jamaicans have too much pride..

[BND1999]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb] It's always a good thing to move up in the world, but don't act like you're better than anyone else and as if you never had it hard. When you get there, send the ladder back down for someone else.
[/qb]

Nicely said..

[Jazz]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

The common term for it here is bourgeois (pronounced boo-jee) - which many use and cannot spell. and if i had a dollar fro every time i have been called that I would be a millionaire...

the thing is around the job if you are not particiapating in the water cooler gossip, or don;t spend company time engaging in frivolous conversations about how you spent yoru friday night getting wasted... they say you are uppity and "boo-jee"
If you wear nice corpoarte type suits and do not have your pants pasted on your *** - you are "boo-jee"

If you want certain things or have acertain standard that you want to maintain for your family and yourself - why shouold u lower that standard to avoid people thinking that you are "boo-jee"?

Isn;t the thing in life that you are always supposed to strive to go higher and higher? why should people have to apologize for ambition?

and if I am to follow tht trian of thought here - becasue I am an immigrant who has a decent job I should be so grateful for that that I should never seek to better my circumstances or move to a nicer neighbourhood for fear that people may think I am "boo-jee"

I know I am one PROUD JAMAICAN an damn proud of it and I will never apologize for that - ah so mi born an grow, ah so mi madda an faada raise mi fe have pride inna who mi be and fe wuk hawd...an mi have nuff to be proud of...

[777]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

I know I am one PROUD JAMAICAN an proud of it and I will never apologize for that - ah so mi born an grow, ah so mi madda an faada raise mi fe have pride inna who mi be and fe wuk hawd...an mi have nuff to be proud of...

Well said Sista Jazz, well said..

[777]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

I have "heard" people who have problems with Jamaican people say, that for them to come from a third world country (that's what Americans believe even if Ja. don't) they come here, benefit from free schooling and other privileges, get a good job or two, then act as though they were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth. That's the sentiment of conversations I've heard about Jamaicans as well as Africans.

I read this and I think that there are underlying issues here..
In the US, the government also gives free schooling to anyone who wants it..
CUNY used to give free tuition in the 70's to the entire NYC, and still does to mothers on welfare, incarcerated individuals, poor people, middle class .... and the list goes on and on today..
In other states, the free tuition program still goes on today...(I speak for NJ)
Its just a pity that many americans fail to take advantage of this opportunity and others do....
Can we be truly blamed for this?
Dont mistake ambition for injudicious pride.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[777]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

I have found that in my experience every person that implied that I was too uppity,had very low self esteem lacked the ability to compete.

Oh, oh...

[neutral]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by Jazz:
[qb] The common term for it here is bourgeois (pronounced boo-jee) - which many use and cannot spell. and if i had a dollar fro every time i have been called that I would be a millionaire...

the thing is around the job if you are not particiapating in the water cooler gossip, or don;t spend company time engaging in frivolous conversations about how you spent yoru friday night getting wasted... they say you are uppity and "boo-jee"
If you wear nice corpoarte type suits and do not have your pants pasted on your *** - you are "boo-jee"

If you want certain things or have acertain standard that you want to maintain for your family and yourself - why shouold u lower that standard to avoid people thinking that you are "boo-jee"?

Isn;t the thing in life that you are always supposed to strive to go higher and higher? why should people have to apologize for ambition?

and if I am to follow tht trian of thought here - becasue I am an immigrant who has a decent job I should be so grateful for that that I should never seek to better my circumstances or move to a nicer neighbourhood for fear that people may think I am "boo-jee"

I know I am one PROUD JAMAICAN an damn proud of it and I will never apologize for that - ah so mi born an grow, ah so mi madda an faada raise mi fe have pride inna who mi be and fe wuk hawd...an mi have nuff to be proud of... [/qb]

as usual jazz,I really appreciate your straight-forwardness,you come across as a very strong and proud jamaican woman,and I like that.

I personally do not have to make excuses for what I am,...my granny used to say,"no tell mi what mi was,tell mi what mi is".
some people are under the misconception that we are poor little island folks that should be grateful for being rescued by uncle sam,or whatever country we migrated to,..I say,to hell with you!!
we are a proud people,if one works hard,why shouldnt one strive to elevate oneself,and if that means moving to a more salubrious area,then why the hell not,the same would apply if one lived in jamaica.
I personally will never apologise for striving to rise among the riff-raff,whether black,blue,pink,or white.
I want the best for myself and my family,and dont care who thinks I am a "boo-jee",their opinions are not important.
there will always be an underlying mentality amongst certain quarters that assume that you are just some uppity little island person who should be eternally grateful for breathing their trusted air....I say to hell with that!!
I made it on my own merit,and would have done,regardless of whatever country I live in,thats the level of my motivation.
and if perchance I see you lagging behind through your own laziness,I will pull that ladder up without blinking an eye,regardless of what colour you are,afterall,I dont owe you anything.
my strong work ethic was instilled in me from a very early age,and I am proud of my jamaican roots,so dont ever make the mistake that I am going to be so "grateful" to whichever country I settle in that i can forget my strong jamaican pride,its all *my* own work,not yours.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:
[qb] MsGoodyTS states"But they are very judgmental of their neighbors. One evening I was there and she was so upset because the neighbors daughter had 2 or 3 young men hanging around the house all day in the absence of her parents. She talked about how fast the girl was and this and this. She wanted to go talk to the parents. Her husband said she cannot dictate what goes on at someone else' house. She finally shushed.

Dudd: This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. That is the behavior of one person,and I am sure you will find many people of every nationallity,and possibly in your own family that displays such behavior. [/qb]

It has everything to do with their "you don't belong in our neighborhood" attitude. Therefore, it is on the topic. And no, not in my family. Our clan was raised on the principles that all people are created equal and no one is better than the other regardless of social or economic status. We treat whites and blacks the same way. Rich and poor included.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by 777:
[qb]

I have "heard" people who have problems with Jamaican people say, that for them to come from a third world country (that's what Americans believe even if Ja. don't) they come here, benefit from free schooling and other privileges, get a good job or two, then act as though they were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth. That's the sentiment of conversations I've heard about Jamaicans as well as Africans.

I read this and I think that there are underlying issues here..
In the US, the government also gives free schooling to anyone who wants it..
CUNY used to give free tuition in the 70's to the entire NYC, and still does to mothers on welfare, incarcerated individuals, poor people, middle class .... and the list goes on and on today..
In other states, the free tuition program still goes on today...(I speak for NJ)
Its just a pity that many americans fail to take advantage of this opportunity and others do....
Can we be truly blamed for this?
Dont mistake ambition for injudicious pride.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

The difference is, Americans have to have a certain impediment to receive these free tuitions. Welfare, poor, incarcerated, etc. Immigrants receive it just for crossing over the line. It's one of the privileges of being an alien. Most Americans do not take advantage of it because of all the hoops they have to jump through just to get it. We have to have a pretty darn good reason for needed assistant in any way. You have to give your whole life history almost. It's more opportunity than ambition.

[Jazz]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]

Originally posted by 777:
[qb]

I have "heard" people who have problems with Jamaican people say, that for them to come from a third world country (that's what Americans believe even if Ja. don't) they come here, benefit from free schooling and other privileges, get a good job or two, then act as though they were raised with a silver spoon in their mouth. That's the sentiment of conversations I've heard about Jamaicans as well as Africans.

I read this and I think that there are underlying issues here..
In the US, the government also gives free schooling to anyone who wants it..
CUNY used to give free tuition in the 70's to the entire NYC, and still does to mothers on welfare, incarcerated individuals, poor people, middle class .... and the list goes on and on today..
In other states, the free tuition program still goes on today...(I speak for NJ)
Its just a pity that many americans fail to take advantage of this opportunity and others do....
Can we be truly blamed for this?
Dont mistake ambition for injudicious pride.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

The difference is, Americans have to have a certain impediment to receive these free tuitions. Welfare, poor, incarcerated, etc. Immigrants receive it just for crossing over the line. It's one of the privileges of being an alien. Most Americans do not take advantage of it because of all the hoops they have to jump through just to get it. We have to have a pretty darn good reason for needed assistant in any way. You have to give your whole life history almost. It's more opportunity than ambition. [/qb]

Hmmm - this is interesting... can i share a few experiences with you??
I know of several Jamaicans who migrated here and did the MOST menial of jobs, cleaning up old peoples poop, working in sitations that I have heard a lot of those born here say they would NEVER work...
I have seen 2 of these people go on to get a masters degree and move up the corporate ladder without EVER once taking welfare or living off the system in any way... quite rightly after acheiving a level of success their standard of living has also risen... they have moved into nice neighborhoods and are able to afford things fro their children which they never had...
Now people looking at them and not knowing the circumstances that they came through would look at them and say after taking advantage of the system they are now putting on airs...
Thats Hogwash! - they worked hard and dirty for every cent they made and are entitled to emjoy it and better their lives as they see fit...

on the flip side... I own a home that i rent out.. I made the decision to allow section 8 renters becasue i felt that everyone deserves a chance to live somewhere decent... (most home sitn that neighbourhood that are rented exclude section 8 renters) - I met a very pleasnt younglady who was on section 8 but seemd very decent and i rented the property to her... she has beent here for almost 4 years and is a very good tenant keeps the place very neat... however, I happen to know - that the circumstances that she reported to the section 8 housing is not accurate... an her income is way more than reported... not only that she has gotten married since she movind in and i know she hasn;t told them that she has additional income coming in or she would nto qaulify for the program...
incase you are wondering she is american born and raised...
so please don;t tellme that americans don;t often take advantage of the programs offered or that they don;t know hwo to take advantage of these programs...

I am not gonna dime her out - as i say she is a very good tenant and the rent checks fropm the housing authority are never late... live and let live i say...

but some people cannot be content when they see other people striving or bettering themselves they must alwasy have something negative or snide to say... and imeediate;y those people are branded uppity...

most Jamaican immigrants i know have never taken any form of help from the government - not saying others don't but i can only speak to the ones I know.
an again I will never apologize fro being a proud Jamaican

(((((((Neutral))))))))

[j-kid]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Mek mi try explain Jamaican Pride to some ah di smaddi out deh whe noh understand it, by giving yu an example. It noh necessarily haffi duh wid money, degrees or nice things, those are just one component in di equation. It is how yuh carry yuhself. I along (with many Jamaicans here) will tell you that we grew up with people who had dirt floors and zinc or scrap boards for walls, with newspaper to cover the holes (that also includes me in my early years). But, and this is a big BUT, everyday the (dirt) floor in that simple dwelling was well swept, it was kept very clean. Some could not afford a broom, however they did not use that as an excuse to sit on their behind and mek excuses why di place look nasty. They would go out and get a branch from the local coconut tree or tie some bushes together and sweep the floor in and outside their little shack. These people, for the most part, were also without conventional kitchen utensils.

They used empty discarded cans as plates and glass/cups, and large tins pans as cooking pots (after scrubbing them very clean). They were some of the cleanest utensils you ever saw. They would wash and scrub these cans and tins after each meal and turn them upside down to dry on their table (usually makeshift empty wooden boxes pieced together to be made practical). I was always very proud to eat from these kind of individuals regardless of their circumstances in life, because they were so clean and exhibited so much pride in themselves, in spite of their status in life. They were always striving to make their surroundings better than it was by being resourceful with the little that they had. I have had some of the best times and had some of the best meals in surroundings like these, and would happily go even now if invited to partake.

If one don’t exhibit pride on one self, it comes through loud and clear.

Remember these are the descendants of people, who during slavery days kicked the British Soldiers butts and got them out of Jamaica. That is another topic, but I said that to illustrate that my people as a whole don’t believe in sitting around feeling sorry for themselves and making feeble excuses, we have enough pride and self-respect to tek di bull by di horns an duh suppen bout it.

Peace!

[j-kid]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb] [QUOTEThe difference is, Americans have to have a certain impediment to receive these free tuitions. Welfare, poor, incarcerated, etc. Immigrants receive it just for crossing over the line. It's one of the privileges of being an alien. Most Americans do not take advantage of it because of all the hoops they have to jump through just to get it. We have to have a pretty darn good reason for needed assistant in any way. You have to give your whole life history almost. It's more opportunity than ambition. [/qb]

With all due respect to you, that is a bunch of nonsense that has been spreading around for years. I have heard those statements floating around for years and there is little truth to it. There is always two sides to every story. If you dig deep enough you will find the truth. There are a few circumstances that exceptions are made, but for the most part the, same opportunities that foreigners make use of, are also available to American Citizens. If anything it is the other way around, there are far more things and benefits available as an American Citizen than if you have Alien status.

[Jazz]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by J-kid:
[qb] Mek mi try explain Jamaican Pride to some ah di smaddi out deh whe noh understand it, by giving yu an example. It noh necessarily haffi duh wid money, degrees or nice things, those are just one component in di equation. It is how yuh carry yuhself. I along (with many Jamaicans here) will tell you that we grew up with people who had dirt floors and zinc or scrap boards for walls, with newspaper to cover the holes (that also includes me in my early years). But, and this is a big BUT, everyday the (dirt) floor in that simple dwelling was well swept, it was kept very clean. Some could not afford a broom, however they did not use that as an excuse to sit on their behind and mek excuses why di place look nasty. They would go out and get a branch from the local coconut tree or tie some bushes together and sweep the floor in and outside their little shack. These people, for the most part, were also without conventional kitchen utensils.

They used empty discarded cans as plates and glass/cups, and large tins pans as cooking pots (after scrubbing them very clean). They were some of the cleanest utensils you ever saw. They would wash and scrub these cans and tins after each meal and turn them upside down to dry on their table (usually makeshift empty wooden boxes pieced together to be made practical). I was always very proud to eat from these kind of individuals regardless of their circumstances in life, because they were so clean and exhibited so much pride in themselves, in spite of their status in life. They were always striving to make their surroundings better than it was by being resourceful with the little that they had. I have had some of the best times and had some of the best meals in surroundings like these, and would happily go even now if invited to partake.

If one don’t exhibit pride on one self, it comes through loud and clear.

Remember these are the descendants of people, who during slavery days kicked the British Soldiers butts and got them out of Jamaica. That is another topic, but I said that to illustrate that my people as a whole don’t believe in sitting around feeling sorry for themselves and making feeble excuses, we have enough pride and self-respect to tek di bull by di horns an duh suppen bout it.

Peace! [/qb]

******CLAP, CLAP, CLAP***** Hear hear J-KId...
could not have said it better myself!

[777]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[QUOTEThe difference is, Americans have to have a certain impediment to receive these free tuitions. Welfare, poor, incarcerated, etc. Immigrants receive it just for crossing over the line. It's one of the privileges of being an alien. Most Americans do not take advantage of it because of all the hoops they have to jump through just to get it. We have to have a pretty darn good reason for needed assistant in any way. You have to give your whole life history almost. It's more opportunity than ambition.

I dont think that that is the case Ms Goody..
We too have to have certain criterias to fulfill in order to get monies to go to school..
we dont just get these benefits because we are aliens.. Uh, uh...thats wrong information.
The only difference with some of us is that we will do whatever we have to do to succeed..
We dont worry about giving our life history,or jumping thru hoops as you say, because its necessary in order to receive this funding... . Why should *that* be a problem?

The Americans are so used to having everything given to them so they feel that its *their* fundamental right if they choose to not work, to have these benefits. Now an american that is disabled, or cannot truly work, thats a whole different ballgame, but one who chooses to be lazy and live off the system, now that purely imbecilic....

Most jamaicans would rather work numerous jobs,and maintain their pride and dignity to get where they want to be. We are told by our families that hard work is its own ultimate reward, so we work hard and maintain that motto.
Most Americans will not even work at McDonalds. Too much beneath them..
They would rather use the system to get benefits and stay at home..
Noh true? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Boricua_papi]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Originally posted by Jazz:
[qb] The common term for it here is bourgeois (pronounced boo-jee) - which many use and cannot spell. and if i had a dollar fro every time i have been called that I would be a millionaire...

the thing is around the job if you are not particiapating in the water cooler gossip, or don;t spend company time engaging in frivolous conversations about how you spent yoru friday night getting wasted... they say you are uppity and "boo-jee"
If you wear nice corpoarte type suits and do not have your pants pasted on your *** - you are "boo-jee"

If you want certain things or have acertain standard that you want to maintain for your family and yourself - why shouold u lower that standard to avoid people thinking that you are "boo-jee"?

Isn;t the thing in life that you are always supposed to strive to go higher and higher? why should people have to apologize for ambition?

and if I am to follow tht trian of thought here - becasue I am an immigrant who has a decent job I should be so grateful for that that I should never seek to better my circumstances or move to a nicer neighbourhood for fear that people may think I am "boo-jee"

I know I am one PROUD JAMAICAN an damn proud of it and I will never apologize for that - ah so mi born an grow, ah so mi madda an faada raise mi fe have pride inna who mi be and fe wuk hawd...an mi have nuff to be proud of... [/qb]

*APPLAUSE APPLAUSE* (an wan wolf whistle)

What a weh yuh hab wid werds Jazzy. Yuh boojee an proud! Now tep awf di soap box wid yuh uppity self. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Boricua_papi]

Re: jamaicans have too much pride..

Pride comes in many national, cultural, and ethnic flavors - each one distinct and special. Pride is never boastful, it is assured. Pride is never arrogant, it is humble. Pride imbues the essence of self with the strength to persevere and the ambition to strive for our betterment.

-From a proud Puerto Rican