What is Obeah?

[JesusDread]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by MissB:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb] Obeah is a demonic religion that uses spells and evil spirits to harm and bring misfortune on the practitioner’s enemies.[/qb]

Yep, that's what the British told our forefathers. Why should we believe the people who put us in chains and what they say about our origins?

[/qb]

Is not only the British say so. A lot of bad minded Jamaicans tell mi too. Dem tell mi seh mi no have long fi live, some seh mi a go tun mad, some seh mi a go tun wutless an all amnner of evil. All mi ex-wife go obeahman regularly fi me, LOL

[/qb]

Much is now explained. [/qb]

What, planning to put a spell on me too?

I hear that Hotlanta have a lot of the guzum up there too! Maybe you the high priest up deh...


[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Fledgist]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by MissB:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb] Obeah is a demonic religion that uses spells and evil spirits to harm and bring misfortune on the practitioner’s enemies.[/qb]

Yep, that's what the British told our forefathers. Why should we believe the people who put us in chains and what they say about our origins?

[/qb]

Is not only the British say so. A lot of bad minded Jamaicans tell mi too. Dem tell mi seh mi no have long fi live, some seh mi a go tun mad, some seh mi a go tun wutless an all amnner of evil. All mi ex-wife go obeahman regularly fi me, LOL

[/qb]

Much is now explained. [/qb]

What, planning to put a spell on me too?

{Fledgist: Why would I do that?}

I hear that Hotlanta have a lot of the guzum up there too! Maybe you the high priest up deh...


[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

I have the same chance of being that as you have of showing ordinary decency.

[rufian]

Re: What is Obeah?

mek me just call smaddi fe come help me wid de board [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: What is Obeah?

I still don't know what obeah is.

[britisha]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by MissB:
[qb] I still don't know what obeah is. [/qb]

From the links posted, I tend to agree they weren't specific. It seems more of a historical account [the link by POD] of what used to go on during slavery. Much of the information is from non-blacks/Africans who put their own interpretation on the practices of the slaves/folks that they encountered.

I notice that they linked Pocomania with Obeah, as well as Bedward. The same for "hammer and nails." My mother used to tell us about Bedward as told to her by her mother, but from what I can remember, she didn't seh he was an obeahman, more of a samfie artist; telling the people that he had certain power to do this and that..

[joke]..mi noh know how chruu dis is, but she said that 'though he was suspected he lost credibility finally when he told them that he could send rain from the heavens..what he did was, [to] climb a rather high ladder and urinated on the folks below..mi haffi tek bad sinting mek laff ..and which wasn't too well received by the folks below.**chuckle**..and of course a display of a mental problem on his part if you ask me.] I am surprised that the piece didn't mention this.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Regard of what the slave masters and others said, the fact still remains that the slaves believed in something, following the tradition of their native country, and practiced among slaves in other countries as well. The whites labeled it Paganism and occult practices.. akin to witchcraft; of course downplaying their traditional beliefs.

Some of the traditions were still in practice when I was growing up in Kingston, from the use of grave dirt, candles, hair, teeth, white fowl and the like. I had recounted here before where my brother and I wandered into a Poco yaawd a Trench Town and what we saw..but I don't know if I can link this to Obeah, since there was a Shepawd [Shepherd] and they used the Holy Bible.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Wan ooman used to roam the streets of Kgn at nights as well bawling out "prepare, prepare yuh hammer and ten-penny nail." She also had a Bible, so mi noh si di relationship with Obeah..unless as the tradtion fizzled out and the slaves were "christianized" they used the Bible, ie copying some of the slave masters' practices.

Mi noh know eida if Obeah was primarily for evil purposes, ie used by some for other than what it was intended and strike fear in people. In the same breath, anyone hearing of drawing and consulting the spirits could be afraid juss fram dat. People still use it to strike fear in people as well as people use it to attract good luck/fortune, "get" answers for mysterious happenings in their life or simply to "tun back blow" [[ie send back the curse/evil that someone sent them] at very expensive layout.

Some believe innah dem like when dem haff court case and bullfrog wid padlock pan ie moute woudda show up pan courthouse steps, and how some judge wudda dismiss dah case... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] and wha psalms fi read and wha fi duh a nite time a cotton tree..and which ile fi rub wid..all for gaining some desired outcome---good or bad--and mi know of Christians who read certain psalms for their enemies as well...to keep this in balance..
edited to add and in agreement with the piece Obeah was a secretive thing, it carried with it a stigma if ppl know seh yuh go a Obeah man/woman..plus since it is against the law, the Obeahman noh waan police fine out bout dem, aldoa mi sure some policeman go a obeahman tuh.. :LOL:

Mi membah wan African Am. neighbor, wan ooman here who travelled all the way into the hinterlands of Georgia to consult one such woman, and when she came back she went to the back of the building to dig up some dirt and do some other things as the woman recommended; all to keep her husband. Well mek a long story shaawt, di man still leff har innah di long run, far shi did miserable bad bad.

Getting back to the African aspect, some Africans even though they are Christianized still believe in some of these old customs, and appeasing the spirits etc...now they speak of libations among African-Americans and revering the ancestors..part of the culture living on.

[waiting for the critics on this one]

If you ask me, as we used to seh a yaawd, "belief kills and belief cures.."

MissB yuh seh yuh come fram yaawd, so mi almoas sure dat yuh hear some a demyah sinting befoe. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

Oono walk good.

[Green_Biscuit]

Re: What is Obeah?

Britisha,

I think that Obeah, and Wicca, a form of Paganism, have much in common. I don't think it is a coincidence that there is a comparison to Wicca, whether by white, green, purple people. I think that ancient religions of most continents - i.e. Africa, Asia, Europe, share many common beliefs and practices. Consider Obeah, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, and Native American Shaminism as examples. All (and others) are what may be described as earth-based, and share appreciations for energies, guides in various forms, intuition(by many names), and the will of humans (a form of energy). Thoughts are energy and energy cannot be destroyed. The parallels in world religions and beliefs go on and on. Frankly, I don't understand how so much religious prejudice can exist, if one just examines them, rather than the differences between them (and I am a Novice, at best). Peace and bright blessings.

[rufian]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:
[qb] Britisha,

I think that Obeah, and Wicca, a form of Paganism, have much in common. I don't think it is a coincidence that there is a comparison to Wicca, whether by white, green, purple people. I think that ancient religions of most continents - i.e. Africa, Asia, Europe, share many common beliefs and practices. Consider Obeah, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, and Native American Shaminism as examples. All (and others) are what may be described as earth-based, and share appreciations for energies, guides in various forms, intuition(by many names), and the will of humans (a form of energy). Thoughts are energy and energy cannot be destroyed. The parallels in world religions and beliefs go on and on. Frankly, I don't understand how so much religious prejudice can exist, if one just examines them, rather than the differences between them (and I am a Novice, at best). Peace and bright blessings. [/qb]

You cant put the horse behind the cart. And yet the horse and the cart does not have the same qualities. If you are a novice, have you ever examined them to make such a statement?

[rufian]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]
Wan ooman used to roam the streets of Kgn at nights as well bawling out "prepare, prepare yuh hammer and ten-penny nail." She also had a Bible, so mi noh si di relationship with Obeah..unless as the tradtion fizzled out and the slaves were "christianized" they used the Bible, ie copying some of the slave masters' practices.
[/qb]

that is simply because some things in the bible can be classified as obeah and linked to african tradition from where it most probably originated.

[britisha]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:
[qb] Britisha,

I think that Obeah, and Wicca, a form of Paganism, have much in common. I don't think it is a coincidence that there is a comparison to Wicca, whether by white, green, purple people. I think that ancient religions of most continents - i.e. Africa, Asia, Europe, share many common beliefs and practices. Consider Obeah, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, and Native American Shaminism as examples. All (and others) are what may be described as earth-based, and share appreciations for energies, guides in various forms, intuition(by many names), and the will of humans (a form of energy). Thoughts are energy and energy cannot be destroyed. The parallels in world religions and beliefs go on and on. Frankly, I don't understand how so much religious prejudice can exist, if one just examines them, rather than the differences between them (and I am a Novice, at best). Peace and bright blessings. [/qb]

You cant put the horse behind the cart. And yet the horse and the cart does not have the same qualities. If you are a novice, have you ever examined them to make such a statement? [/qb]

Excellent point Sukuna re the cart and the horse; henniways, GB said that she "think" meaning this is her opinion.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[britisha]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]
Wan ooman used to roam the streets of Kgn at nights as well bawling out "prepare, prepare yuh hammer and ten-penny nail." She also had a Bible, so mi noh si di relationship with Obeah..unless as the tradtion fizzled out and the slaves were "christianized" they used the Bible, ie copying some of the slave masters' practices.
[/qb]

that is simply because some things in the bible can be classified as obeah and linked to african tradition from where it most probably originated. [/qb]

Again another excellent point !!

In all fairness, African indigenous religions IMHO had to exist BC, and there are accounts that Christianity not only originated in Africa, but some of the old customs were copied such as the parables etc. Not that *I* necessarily agree about the parables, but the fact still remains that among those labeled as Obeah "workers" many of them still use the Bible. [I had posted another comment above but I ended up getting a "blank page from Microsoft..so mek mi chry agen.]

While there might be similarities betweeen Obeah and these other forms of religions that GB mentioned, and although I am not privy to any or all information as to what Obeah REALY is, I am sure that there are differences that sets Obeah apart from the others.

Note the use of the word "paganism," a label that the whiteman decided to ascribe to the practice according to their definition because of course, they imagined that their religion was superior to that of the Africans. I wondered if they sat down and learned from these people what they really believed, that is if they could understand them in the first place; or just jumped to the conclusion as to who or what they were "worshipping." A rhetorical question of course, for they wouldn't condescend IMHO to reason with slaves and/or their descendants...so we are just going by hearsay.

Maybe MissB can get an Afro-centric view on this for us..and

edited to add maybe the slaves decided to throw an evil mix into Obeah to counteract the whiteman's oppression, and drive fear in them, and it never reverted to what it was. By saying this I mean that although religion is only a belief primarily IMHO it SHOULD be for a "good" reason, not the other way around.

Now I'm in agreement with GB that "parallels in world religions and beliefs go on and on. Frankly, I don't understand how so much religious prejudice can exist,"..and this is the crux of the matter, if it "ain't white-originated" then it is inferior, and edited to add "my religion is better than yours..therefore".

Mark you, I am not defending Obeah, I do NOT believe in Obeah, I do NOT practice Obeah, but before we jump to condemn, mock, jeer what others believe we have to try to unerstand where they are coming from and the circumstances that lead to their having these beliefs.

They..the colonialists.. most certainly did a good job in certain aspects for the simple reason that as I said before Obeah carries with it a stigma. [If] you read the text again, you will see where they mentioned the use of "poison" and the like in some of these practices and I am sure that that drove fear into their hearts, more reason to outlaw them.

Who knows if these accounts are true?..They perceived Obeah as being a bad thing still yet one dared to mention that the parsons were leading a life of concubinage, morality was at an alltime low; and having the slaves work on the Sabbath...a no no according to the Good Book.

btw, I have a little book here, left among my mother's possesion, Jewish-related [parts of it in Hebrew] about certain psalms to read and on what day for certain desired outcomes, like good health, fortunes, court cases etc... so some do see the Bible or parts of it as an Obeah book as well Sukuna..and some in Ja would say that God is the greatest Obeahman which some could view as blasphemous.

What I am saying is this, indigenous religions while some of it might make no sense TO ME served the needs of the people. [parts of the Bible makes no sense to me as well btw] What I find disturbing about Obeah is, then and still now-a-days money, sometimes an exorbitant amount has to pass hands before the "work" can be done, and those who purport to know it used it for their personal gain..does that make any sense what I just said? & IMHO really don't know what they are doing for the simple reason that much of the tradition has died due to cultural and other reasons, so it is not in pure form...and to keep things in balance the RC church had been accused of selling penance and indulgences as well..NO??

Let me hasten to add that the piece mentioned Haiti and the priest and the "candles." Also note that although they tried to eliminate the practice the Haitians under pain of death held on to Voodoo, and even incorporated RC rites in some of their practices...and yes Sukuna, some of these rites could have been copied by the Church, who REALLY knows? We just need the facts rather than accounts disseminated to satify personal agendas. ..and let me throw this in, this is why I disagreed that religion can be imposed, considering that many have held on to their indigenous religions throughout the ages; and belief is voluntary.

In closing with that question being asked we believe what we believe or NOT believe, primarily because of our cultural upbringing, culture playing a significant role in the process.

Oono walk good.

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[Guest]

Re: What is Obeah?

Like JD and many others, the only thing I knew about Obeah is "Doan eat anyting from so-and-so, she do obeah."

Although some still consider Obeah to be demonic, we must not forget that Obeah played a central role in slave rebellions and resistance to the masters. This was certainly the main reason the British tried so hard and failed to repress Obeah, more than some fear of dark magic. The severity of the laws that were passed are a testament to the *true* power of Obeah.

Let us not forget Boukman, the Jamaican Obeah man who was sold to Haiti and organized the very first rebellion in Saint-Domingue. It was his inspiration that led the people to overthrow the French forces and create Haiti, the first black republic in modern history. To give you an idea of how fiercely the French must have fought to keep this jewel, 18th century Saint-Domingue was the richest colony in the New World producing over 1/7th of France's wealth. At the same time, France was the most powerful military force in the world and helped the 13 colonies defeat the British. The Haitians I know have not forgotten Boukman and he is definitely not thought to be demonic.

Where would we be without Obeah? Maybe by turning our collective back on Obeah and our rich African heritage, we have allowed the IMF and other Western institutions to put the chains back on us...

[mangoskin]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by JesusDread:

[/qb]

All mi ex-wife go obeahman regularly fi me, LOL


[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]

sorry to hear you marriage collapse..she wasnt a believer?

[britisha]

Re: What is Obeah?

The severity of the laws that were passed are a testament to the *true* power of Obeah.

So in essence are you saying that you believe that Obeah has *true* power and from that I can gather that you DO know what it is?

Let us not forget Boukman, the Jamaican Obeah man who was sold to Haiti and organized the very first rebellion in Saint-Domingue..."

...and Obeah as WE know or heard about it has the power to ward off ANY evil or danger; so if Boukman was an Obeahman he would have seen it coming, unless of course, the spirits allowed this for the salvation of the other slaves.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Carry on and walk good.

[JesusDread]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by mangoskin:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:

[/qb]

All mi ex-wife go obeahman regularly fi me, LOL


[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [/QB]

sorry to hear you marriage collapse..she wasnt a believer? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Is a generational thing, muma do obeah, granny do obeah, right dung de line. She descend from some Haitian whe did run wey coma Jamaica.

Mi neva know till mi did in too deep. Dat a lang time ago anyway, ova 13 years since m drop dat.

I am now married to a born again Christian, very virtuos and quite sane. Thank you Jesus!

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[JesusDread]

Re: What is Obeah?

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:
[qb] Britisha,

I think that Obeah, and Wicca, a form of Paganism, have much in common. I don't think it is a coincidence that there is a comparison to Wicca, whether by white, green, purple people. I think that ancient religions of most continents - i.e. Africa, Asia, Europe, share many common beliefs and practices. Consider Obeah, Wicca, Celtic Paganism, and Native American Shaminism as examples. All (and others) are what may be described as earth-based, and share appreciations for energies, guides in various forms, intuition(by many names), and the will of humans (a form of energy). Thoughts are energy and energy cannot be destroyed. The parallels in world religions and beliefs go on and on. Frankly, I don't understand how so much religious prejudice can exist, if one just examines them, rather than the differences between them (and I am a Novice, at best). Peace and bright blessings. [/qb]

The common denominator is Satan. They are all demonic cults that belong to the devil.

Sorry if I stepped on any toes. Please spare me the evil eye, I have enough crosses a follow me. LOL, If a ded tudeh..wooooeeey

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]