The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mulligan:
[qb] I agree with you Mutty that there are many events in the Bible that would be nothing short of supernatural to witness. And just like I wouldn't mind seeing a UFO or alien to cement my belief, I wouldn't mind seeing a miracle either [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I hope you are right and there is more to reality.

Again, I hope that you took my words as nothing more than a point of view. [/qb]

It's all good. I'm enjoying this as you can see. Thread has its diverse views but it's as civil as can be. Thanks for sharing.

[Guest]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

I'll give you full credit for a great thread. One problem though -- I'm going to be thinking about this for some time [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . You're using up my brain cells [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mulligan:
[qb] I'll give you full credit for a great thread. One problem though -- I'm going to be thinking about this for some time [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] . You're using up my brain cells [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

I've lost just about all of mine. lol!

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] You know Mutty, I am a simple man. And I am still, for example, not sure why I should not believe that Zeus threw lightning rods down the side of a mountain but accept as credible, a race of aliens created humanity to be their slaves by impregnating apes with their DNA.

By the way, why would a race of aliens who are "advanced" and possess what we would consider "superhuman powers" need to create something as primitive and barbaric as slaves ? [/qb]

This raises the obvious question. Why would an omnipotent (Christian) "God" create man for any reason?

I dare anyone to answer by saying "to serve and worship..." Would that then not begin to tread on the path of what is trying to be presented here? Man was created to serve. Go back to your Bibles. From the Christian point of view in the Bible, "God" created man to be a servant. From the day man was created he was given orders.

Why would a being, that is capable of "speaking" things into existence, need to create something far less than "itself", to do minor things? Come on people open your minds and allow this question to marinate for a minute

Why would a being, that already knows what will happen, bore "itself", by watching what it already knew? Better yet, why would this being chastise it's creations, when it's the one that put spirit in the creation? Not only that, the being admits to creating purposely bad creations just to chastise/punish them. Come on my Christian folks, I'm not picking on you, but deep deep deep down, you have to admit, that something just isn't completely right with the "story" you've been told for so long.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

rov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now here's a good one!
Acts 7:49-50 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these thing

Why are we (Earth) the footstool? I do not consider a footstool a good thing to be? But the good Christian do not mind praising a god that sees them as such...

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Lamentations 2:1
How hath the LORD covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!

Matthew 22:44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool

Luke 20:43
Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 2:35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

James 2:3
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

Now let me get this straight. There are many people on here, ready to bash someone like Mutty for simply having the courage to have an open mind to an alternate belief/theory. However, by many of the Christian belief, many are encouraged to believe in an "all powerful, all knowing" being, that creates low level beings to do simple task that this all mighty being could do own its own, just by speaking. Moreover, the most important task for the low level beings to do, is to worship, pay money to and labor for this great being. Again, this great being will punish the low level beings for things "he" already knows that they will do, because "he" actually created the good ones and the bad ones, including the baddest one named Satan (scroll back up if need be). So, this is the story/belief you want us to buy. Ummm, OK and I'll like the Brooklyn Bridge and Time-Share in Alaska with that please.

I know I went on a little tangent, however, it is all relative when you get down to it. My apologies Mutty, the baton is back in your hand.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Kimoni-Kojo:
[qb]

Originally posted by servant:
[qb] You know Mutty, I am a simple man. And I am still, for example, not sure why I should not believe that Zeus threw lightning rods down the side of a mountain but accept as credible, a race of aliens created humanity to be their slaves by impregnating apes with their DNA.

By the way, why would a race of aliens who are "advanced" and possess what we would consider "superhuman powers" need to create something as primitive and barbaric as slaves ? [/qb]

This raises the obvious question. Why would an omnipotent (Christian) "God" create man for any reason?

I dare anyone to answer by saying "to serve and worship..." Would that then not begin to tread on the path of what is trying to be presented here? Man was created to serve. Go back to your Bibles. From the Christian point of view in the Bible, "God" created man to be a servant. From the day man was created he was given orders.

Why would a being, that is capable of "speaking" things into existence, need to create something far less than "itself", to do minor things? Come on people open your minds and allow this question to marinate for a minute

Why would a being, that already knows what will happen, bore "itself", by watching what it already knew? Better yet, why would this being chastise it's creations, when it's the one that put spirit in the creation? Not only that, the being admits to creating purposely bad creations just to chastise/punish them. Come on my Christian folks, I'm not picking on you, but deep deep deep down, you have to admit, that something just isn't completely right with the "story" you've been told for so long.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

rov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now here's a good one!
Acts 7:49-50 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these thing

Why are we (Earth) the footstool? I do not consider a footstool a good thing to be? But the good Christian do not mind praising a god that sees them as such...

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Lamentations 2:1
How hath the LORD covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!

Matthew 22:44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool

Luke 20:43
Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 2:35
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

James 2:3
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

Now let me get this straight. There are many people on here, ready to bash someone like Mutty for simply having the courage to have an open mind to an alternate belief/theory. However, by many of the Christian belief, many are encouraged to believe in an "all powerful, all knowing" being, that creates low level beings to do simple task that this all mighty being could do own its own, just by speaking. Moreover, the most important task for the low level beings to do, is to worship, pay money to and labor for this great being. Again, this great being will punish the low level beings for things "he" already knows that they will do, because "he" actually created the good ones and the bad ones, including the baddest one named Satan (scroll back up if need be). So, this is the story/belief you want us to buy. Ummm, OK and I'll like the Brooklyn Bridge and Time-Share in Alaska with that please.

I know I went on a little tangent, however, it is all relative when you get down to it. My apologies Mutty, the baton is back in your hand. [/qb]

Thank you Kimoni but I did not feel bashed in any way. lol!!!

I know many of these folks far longer than you have. Servant is correct in saying he is a simple man and has been here to ask the practical questions which he has all right to. Accepted is as cool as they come. Mulligan shared his views and CEW presented his.

This stuff is not easy to digest. For years I thought it was sheer nonsense and to be honest, there are still parts of it I find incredulous. What looking into it has done is fill in some blanks for me. You know what the whole experience remnds me of? Listening to a much older person talk and think they are talking sheer nonsense just because I feel I know and they don't until one day you actually pay attention and realize they have a lot to tell and they make sense except that they speak to you in proverbs.

I can remember one night in Jamaica I was sitting outside with an older lady. A "falling/shooting star" lit up the sky and she said, "de falling angel dem a fall tinite, eeh?" I almost fell over. Here was a woman making a statement in the middle of Jamaica that reflected something in the Bible and I came to find out she was not the only one who called a shooting star a fallen angel. How did this expression make its way into Jamaican thought? Why connect a falling star to angels? Was it simply an echo of a very ancient event that is still hanging around to this day even in Jamaica off the beaten path of ancient civilizations? It reminded me of the fact that Jesus said he saw satan fall from heaven like a star and that some ancient people say that these angels/gods/aliens "fell" from the heavens.

I would venture to say that the Sumerians are likened to older people who at times sound like senile, babbling, backwards old farts to the modern academinc circles and church establishments. They were idol worshipping pagans and that is all that needs to be known so the ears are shut and they are put on ignore. After all, what can these heathens have to tell us? Then you start to become older and start to wake up to the "truths" of what they were talking about based on your own experiences just like when you begin to realize you are becoming your mother of father who at one time you thought were insane and ignorant. YOu wake up one day and realize that the kid across the street you followed into so much trouble was NOT the fountain of knowledge as you once thought. Your parents were right all along.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
I know many of these folks far longer than you have. Servant is correct in saying he is a simple man and has been here to ask the practical questions which he has all right to. Accepted is as cool as they come. Mulligan shared his views and CEW presented his.


Hey Mutty, I was not directly making my statements to any of the afore mentioned. I am very familiar with the humbleness of CEW, I hold high regard for CEW for having an open mind and willingess to listen to reason. I have no ill intent (verbally) towards anyone, I actually used Servants post as a segue to thwart against those that consider what we have been presenting as nonesense. Again, my intent was/is not to point the finger at any individual. I am all for open minded, educational debate.

[Diplomat]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Quite an interesting thread, and a lot of information on both sides. I am however reminded of T.S. Elliot's:

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.

As expected, we are still entrenched in our positions - afterall we have all brought our various biases to the table - but this has been a great discussion.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

For those who would prefer to look at this from the perch of Christianity, I would recommend this rather interesting and informative paper by J. Timothy Unruh. No need to fear reading it because he remains very orthodox, however, you will see he does not run from the possibility that we may have been visited before. He paints the occasion in the light of angelic (stays away from calling them aliens) and demonic deception, however. This should be in keeping with how many Christians would view the matter anyway.

http://www.ldolphin.org/unruh/alien/aliens.html

Keep in mind that he deals with this issue form a Christian perspective so the all truths and errors are judged thereby.


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, but rather spiritual beings having a human experience."

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

I agree,this has been a very interesting thread. However, it does seem to me, that if Kimoni and Mutty's ideas ARE what happened, then there are no gods, or supernatural beings? These beings were not everywhere at once, or speaking worlds into existence. They were motivated to create man by greed, perhaps necessity. They came, and went, leaving mankind to our own devices.

Am I reading your ideas correctly?

_

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] I agree,this has been a very interesting thread. However, it does seem to me, that if Kimoni and Mutty's ideas ARE what happened, then there are no gods, or supernatural beings? These beings were not everywhere at once, or speaking worlds into existence. They were motivated to create man by greed, perhaps necessity. They came, and went, leaving mankind to our own devices.

Am I reading your ideas correctly?

_ [/qb]

As for me 40, I still believe there is a Great Creator behind it all.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] I agree,this has been a very interesting thread. However, it does seem to me, that if Kimoni and Mutty's ideas ARE what happened, then there are no gods, or supernatural beings? These beings were not everywhere at once, or speaking worlds into existence. They were motivated to create man by greed, perhaps necessity. They came, and went, leaving mankind to our own devices.

Am I reading your ideas correctly?

_ [/qb]

Being of syncretic thought, I do believe there is one supreme source of life, I just refuse to believe that the beginning of life and religion for that matter, is as majestic as presented in the popularized KJV Bible.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Can you all imagine humans from Earth eventually trying to create life, or even human life on distant planets... well into the future? It seems so reasonable to me.

_

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] Can you all imagine humans from Earth eventually trying to create life, or even human life on distant planets... well into the future? It seems so reasonable to me.

_ [/qb]

This is why I mentioned earlier about cloning. If I or Kimoni had presented this information 150 years ago or even just 50 about "gods" creating life by mixing their essence with that of existing homonids to bring forth a more supreme race, we would be laughed out of Dodge. Even while some may scoff at it now, we are all well aware of the very real potential to clone human beings using the very same method in this day and age. It is the very Bible that exclaims that there is NOTHIHNG new under the sun.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:

Can you all imagine humans from Earth eventually trying to create life, or even human life on distant planets... well into the future? It seems so reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:

This is why I mentioned earlier about cloning. If I or Kimoni had presented this information 150 years ago or even just 50 about "gods" creating life by mixing their essence with that of existing homonids to bring forth a more supreme race, we would be laughed out of Dodge. Even while some may scoff at it now, we are all well aware of the very real potential to clone human beings using the very same method in this day and age.

I follow you right up to this point...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:

It is the very Bible that exclaims that there is NOTHIHNG new under the sun.

What's the point... I mean,

If in 1970, you had said that in the year 2003, more people would be communicating useing a language called DOS than any other language on the planet... you "would be laughed out of Dodge,"... same way.

What these "aliens" brought to our planet (if they are "real"), is not only their DNA, but language. They were speaking a language that was way advanced than what was going on here. If they changed us, created us using their DNA, they also spoke to us. We knew, and spoke their language. The remants of their language, just like thier DNA, should be still resonating to this day in our words.

_

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:

Can you all imagine humans from Earth eventually trying to create life, or even human life on distant planets... well into the future? It seems so reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:

This is why I mentioned earlier about cloning. If I or Kimoni had presented this information 150 years ago or even just 50 about "gods" creating life by mixing their essence with that of existing homonids to bring forth a more supreme race, we would be laughed out of Dodge. Even while some may scoff at it now, we are all well aware of the very real potential to clone human beings using the very same method in this day and age.

I follow you right up to this point...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:

It is the very Bible that exclaims that there is NOTHIHNG new under the sun.

What's the point... I mean,

If in 1970, you had said that in the year 2003, more people would be communicating useing a language called DOS than any other language on the planet... you "would be laughed out of Dodge,"... same way.

What these "aliens" brought to our planet (if they are "real"), is not only their DNA, but language. They were speaking a language that was way advanced than what was going on here. If they changed us, created us using their DNA, they also spoke to us. We knew, and spoke their language. The remants of their language, just like thier DNA, should be still resonating to this day in our words.

_ [/qb]

Greetings Forty,

Who is to say that one, if not all the languages that is spoken on Earth is not diluted variations of our creators language. If one would study further back, man learned the ability to speak, man was not created with the gift of language. Also, languages around the world continue to evolve as time passes. For example, who would have ever thought that the "ever" so popular hip-hop term "bling bling" would actually make it into the dictionary. This phrase did not exist 5 years ago. Again, who is to say that what we speak or even type right now is not of the original creators. Just as the scriptures have been edited, so could the very books we have learned language from could have been edited over centuries pas, whereas its ultimate origin(s) have been lost.