The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Accepted you said this:

"Every lie since have been a twist of a fragment of truth. The anakut is just an ancient twist. An ancient one but still a twist..."


The question now becomes, which came first - the truth or lie? Remember that the Sumerians came with their story first and the Hebrews via Abraham of Ur (an anccient Sumerians city) came ages later with their version of the accounts. It was not the other way around.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Before I am misunderstood, I am not implying the Hebrews produced a lie, but one has to ask who borrowed from who and if it is determined the Hebrews did the borrowing, why are the details so fragmented and vague at times? Could it be that they had an agenda which had to be kept in line (via editing) with the monotheistic concept that there is only one true and real God and all others are false as opposed to a henotheistic concept where one God exists for a particular people but not denying others exist? There is also the side of henotheism that sees one supreme God surrounded by other lesser gods (resigned to angels in Jewish theology) part of his court.

[Diplomat]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Before I am misunderstood, I am not implying the Hebrews produced a lie, but one has to ask who borrowed from who and if it is determined the Hebrews did the borrowing, why are the details so fragmented and vague at times? Could it be that they had an agenda which had to be kept in line (via editing) with the monotheistic concept that there is only one true and real God and all others are false as opposed to a henotheistic concept where one God exists for a particular people but not denying others exist? There is also the side of henotheism that sees one supreme God surrounded by other lesser gods (resigned to angels in Jewish theology) part of his court. [/qb]

Interesting question. I stand to be corrected on this, but while the Sumerians practised polytheism, isn't Moses credited with pointing the Jewish people towards monotheism following their deliverance from Egyptian bondage? Assuming that is the case, it would make sense to me that Moses' account of things would differ greatly from that of the Sumerians, in that he would not have lend any credibility to the existence or influence of other gods in the creation process and events beyond.

[Diplomat]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Nice to see you around, Accepted. [/qb]

Ditto . Very good points in your post as well.

[servant]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Hi Kimoni-Kojo. I have a few questions. Well "20 questions" really to start with:

1. You said “The UFO phenomenon has been covered from every angle except an objective one”.

How do you “objectively” cover the UFO phenomenon when they apparently refuse to touch down in populated areas, during the day, and communicate openly with us?

2. You said “Aliens are presumed to be real by all accounts..”

By which accounts ? Can you refer us to reputable scientific sources with a track record of excellence in their field who, by virtue of the evidence they have examined, “presume” UFO’s to be real ?

3. Have you come across any extra-theological sources (this term, by the way, also excludes the Book of Enoch) that would support the theory that the Nephilim came from another world/planet ?

4. You said, ” The Gods of Mythology, the Nephilim of the bible, the Ntr of the Egyptians, the Annunaki of the Sumerians were the Watchers destroyed by the flood. Physical beings of flesh and blood that came to this planet and introduced to the ancient humans of prehistory the intelligence and knowledge that boggles the minds of modern day archeologists. These are the sources of our alien visits, abductions, historical oddities, and confusing aspects of the physical world.”

What evidence do you have that alien abductions have occurred ? What “historical oddities, and confusing aspects of the physical world” are you referring to and how are the Nephilim, Ntr, Annukai and Watchers responsible for them?

5. You said “the Elohim of Israel, Isis, the Holy One, the Mother Goddess, Gaia, Mother Nature, Ishtar, Astarte, Innana, or any other number of her ancient ‘pagan’ names by which she was called, is the same Elohim of Genesis.”

Could you please tell us how you arrived at this conclusion ?

6. ” The ‘Nephilim’ disrupted the ‘Eden’ of prehistory with their arrival upon the earth; bringing knowledge ancient man was not spiritually equipped for.”

Such as ?

7. You said ” The religions of the world are the tools of the immortal Elohim to guide the growth and advancement of their mortal ‘offspring’.”

Why then would the tenets of the religions of the world be asymmetrical if they had the same source ?

8. You said ” Religion existed before knowledge to bridle the passionate nature of humanity”

If that was the reason, how do explain the fact that religion has in fact done quite the opposite ?

9. ” The belief in The Creator, One God, exists among the Elohim as it does among mortal humans.”

How do you know what the religious beliefs of the Elohim are ?

10. You said ” We are destined to be the sons and daughters of God; Elohim.”

What does this mean ?

11. You said ” The Adamu (Adam or man) were originally created to work in various projects around the world. These included mining, food production, construction, etc.”

Where did you get that information from ?

12. You said ” The Annunaki began to clamor for more of the workers. Human females were further altered so that conception was possible not just once per year, but every 28 days. This can be found in Genesis 3, Verse 16.”

Actually Genesis 3, Verse 16 says ”To the woman He said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband; and he shall rule over you”

How did you get your information from that Bible verse ?

13. You said ” It began to be a status symbol among the Annunaki to have as many Adamu as possible. Different models were produced to perform different tasks. Finally, a model was produced as a suitable house servant. This was a great success, and further refinements were made to them. One was that they were made to look like smaller versions of the Annunaki, themselves. They were very fine-featured, but smaller in size compared to the larger workers.”

Again, what is the source for this information ?

14. You said ” They had been stationed above Earth and on other mining planets.”

What are “other mining planets”?

15. You said ” Soon, word of what was occurring on the Earth, reached the leaders of the Collective”.

Who or what is the Collective ?

16. You said ” These leaders demanded to be brought an E-hum for examination. The Elohim were very worried that their leaders, who considered what they had created to be an abomination, would order all E- hums destroyed. They had no choice but to obey, and to send one of their creations to the great vessel now orbiting the Earth.”

What is “the great vessel now orbiting the Earth.” ?

17. You said ” When this E-hum arrived, he was questioned and examined thoroughly by the leaders. They were enchanted with this little version of themselves, and said so to the Elohim in charge of Earth. They ordered that the E-hums be taught civilization, as well as establishing rules governing their care. This is the story found in Genesis, chapter 5.”

Genesis 5 in my Bible says:

” 1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the time that God created man, in the likeness of God he was brought forth. 2 Male and Female He created them, and blessed them, and called their name Man (same as Adam), in the time that they were created. 3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years (or 230?) and became the father of a son in his own likeness, resembling himself; and called his name Seth;
4 And the days of Adam after he had become the father of Seth were eight hundred years (or 700?); and he had sons and daughters; 5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. 6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years (or 205?), and became the forefather of Enos; 7 And Seth lived after he became the forefather of Enos eight hundred and seven years (or 707?), and had sons and daughters; 8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died. 9 And Enos lived ninety years (or 190?), and became the forefather of Cainan; 10 And Enos lived after he became the forefather of Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years (or 715?), and had sons and daughters; 11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years, and he died. 12 And Cainan lived seventy years (or 170?), and became the forefather of Mahalaleel; 13 And Cainan lived after he became the forefather of Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years (or 740?), and had sons and daughters; 14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years, and he died. 15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty five years (or 165?), and became the forefather of Jared; 16 And Mahalaleel lived after he became the forefather of Jared eight hundred and thirty years (or 730?), and had sons and daughters; 17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years, and he died. 18 And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and became the forefather of Enoch; 19 And Jared lived after he became the forefather of Enoch eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters; 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years, and he died. 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years (or 165?), and became the forefather of Methuselah; 22 And Enoch walked (or pleased, or followed, or conversed) with God after he became the forefather of Methuselah three hundred years (or 200?), and had sons and daughters; 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years; 24 And Enoch walked (or pleased, or followed, or conversed) with God; and he was not; for God took him. 25 And Methuselah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and became the father of Lamech;26 And Methuselah lived after he became the father of Lamech seven hundred and eighty and two years, and had sons and daughters; 27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years, and he died. 28 And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years (or 188?), and had a son; 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This one will comfort us from our work and toil of our hands because of the soil which the Lord has cursed. 30 And Lamech lived after he became the father of Noah five hundred ninety and five years (or 565?), and had sons and daughters; 31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years (or 753?), and he died. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old when he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.”

How do you get that information from these verses ?

18. You said ” The mining engineers from Orion had come up with a plan to bring large amounts of molten sub-surface material to the surface. They would explode a large number of thermonuclear devices inside underwater volcanoes in the Atlantic. This would produce a lot of precipitation, and tidal flooding of the coastlines.”

Where did this information come from ?

19. You said All Annunaki were ordered inland from the coasts, and the entire base, at what you would call the island of Atlantis, was evacuated.”

And what would be the evidence for the existence of an island called “Atlantis” ?

20. You said ” The Elohim experimented with an indigenous form of pre-human. They combined some of their genetic material with that of pre-humans, producing a hybrid race of man - us.”

What is “ an indigenous form of pre-human”

I have many more questions of course, but every journey of a thousand miles begins with a few steps no ?

[Diplomat]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

20 questions! This could get rather 'interesting', though the responses - if any - might take the thread somewhat off track. I look forward to accepted's continuation of his thoughts.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] 20 questions! This could get rather 'interesting'... [/qb]

Yes it can. Actually I have read that piece (elsewhere) that Kimoni put up that Servant is questioning. They are some good questions indeed.

[Xaymacan Gold]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Well when you think about Elohim as the name that refers to the plurality of God, we do not necessarily have to take that to mean many DIFFERENT gods. I actually do believe that when He says "us" He is talking about ALL of Him which would mean He is talking to the Trinity. This is problematic for those who do not believe in a Trinity.
Another explanation that I have heard ( but do not accept) is that the "us" refers to the council in heaven. This falls apart for me because the council is not God. We are made in the image of God Himself not any other being. The only way I can reconcile this is to see the "us" as the Trinity.
Holla back

[ohliz]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Kimoni-Kojo:
Greetings Ohliz,

My statement was not intended to be in the manner of someone declaring to know it all and render anyone else that does not believe as I do, as stupid. Being of syncretic nature/thought, my statement is meant to knock down the barriers of those that think one-sided in the hopes that they will accept the possibility of what they already believe in can be combined with things they may not be aware of, to arrive at a better understanding of truth. Never have I nor will I declare that one side of the story is absolutely correct, that would be outside of my nature of being a syncretic. So I personally apologize to you or anyone if my statement came across in the manner that you described. Again, that was not my intent.

Thanks for clarifying....I guess I already think from several sides...I never thought the story in Genesis was the one and only true creation story, having read so many that predate it (and that have, as you pointed out, many similarities to it). I've always read Genesis as a story that contains some truth but also borrows from various creation myths/explanations that came before, and also got a little editing from those that wrote it and later from those that translated it, and I still view it that way.

I mentally put UFO's about where I put angels and a single God - until one hops down in a populated area in daytime to chat, that is [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

(I do believe in God but I don't think the Bible has the concept completely, just parts)

[Diplomat]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Xaymacan Gold: Interesting thoughts. Are you suggesting that IF there is a heavenly council, that the members - whoever they are - would look different than God? We are made in the image of God, but the Word also tells us "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." That tells me we are imaged no different than the "us".

For the record let me state that I am a 'Trinity' believer and do believe the "us" in that verse refers to that Body. I also appreciate that for those who believe otherwise, the explanation is unsatisfactory/unacceptable.

[Kimoni]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Greetings Servant,

I will definitely answer each of your 20 questions. For the moment, I will give a general response by stating that, I have gathered much of my information from many resources over the past eight years or so, please bear with me as I take my time in getting back to you in providing specific answers to your questions. I noticed in your questions and your own follow-up answers to some of them, you refered only to the Bible ( a single source). My information again, comes from multiple sources.

In the meantime look into where I have received my information/knowledge:

The Book of Enoch
Sumerian History
Northwest Nazarene University
The Apocrypha
The Torah
The Pseudepigrapha
History of Emporer Constantine

[servant]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

"I noticed in your questions and your own follow-up answers to some of them, you refered only to the Bible"

A point of clarification.

I quoted "only" the Bible because you said that a particular passage, in the Bible, said thus and so. I quoted the verses and chapters you made reference to in their entirety so that would be no confusion about what exactly it was that you were referring us to. I am trying to get clarity on these references so I must, of necessity, refer to them no ? It is you who brought these Bible verses up in the first place my friend, not I.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Psalm 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He judgeth...


Can you say redundant, unless...

[accepted77]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Accepted you said this:

"Every lie since have been a twist of a fragment of truth. The anakut is just an ancient twist. An ancient one but still a twist..."


The question now becomes, which came first - the truth or lie? Remember that the Sumerians came with their story first and the Hebrews via Abraham of Ur (an anccient Sumerians city) came ages later with their version of the accounts. It was not the other way around. [/qb]

Thanks Mutty and CEW.

Mutty you are well aware of the verbal tradition of the Bible while I am in no way supporting the RCC Magisterium, the Oral tradition preceeds the written by eons.

The first book of the Bible, we see the first example of God communicating with man.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man,... Gen 2:16

God's first direction to man was not written, it was verbal. This sets a pattern that is repeated throughout the Bible, with only one exception. Each time that God communicated to man, the information was transferred without any written component. The single exception is the ten commandments. The fact that God made such a dramatic exception to His rule of non-written communication should give us pause.

The Summerians may have recorded after the deluge by associating with hidden knowledge of the nephelim whereas there is strong evidence that writing was outlawed by the Hebrews because of the flood.

Recall the source of post-flood writings is said to be the discovery of a pre-flood stone tablet in a cave, which Nimrod used to establish his mystery religions in Babel.

The curse of "Babel" (confusion of languages) complicated the ease with which men relapsed back to pre-flood demonic evil. This made deciphering of the hidden things of the Nephalim to be lost even when found after the deluge. It also created the polytheism of "elder gods" as each new "tongue" appropiated its "elohim". Thor and Zeus both gods of thunder etc.

I see two spiritual cultures after Babel fell, Hebrews resorting to "book burning" sorry "tablet crashing" and returning to the Oral traditions. Imagine recent memories of a deluge and current examples of a confusion of tongues, they must have feared each day a new catastrophe as punishment in following the sins of their ancestors.
Its a sobering thought that diseases and pestilence would be rife after a deluge as described in the bible, and fear would be a factor each day of their lives, as the human community strugled on the verge of extinction. Hence their unity of purpose to stick togather and build a tower to escape any new deluge.

Sumer accomodating those who treasured this "hidden knowledge" as the progress of civilization.
Simarily a defiance for the Hebrew God would be rife and men would seek out any help to aid them against a future deluge.
A return to the protection of the old Gods would also be driven by fear of the Hebrew God doing a two-peat on the flood.

Two truths developed, "And God said"... The Hebrews.

"And the knowledge derived from the ancient elohim shows" The Sumerians.

Eventually God did school a prophet in Egypt and "parol evidence" (the written surplanting the oral) developed...

22 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel,

3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the LORD and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, and said, "All the words which the LORD has spoken we will do!"

4 And Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD. Ex 20:22a; 24:3-4a

Here we find Moses in an audience with God, and then he recounts "all" that God told him. Then he wrote down "all" that God told him.

Take your pick which represented the truth of God.

[Mutty]

Re: The mysterious "us" of Genesis 1:26 and 11:7

Accepted I am having a hard time following your last post. Can you break it down for the dumb, please? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]