Should Patois be the official ja language?

[babydoll]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

I had another thought on this subject. How would they standardize it? For example, I am from trelawny and I know I can't understand the people from some of the other parishes because they use unfamilar words to me.

Case in point. When I was a little girl, I went w/ my Aunt to Mocho Mountain (it was her job to report on the Post offices, etc). There were some kids playing not far from the post office and to be honest, it was greek to me.

All the parishes have some version of their own patois ...so which one would it be?/

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

trivial. document differences. make them available in references. adopt most widespread features.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

Ithought this was dead!! With all the number of PHDs that discussed it on these boards.
For the last time.
A language is not about culture. It is about communication.
As a result any language that is not the language of science,Law or commerce,of the widest majority,will restrict the speakers to only the meagre recorded artifacts recorded in that language.
this whole idea of making patwa Jamaica's official language is nothing but a conspiracy to keep the majority of Jamaican of the future ignorant an illiterate to the all but that which is recorded in the language.
can yoiu explain why should a country that cant adequately educate it's population in the most widely used language of power (science,law and commerce),waste money on creating an official status of a language that is only spoken by probablt 5 million people?
think of the limited scope for education,since people educated in the language will have only limited english skills,if any.
Not to talk about sattelite TV. They won't be able to understand it

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

then they use the failed ideology of the Boers of South Africa as an example!!

What next??
The Afrikaans speakers will have to use some other language or to get in the internet,because they won't have the programs in their language.
How much will it cost,to translate all the world knowledge. Not to talk abot commerce. We could use the phone to speak with anyone but Jamaicans.
This is getting intresting.

[fyrfli]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

You know it is truly saddening to me that this is the sort of thing that people spend their time on. What would happen to the world if every single nation in it decided to make their own language and adopt it as their own to exhibit national pride.

You talk about Canada having 2 official languages - which one of them originated right there? PLUS, can you be any more proud of your country than a Canadian?

No - our dialect is just that - a dialect, it is not a language, it has no concrete structure or grammar - it cannot qualify as a language... Aruba has a dialect, it's just as key to their culture as ours is to us, but it is not their official language.

You want to talk about national pride? Then spend the time and money teaching our young-uns about our history, our heros, our accomplishments... stop talking about official language - it is petty.

mek ah si whedda dem ah goh delete dah wan ya tuh

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:
[qb] Ithought this was dead!! With all the number of PHDs that discussed it on these boards.
For the last time.
A language is not about culture. It is about communication.
As a result any language that is not the language of science,Law or commerce,of the widest majority,will restrict the speakers to only the meagre recorded artifacts recorded in that language.
this whole idea of making patwa Jamaica's official language is nothing but a conspiracy to keep the majority of Jamaican of the future ignorant an illiterate to the all but that which is recorded in the language.
can yoiu explain why should a country that cant adequately educate it's population in the most widely used language of power (science,law and commerce),waste money on creating an official status of a language that is only spoken by probablt 5 million people?
think of the limited scope for education,since people educated in the language will have only limited english skills,if any.
Not to talk about sattelite TV. They won't be able to understand it [/qb]

and jamaicans can never be bilingual? teach english. teach patois. it's not difficult. i think there's something you're missing in your description of language.

it's not all a conspiracy man.

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

there is a structure to patois .. what are you talking about? you can't speak patois arbitrarily. there are rules governing its use.

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

..

[Mahkka]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

The reason why this topic is not "dead" is probably because "truth crushed to the ground will still rise."

Patwa is a unique Jamaican Invention. Created by slaves at a time when reading and writing was punishable by death, it is a living and enduring testimony to the indomitable spirit and creativity of people who would not succumb to the worst kind of inhumanity.

Patwa was there from the beginning--when it the only form of communication we knew and was allowed to use. Through it, we kept our creativity and humanity alive, producing artist, poets, builders and educators. It is indeed a rich language-- a verbal repository of our triumphs and defeats. It chronicles our entire experiences as a people.

There is nothing restrictive or limited about the language. For if it was, we would not have evolved…not have survived.

There is nothing petty about patwa. What is petty is the notion that if you hide your patwa- speaking granny away from your corporate friends you can somehow continue to validate your membership in “society”...figuratively speaking. It’s akin to denying slavery as if we should bear the opprobrium of its infliction. Yes, many of us are a shamed of the language and have relegated it a "common, unrefined tongue".

Adopted as an “official” language or not, I will continue to speak it and I will teach it to my children.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

So patwa is a unique jamaican invention!!
So isn't all language uniquely developed by the originators?
....and what is really unique about patwa?


Why teach something that everybody already learns before school?
Why not teach eating,and speaking too?
Patwa has not been taught,in it's history,and every Jamaican knows it,why should it be taught now??

Draino,you are new to this,but believe me,there is actually a project documented,to develope Jamaican patwa,as a world language of all workers.
It is actually over 20 years old.
This is to seperate the rulers from the workers,and make it easier to transfer workers from countey to country abd have a seamless working environment.
All this is to return the world to universal one slavery again.

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

global conspiracy again doctor?

let me use your argument. in england, people already speak english, why should they bother to teach them in schools?

if a people have no literary tradition in their own language/dialect/creole (whatever you choose to call it) then shouldn't we set things in motion so that they can have one?

being bilingual is easy doc. jamaicans can master patois (have a formal system) and master english. literacy is jamaica's problem.

i appreciate patois because it is a part of my cultural identity and i wish to preserve it. do you understand how many jamaican youth no longer speak patois or cannot identify with it? this may be desirable for some but i see it as a grave loss. i know english but i know that there are modes of expressing myself in patois that cannot be reproduced in english simply because the english forms are removed from jamaican culture.

you, on the other hand, see language in a very clinical way and undervalue the emotive properties of language. these emotive properties that are found in patois are jamaican.

as an urban youth i know that the last stronghold of patois is in the countryside. many jamaican urban youth are under the impression that they speak patois but they are mistaken. they are disconnected from the jamaican identity and they do not know it. a new identity is emerging and its shape is american.

there are no plots and machinations to enslave us through our language dr. dudd. you have been reading too much of the "protocols of the elders of zion."

we are a people struggling to create our national identity. our language is more than a dialect. in many ways, it has not retained the original syntax of english. it has developed its own vocabulary.

i challenge anyone to show me that patois is not a language and i will show that he is in error.

why is it so much to ask that jamaicans learn english and patois, in order that we can begin our own proper literary tradition in our language?

[esp]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

Originally posted by JamBrit:
[qb]

Originally posted by Ms. Powell:
[qb] waieeeee mi belley.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

***jus a imagine PJ a talk to international government officials ina patois*** [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [/qb]

*BOAL* ~ Waaiiieee, Ms. Powell, can yuh imagine?? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

"Ahem.....good hevelin nice an genkle people, most hanarebble ministaz an distinguish guess. Ahm, before wi goh eena di cawze fi dis meetin, mi juss waan clear up sitten. Di suss wat is spreadin bout mi is a batty man is lie an I want unoo doan pay such untroot any mine...yuh hear mi? Arrite, good....run di meetin!" [/qb]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[sexyliciousjadehya]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

Originally posted by draino:
global conspiracy again doctor?

let me use your argument. in england, people already speak english, why should they bother to teach them in schools?

because it necessary, not because you can speak it means that you can write a paper and be grammatically correct.

if a people have no literary tradition in their own language/dialect/creole (whatever you choose to call it) then shouldn't we set things in motion so that they can have one?

being bilingual is easy doc. jamaicans can master patois (have a formal system) and master english. literacy is jamaica's problem.

i appreciate patois because it is a part of my cultural identity and i wish to preserve it. do you understand how many jamaican youth no longer speak patois or cannot identify with it? this may be desirable for some but i see it as a grave loss. i know english but i know that there are modes of expressing myself in patois that cannot be reproduced in english simply because the english forms are removed from jamaican culture.

Repsonse:
that is a choice that they make or the parent teach them not to speak patios....I will never for one figet mi language or culture and tek up no baddi else own cause, mi nuh own dem country and at anytime dem can decide fi throw mi out. And u know wah JA nah refuse me.


i challenge anyone to show me that patois is not a language and i will show that he is in error.


Response: I agree with you patios is a language, it is our language and we should be proud.

why is it so much to ask that jamaicans learn english and patois, in order that we can begin our own proper literary tradition in our language?


Repsonse: No offence to anyone, but some Jamaican people feel that it is not appropriate to speak patios, them want fi act like dem stush, but their are some JA that embrace patios. They know when to speak patios and when to speak english.

[draino]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

which came first? the language or the writing?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Should Patois be the official ja language?

Draino I can see that you have a lot to learn.
If you are to have your posts gain respect,you should stop writing blanket statements about topics that you are ignorant about. 'How do you know that there is no policy to develope the Jamaican patois and use it as the international language of workers?
I can understand if you said you do not believe it,but to say it does not exist,is down right irresponsible.
Do you know for a fact that it does not exist?

whty would international organizations sponsor whole fellowships to develope post graduate disci-lines in tthe jamaican language at the UWI.
they even have phd in it,while the chronic crime is all but ignored.
Do you think it is that important to these organizations?

Knowledge is not limited to your findings. they more you find out the more you will realize that you really did not know much.
This world is not run by a plethora of co-incidences. It is mainly planned.
Some plans go according to script,and others,are not as successful,but don't take too much for granted,or your may go the way of others that do.

One example is Aristide.

Incidentally,I have seen the early workings of the same happening in Jamaica.
As a matter of fact,the move is to psychologically assasinate leaders in bothe politaca parties,that are not beholding to the puppet masters.