The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Sons of God (The Nephilim)

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

These Sons of God could not have been angels, because if one knows much about how "God" created angels, they were supposedly (according to Christian teachings), created sexless and unable to reproduce as man could, thus these Sons of God could not have been angels if they mated with the daughters of man. Also note, the distinction between Sons of God and Daughters of man. There was hybrid creating going on here.

Another important resource to the mystery of the "us" that has been kept a secret for so long is The Book of Enoch.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Kimoni-Kojo:
[qb] Mutty,

I understand how what I presented can be difficult to digest in one sitting, I will not profess that all I have presented as absolute, it is just a presentation of what have researched and compiled over time and find comfort in having an alternate reality of history to believe in, versus the one sided story that has been presented to mankind up until this point. I definitely appreciate the additional information you presented. It validates the history of the Sumerians and their exposing of the Elohim. Who knows, maybe in time, with our combined diligence and willingness to keep an open mind, we can remove the mask of ignorance from the eyes of the masses.

To piggy back on your post. The Dead Sea Scrolls mention the Sons of God. The Sons of God (The Nephilim) are mentioned in Genesis 6:1, I wonder how many people are aware of who they really are and what they are responsible for in regards to human existence. I know some die hard Christian will simply say that they were angels, however, the truth of who they are/were is in the very doctrine many Christians abide by and have no idea of the mutation that took place centuries ago. [/qb]

I hear ya!

Well to elaborate on my own topic, the Sumerian writings does indeed present a clear explanation to what has puzzled Christians for ages simply because they refuse to even given anything else outside the Bible any credence. While Christian scholars have had to perform verbal gymnastics to come up with some unsatisfying explanation as to who the "us" are of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7, the Sumerians simply state that a divine council of gods (El-ohim or Anunnaki)came together and decided to create Adamu (Adam/man). This simply explains who "us" is. Contrary to what many Christians and Jews fear, this does NOT negate the fact that there is one true God. It only highlights the fact that this God is surrounded by other lesser divine beings with whom he councils. This is not some unbiblical concept either because in the very Bible we read of such decision making councils as in the case of the 'lying spirit' who requests of God to go deceive Ahab as well as Psalm 82 where Yahweh gets up in the council of the gods and unleashes judgement on the other gods in the council of their slackness of duty.

The Sumerian Anunnaki saw a need to create a worker and they gathered together to agree on what needed to be done and the decision was made to use their very essence (their image or what would be called DNA today) to create this worker. When the decison was reached, they announced that they (us) would create man in their own likeness. This helps to eliminate that age old question as to why God saw the need to create us and nullifies that little cute story that he did it because he was looking for someone to love.

Imagine all the confusing theological mysteries this one could solve. But why go this route when you can use the "mysteries" to confuse the hell out of people and keep them in the dark? Lost people equals money and nice offered backs to step on.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Oh by the way, if I had told anyone in here in 1900 that it is possible to create another human being, what would you guys have said to me or thought of me? Fast forward to today. If I say it is possible now, what would you say? Cloning is old history now. The ancients KNEW of cloning and about DNA manipulation, something we just 'discovered' 50 years ago so much so we have reached where they already were - cloning.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Num 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.


Anakim
The Anakim were a race of giants.  They were descendants of Arba (Joshua 15:13; 21:11) who dwelled in the southern part of Canaan, and particularly at Hebron, which from their progenitor received the name of "city of Arba."

(An entire race of mysterious giants, yeah that's normal)

Need I go on with the fact that the true history of human creation has been kept a secret?

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Mutty, we are difinitely on the same page

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

I think it's time to turn the basic Christian theory of man's existence on it's head with this bit of information here:

Sumerian texts repeatedly state that the Anunnaki came to Earth. The Anunnaki were four great Gods who created man. The term 'Anunnaki' literally means 'from or of the sky.' The Annunaki are regarded by some as the Sumerian ‘fates’.

They are spoken of in the Bible as the 'Anakim' and 'Anak' or 'Nefilim' (nephilum). 'Nefilim' (nephilum) in Hebrew means 'giants' or 'those who have fallen'. For reference I offer: The King James Bible; Young's Literal translation; HSV (Hebrew Names version); ASV (American Standard version) and RSV (Revised Standard version). Numbers 13:22, 28 & 33; Deu 1:28, 9:2; Also, go back up to my last post in regards to who the father (the specific name) of the Anakim were. The best part is, this right in the Christian Bible. I beg a Christian to prove otherwise.

[kthydvs]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Nephilim: Fellers; those who cause others to fall down. This is a transliteration of the Hebrew word nephi-lim' , plural in its three occurances in the Bible (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33 (twice). It evidently stems from the causative form of the Hebrew verb na-phal' (fall) as found, for example, in 2 Kings 3:19; 19:7.

The Bible account describing Jehovah's displeasure with men in the days of Noah before the Flood relates that "the sons of the true God" took for themselves wives from among the attractive daughters of men. It then mentions the presence of "Nephilim" saying: "The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones [Heb., hag-gib-bo-rim' ] who were of old, the men of fame" Ge 6:1-4.

Identity. Bible commentators, considering verse 4, have offered several suggestions as to the identiy of these Nephilim. Some have thought that the derivation of the name indicates that the Nephilim had fallen from heaven, that is, that they were 'fallen angles' who mated with women to produce "mighty ones...the men of fame." Other scholars, focusing their attention particularly on the statement "and also after that" (vs 4), have said the Nephilim were not the 'fallen angels' or the "mighty ones," since the Nephilim "proved to be in the earth in those days" before the sons of God had relations with women. These latter scholars hold the opinion that the Nephilim were simply wicked men like Cain - robbers, bullies, and tyrants who roamed the earth until they were destroyed by the Flood. Still another group, taking into consideration the context of verse 4, conclude that the Nephilim were not themselves angels, but were the hybrid offspring resulting from materialized angels having intercourse with the daughters of emn.

Who were the 'sons of God' that fathered the Nephilim?
The Bible implies that their marriage to the daughters of men resulted in a whipping up the badness in the earth. If these "sons of the true God" were merely men, the question arrises, Why were their offspring "men of Fame" more than those of the wicked? Also, the questions might be asked, why mention their marriage to the daughters of men as something special? Marriage and childbearing had been taking place for more than 1500yrs.

These sons of God mentioned at Genesis 6:2, are also referred to at Job 1:6; 38:7, where the term is applied to angels. This view is supported by Peter, who speaks of "the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah's day" (1Pe 3:19, 20). Also Jude writes of "the angels that did not keep their original dwelling place." (Jude 6). Angels had the power to materialize in human form, and some angels did so to bring messages from God (Ge 18:1, 2, 8, 20-22; 19: 1-11; Jos 5:13-15). But heaven is the proper abode of spirit persons, and the angels have positions of service under Jehovah. (Da 7:9, 10) To leave this abode to dwell on earth and to forsake their assigned service to have fleshly relations would be a rebellion against God's laws, and perversion.

The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now "spirits in prison," having been 'thrown into Tartarus' and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable to materialize as they did prior to the flood. (1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6)

"The mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame" that were produced by these marriages, were not men of fame with God, for they did not survive the flood. They were "Nephilim", bullies, tyrants, who no doubt helped to make conditions worse. Their angelic fathers, knowing the construction of the human body and being able to materialize, were not creating life, but lived in these human bodies and, cohabiting with women, brought forth children. Their children "mighty ones," were therefore unauthorized hybrids. The Nephilim did not, in turn, have children.

In Mythology . The fame and dread of the Nephilim, it appears, gace rise to many mythologies of pagan people, who after the confusion of languages at Babel, were scattered throughout the earth. Though the historical forms of the Genesis account was greatly distorted and embellished, there was a remarkable resemblance in these ancient mythologies (those of the Greeks being only one example), in which gods and goddesses mated with humans to produce superhuman heroes and fearful demigods having god-man characteristics.

[kthydvs]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Personally I do not buy the "God was speaking to the other members of the Trinity" explanation. Any other ideas? [/qb]

Throughout the Sciptures Jehovah God is identified as the Creator. He is the "Creator of the heavens,...the Former of the earth and the Maker of it." (Isa 45:18). He is the Former of the mountains and the Creator of the wind" (Am 4:13) and is "the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them." (Ac 4:24; 14:15; 17:24) "God...created all things" (Eph 3:9) Jesus Christ recognised Jehovah as the One who created humans, making them male and female (Mt 19:4; Mr 10:6) Hence, Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called "the Creator." (Isa 40:28)

It is because of God's will that all things "existed and were created." (Re 4:11). Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning (Ps 90:1, 2: 1Ti 1:17).

While Jehovah, who is a Spirit (Joh 4:24; 2Co 3:17) has always existed, that is not true of the matter of which the universe is made. Hence, when creating the literal heavens and earth, Jehovah did not use preexistent material. This is clear from Genesis 1:1, which says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." If matter had always existed, it would have been inappropriate to use the term "Beginning" with reference to material things. However, after creating the earth, God did form "from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens." (Ge 2:19). He also formed man "out of the dust from the ground," blowing into his nostrils the breathe of life so that man came to be a living soul. (Ge 2:7).

Appropriately Psalm 33:6 says "By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit of his mouth all their army." While the earth was yet "formless and waste," with "darkness upon the surface of the watery deep," it was God's active force that was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters (Ge 1:2). Thus God used his active force, or "spirit" (Heb., ru'ach ), to accomplish his creative purpose.

Jehovah's first creation was his "only-begotten Son" (John 3:16), "the beginning of the creation by God." (Re 3:14) This one, "the firstborn of all creation," was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, "the things visible and the things invisible." (Col 1:15-17) John's inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that "all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence," and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh (Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way," and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah's "master worker." (Pr 8:12, 22-31) In view of the close assoication of Jehovah and his only-begotten Son in creative acitivity and because that Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15; 2Co 4:4), it was evidently to His only-begotten Son and Master Worker that Jehovah spoke in saying, "Let us make man in our image." (Ge 1:26)

After creating his only-begotten Son, Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly angels into existence. This preceded the founding of the earth, as Jehovah revealed when questioning Job and asking him "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth...when the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?" (Job 38:4-7). It was after the creation of these heavenly spirit creatures that the material heavens and earth and all the elements were made, or brought into existence. And, since Jehovah is the one primarily responsible for all this creative work, it is ascribed to Him. (Ne 9:6; Ps 136:1, 5-9).

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Kumba wrote:

Who were the 'sons of God' that fathered the Nephilim?
The Bible implies that their marriage to the daughters of men resulted in a whipping up the badness in the earth. If these "sons of the true God" were merely men, the question arrises, Why were their offspring "men of Fame" more than those of the wicked? Also, the questions might be asked, why mention their marriage to the daughters of men as something special? Marriage and childbearing had been taking place for more than 1500yrs.

These sons of God mentioned at Genesis 6:2, are also referred to at Job 1:6; 38:7, where the term is applied to angels. This view is supported by Peter, who speaks of "the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah's day" (1Pe 3:19, 20). Also Jude writes of "the angels that did not keep their original dwelling place." (Jude 6). Angels had the power to materialize in human form, and some angels did so to bring messages from God (Ge 18:1, 2, 8, 20-22; 19: 1-11; Jos 5:13-15). But heaven is the proper abode of spirit persons, and the angels have positions of service under Jehovah. (Da 7:9, 10) To leave this abode to dwell on earth and to forsake their assigned service to have fleshly relations would be a rebellion against God's laws, and perversion.

The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now "spirits in prison," having been 'thrown into Tartarus' and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable to materialize as they did prior to the flood. (1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6)

"The mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame" that were produced by these marriages, were not men of fame with God, for they did not survive the flood. They were "Nephilim", bullies, tyrants, who no doubt helped to make conditions worse. Their angelic fathers, knowing the construction of the human body and being able to materialize, were not creating life, but lived in these human bodies and, cohabiting with women, brought forth children. Their children "mighty ones," were therefore unauthorized hybrids. The Nephilim did not, in turn, have children.


I am not quite sure if I following your position on this because the above sounds contradictory, however, I must say the last few sentences is a new interpretation I never heard of but it does have some sense to it. A very interesting spin on it I must say.

Anyway, the initial paragraph sounds like the commentator of this piece is stating that the "sons of God" were no more than allegedly rightoeus men gone bad while furhter down it appears the writer then admits angels had sometrhing to do with the whole fiasco. The 'sons' being a line of godly men allegedly from the line of Seth, Adam's third son, is a VERY flawed theory on just about every front.

[kthydvs]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

the piece is looking at the identification of two groups:- "Nephilim" and "sons of the true God".

There are various suggestions from Biblical scholars as to the identity of the "sons of the true God". Some regard them as wicked men. But as the earth was filled with wickedness, how do we make the distinction between these "sons of the true God" and the rest of mankind? the scriptures quoted support the identity of these sons of the true God to be angels. Job 1:6 reads "Now it came to be the day when the sons of the (true) God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them. AS Jehovah resides in the spiritual heavens, it must surely mean that these sons of the (true) God were also in the spiritual heavens. Peter referred to the "angels who sinned" (2Pe 2:4) and how God punished this ancient world with a Flood (2Pe 2:5). These angels became demons and were part of satan's seed as stated at Genesis 3:15.

The results of these angels taking on human form and having sexual relations with human females was the birth of the "Nephilim". These were superhuman hybrid creatures, who were bullies and tyrants. When the flood came, the angels (demons) dematerialized and were cast into a spiritual prison to await judgement, while the hybrid Nephilim died in the Flood.

[kthydvs]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

p.s. excellent discussion. this is really delving deep into spiritual and scriptural history.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Now with some of these things in mind, one can give a pretty good speculation about some oddities from the ancient world. Without such supernatural or otherworldly inclusions, things like the Pyramids, Angkhor Wat in Cambodia, Easter Island, the mention of dragons and other weird creatures of legends and myths might begin to make some sense. The way I look at it is that we are the latest and greatest (so far) of a new world that arose in the wake of some great cataclysm (often mentioned as a great Flood). The world before that catastrophe may have been somewhat like ours in the sense that there were great achievements even up to the point of space travel. This appears, from many ancient writings, to have been through the direct influence of "gods" who came down from the stars/heavens and brought with them civilization and "secrets" that we are still very much cloudy about. Their world may have reached a zenith of achievement in much the same way ours has today.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Now with some of these things in mind, one can give a pretty good speculation about some oddities from the ancient world. Without such supernatural or otherworldly inclusions, things like the Pyramids, Angkhor Wat in Cambodia, Easter Island, the mention of dragons and other weird creatures of legends and myths might begin to make some sense. The way I look at it is that we are the latest and greatest (so far) of a new world that arose in the wake of some great cataclysm (often mentioned as a great Flood). The world before that catastrophe may have been somewhat like ours in the sense that there were great achievements even up to the point of space travel. This appears, from many ancient writings, to have been through the direct influence of "gods" who came down from the stars/heavens and brought with them civilization and "secrets" that we are still very much cloudy about. Their world may have reached a zenith of achievement in much the same way ours has today. [/qb]

Well stated Mutty. From the beginning of time, life has been nothing more than a circle, with a few additionns and remodeling of the old from centuries past.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Kimoni-Kojo:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Now with some of these things in mind, one can give a pretty good speculation about some oddities from the ancient world. Without such supernatural or otherworldly inclusions, things like the Pyramids, Angkhor Wat in Cambodia, Easter Island, the mention of dragons and other weird creatures of legends and myths might begin to make some sense. The way I look at it is that we are the latest and greatest (so far) of a new world that arose in the wake of some great cataclysm (often mentioned as a great Flood). The world before that catastrophe may have been somewhat like ours in the sense that there were great achievements even up to the point of space travel. This appears, from many ancient writings, to have been through the direct influence of "gods" who came down from the stars/heavens and brought with them civilization and "secrets" that we are still very much cloudy about. Their world may have reached a zenith of achievement in much the same way ours has today. [/qb]

Well stated Mutty. From the beginning of time, life has been nothing more than a circle, with a few additionns and remodeling of the old from centuries past. [/qb]

Even with me saying all of that, can you imagine all the history that would have to be rewritten and how many established notions and concepts would have to be rethought? Religion would have to be seen in a whole new light and hierchies would be knocked down a peg or two.

What really amazes me though is, the modern audacity and pride in regards to completely dispelling the writings of the ancients. Granted, quite a bit of it involves embellisments but they were not all wrong or crazy pagans. How does one explain that from one corner of the globe to the next there are certain common stories that persists to this very day. One of them is that gods came down (or fell) from the heavens/stars and mingled with ancient man. In some accounts they are said to have come down in "celestial boats" or strange looking and sounding vehicles.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]

Originally posted by Kimoni-Kojo:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Now with some of these things in mind, one can give a pretty good speculation about some oddities from the ancient world. Without such supernatural or otherworldly inclusions, things like the Pyramids, Angkhor Wat in Cambodia, Easter Island, the mention of dragons and other weird creatures of legends and myths might begin to make some sense. The way I look at it is that we are the latest and greatest (so far) of a new world that arose in the wake of some great cataclysm (often mentioned as a great Flood). The world before that catastrophe may have been somewhat like ours in the sense that there were great achievements even up to the point of space travel. This appears, from many ancient writings, to have been through the direct influence of "gods" who came down from the stars/heavens and brought with them civilization and "secrets" that we are still very much cloudy about. Their world may have reached a zenith of achievement in much the same way ours has today. [/qb]

Well stated Mutty. From the beginning of time, life has been nothing more than a circle, with a few additionns and remodeling of the old from centuries past. [/qb]

Even with me saying all of that, can you imagine all the history that would have to be rewritten and how many established notions and concepts would have to be rethought? Religion would have to be seen in a whole new light and hierchies would be knocked down a peg or two.

What really amazes me though is, the modern audacity and pride in regards to completely dispelling the writings of the ancients. Granted, quite a bit of it involves embellisments but they were not all wrong or crazy pagans. How does one explain that from one corner of the globe to the next there are certain common stories that persists to this very day. One of them is that gods came down (or fell) from the heavens/stars and mingled with ancient man. In some accounts they are said to have come down in "celestial boats" or strange looking and sounding vehicles. [/qb]

The train of thought of the masses is, that they find comfort in allowing other establishments and orders do the thinking for them. They refuse to go beyond what they have been told and allow their minds to be limited by the thoughts of others. I cannot count the number of times I have heard the so-called "righteous" ones make the statement of, "if it's not in the Bible, then it's not true..." I find that way of thinking to be one of the foundations of brainwashing for those that are not of stronger will to research for themselves, the secrets of all things that have been diliberately kept from mankind throughout the ages. It is a well known fact (if one chose to study history in detail) that Emperor Constantine, during the 4th century, had a council of high priest edit the Bible (that later evolved into the famous KJV). His intent was to withhold information or scriptures in the Bible that he deemed too much to bear from a literary point, for the average laymen. People I ask and challenge you to research this for yourslef and you will find that many men of power throughout history have mutilated the scriptures and that so much from ancient history has been omitted to keep generation after genration in the dark about the truth...

Come test!