of compensation. Nothing wrong with that at all.

We have to get past the idea that Pastors are supposed to be poor and destitute. There is nothing in the scriptures to suggest or support that.

CEW, were Jesus to return to earth today, do you think he would be selling CD,s and books or charging those seeking to hear his words, "speakers fees"?

How many people do you think Jesus reached walking on foot? If He were here today, given the technology, for sure He would be using televison/satellite, radio, getting his message out on CDs, or whatever medium is available. A ministry of that magnitude would require a lot of money and short of doing something miraculous every month end, He would need finances. Do not forget He did recognize that money was a necessary part of day to day living. It was He who sent Peter to go catch a fish and take the coin from its mouth in order to pay their taxes.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

"He did recognize that money was a necessary part of day to day living".

That is not the point C. The point is, where in the Bible does it indicate that Jesus, or any of the early church fathers in the NT for that matter, enriched themselves in the course of his ministry ?

[jedi]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

How many people do you think Jesus reached walking on foot? If He were here today, given the technology, for sure He would be using televison/satellite, radio, getting his message out on CDs, or whatever medium is available. Do not forget He did recognize that money was a necessary part of day to day living. It was He who sent Peter to go catch a fish and take the coin from its mouth in order to pay their taxes.



Turning back to look again...Eh-em which by the way as we are talking about technology. Isn't it amazing how accessible the gospel is today as a tool for reaching into the far corners of the earth. As a matter of fact (((guys))) God is very much using this technology to His advantage and as a matter of fact it ties in perfectly with His plans for mankind, as the days draw nearer to His return, notice how these inventions have developed in the last couple of decades, and notice where they are being directed. And ask yourselves this why now and not before? HELLO!!!
Remember before His return every person on earth must have heard it for they will not be able to say upon His return that they had not. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[RollinCalf]

Re: Bishop T.D. Jakes

Jedi, what is the biblical precedent for church leaders amassing great amounts of wealth while they spread the word ? Which of the disciples, for example, did this while planting churches in Asia, Northern Africa and Europe (without the benefit of technology I might add) after Jesus died ?