Divorce & Remarriage

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] So what conclusion has the Holy Spirit "revealed" revealed on this matter? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Yes, I can see every man/woman being persuaded differently on a very important and delicate subject from I suspect, one Holy Ghost. Are those who turn out to have guessed wrong onboard for hell? [/qb]

Although sin is sin, I have a very hard time believing that God would doom a person to hell for a double marriage. Imagine a person living an exemplary life, obeying God to the best of their knowledge, but they have been married twice. I just don't see it. But then only God can judge. ???

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]It is not that God is being cruel to withhold some back from marriage. [/qb]

You are very correct on that statement. God is not being cruel. Mankind is. Ever stopped and wondered what was happening at the time when Jesus responded to these MEN?

Jewish Attitude Toward Divorce

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]Okay not to bust your bubble but I have a problem with the author's usage of the KJV to express this point. So I looked at the NIV which is an internationally accepted complete translation of the original writings and here is what it says.[/qb]

Did you bust my bubble or not? Can't figure that one out. In any case, relax...no need to bust or prick bubbles around here. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

As per Strong's Hebrew & Greek dictionaries the word loosed in this passage refers to divorced. Verse 28 is a continuation of 27 by the use of the word But.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; [/qb]

Did you see the NIV? Now I would love to see the same scripture keyed to the NIV version in the concordance. I guess mutty has a point afterall.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Hmmmm.

I'm sitting here thinking about this thread and I can't help but wonder again what are divorced Christian women to do.

If some divorced Christian men and single Christian men will not consider marrying a divorced Christian woman pray tell who do the divorced Christian women marry?

I honestly do not believe that it is God's desire to see a divorced Christian woman remain unmarried.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Well I believe that if the word of God still holds true then the woman who truly desires to find a mate should put Phil. 4:6 into practice and then go backward to the Book of Esther there to find some very valuable advice on preparing for a new husband.....me gawn!

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

If one wants to see why there are some 4,000 + sects, groups, congregations within Christianity not including the sometimes wacko fringe groups, here is a case study. Is there disagreement because people want to do or believe what they want to believe OR because the sciptures seem to be saying two things - in one place there is NO allowance yet in another there seems to be a loophole? Are people applying common sense and appealing to "understanding" or should they accept the strict stance of Jesus?

MsGoody I hear what you say, but if remarrying while your former spouse is still alive, does this not, as per the Bible, constitute adultery so no matter how upstanding the person is and how sincere they are in other departments of their lives and to God, aren't they still barred from the kingdom?

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Well I believe that if the word of God still holds true then the woman who truly desires to find a mate should put Phil. 4:6 into practice and then go backward to the Book of Esther there to find some very valuable advice on preparing for a new husband.....me gawn! [/qb]

I agree. Bye.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

In closing:

Believers are not necessarily sinning when they divorce a spouse who through sexual sin has shattered the exclusive commitment of the marriage covenant. In fact, a woman who is married to a physically abusive husband may not be sinning when, with the encouragement of her spiritual counselors, she seeks divorce action--even if her husband is not guilty of sexual immorality. If such a wife has given careful consideration to the name and reputation of Christ, if she has sought to fulfill the requirements of love, and if she has followed the biblical procedures for confronting a sinning brother (Mt. 18:15-17), then she may have reason to seek divorce action against someone who is no longer being treated by the church as a brother.

Divorce is often a terrible evil, but in some situations it represents a wise and loving course of action. Ezra insisted that Israelite men put away their pagan wives and children (Ezra 10:10-19). God Himself divorced the northern tribes of Israel (Jer. 3:8). He took such action only after enduring their prolonged spiritual unfaithfulness which He compared to sexual unfaithfulness.

Since divorce is not always wrong, it is not like lying, stealing, coveting, or sexual immorality. These other actions are always wrong. God can never approve of them. But divorce is not always a sin. It is always caused by sin, but is not an act of disobedience when permitted by God ..... http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0806/point3.html

Knowing what many people are facing in difficult marriages and having been there myself, again I seriously doubt that it is God's intention for them to stay. The Christian woman who I had to take into my home because her husband beat the crap out of her and used a TV to break her arm would love to read what some women have written here. The woman whose face was mashed up and disfigured would also love to read this thread. The woman whose husband gave her several sexual transmitted diseases would also love to read it. The woman who stopped going to church because she was so badly mentally abused would also love to see this. The woman whose husband uses the paycheque to get drunk and take drugs instead of paying the mortgage and the bills would also like to read this thread.

Show me in the Bible where it states that a woman should stay and suffer in a marriage and I will be happy to jump on this band wagon.

Mi gawn tuh....Moderators feel free to lock this.

[Lala]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] In closing:

Knowing what many people are facing in difficult marriages and having been there myself, again I seriously doubt that it is God's intention for them to stay. The Christian woman who I had to take into my home because her husband beat the crap out of her and used a TV to break her arm would love to read what some women have written here. The woman whose face was mashed up and disfigured would also love to read this thread. The woman whose husband gave her several sexual transmitted diseases would also love to read it. The woman who stopped going to church because she was so badly mentally abused would also love to see this. The woman whose husband uses the paycheque to get drunk and take drugs instead of paying the mortgage and the bills would also like to read this thread.

Show me in the Bible where it states that a woman should stay and suffer in a marriage and I will be happy to jump on this band wagon.

Mi gawn tuh....Moderators feel free to lock this. [/qb]

Yu know mi wasn't going to seh anyting in dis poas ..but mi haffi log on fi say amen here.

Should women who have had the awful experiences described by Compry be left to a life without a mate/companion because some coward chose to abuse them as oppose to sleep with another woman?..thus meeting the only biblical criteria for divorce and remarriage.

Mi tank God him nat like man!!

[Ivory]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Lala:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] In closing:

Knowing what many people are facing in difficult marriages and having been there myself, again I seriously doubt that it is God's intention for them to stay. The Christian woman who I had to take into my home because her husband beat the crap out of her and used a TV to break her arm would love to read what some women have written here. The woman whose face was mashed up and disfigured would also love to read this thread. The woman whose husband gave her several sexual transmitted diseases would also love to read it. The woman who stopped going to church because she was so badly mentally abused would also love to see this. The woman whose husband uses the paycheque to get drunk and take drugs instead of paying the mortgage and the bills would also like to read this thread.

Show me in the Bible where it states that a woman should stay and suffer in a marriage and I will be happy to jump on this band wagon.

Mi gawn tuh....Moderators feel free to lock this. [/qb]

Yu know mi wasn't going to seh anyting in dis poas ..but mi haffi log on fi say amen here.

Should women who have had the awful experiences described by Compry be left to a life without a mate/companion because some coward chose to abuse them as oppose to sleep with another woman?..thus meeting the only biblical criteria for divorce and remarriage.

Mi tank God him nat like man!! [/qb]

I 3rd this one here to! Just my 1 cent in this post.

just remember that penny goes a long way

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] If one wants to see why there are some 4,000 + sects, groups, congregations within Christianity not including the sometimes wacko fringe groups, here is a case study. Is there disagreement because people want to do or believe what they want to believe OR because the sciptures seem to be saying two things - in one place there is NO allowance yet in another there seems to be a loophole? Are people applying common sense and appealing to "understanding" or should they accept the strict stance of Jesus?

MsGoody I hear what you say, but if remarrying while your former spouse is still alive, does this not, as per the Bible, constitute adultery so no matter how upstanding the person is and how sincere they are in other departments of their lives and to God, aren't they still barred from the kingdom? [/qb]

The bottom line is, God's Word will not change because we get ourselves in terrible situations. We allow ourselves to get into these horrible relationships, go to the altar with them, then we want to change all the laws because it did not work for us. Or, we want to say God's law is not fair. If I am pregnant and smoking crack, drinking, shooting up heroin and taking pills of all sorts, then my child is born with all kinds of medical issues, can I charge God with that because I can not change the condition of the child? If GOD, not man, declared that marriage was until death, who can change that.

I went to a wedding Sunday and listened closely to the vows. The promise to love, honour, and chrerish until death. Now, it's until the divorce is final. I can almost bet, that everyone that has a justification for divorce and remarriage, are seeking to remarry. Of course, we hold up what pertains to us. But we cannot change the truth to benefit us. I sympathize with the whole of you, but the Word is right. It's not about man.
Remember these scriptures.

Hebrews 13:4
MARRIAGE IS HONOURABLE IN ALL AND THE BED UNDEFILED: BUT WHOREMONGERS AND ADULTERERS GOD WILL JUDGE.
(See it there Mutty?)

I Corinthians 6:9-10
KNOW YE NOT THAT THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? BE NOT DECEIVED: NEITHER FORNICATORS, NOR IDOLATERS, NOR ADULTERERS, NOR EFFEMINATE, NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND,
NOR THIEVES, NOR COVETOUS, NOR DRUNKARDS, NOR REVILERS, NOR EXTORTIONERS, SHALL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

This has no bearings on any opinion of man. God never said anyone had to stay in an abusive relationship, Compry. I don't think anybody in here said so either. But being in an abusive or troubled marriage, is not justification for divorce and remarriage either. That is also not included in the scriptures. From a personal note, my mother was a good Christian woman for years. She had 7 children for my Father. But he cheated on her with other women. He once had a motorcycle accident while riding with a teenage girlfriend. She broke her arm and he had most of the skin peeled off of his backside. Even though he was the apple of my eye and vice versa, it served him right. But guess who took care of that crusty backside?! She left him for 2 weeks and our Pastor told her to go back to her husband and let God deal with him. So we went back. In less than a year, she was a widow. In 3 years, she married a wonderful Minister, they had 6 children and recently celebrated their 21st anniversary. She did not pray for God to kill my father. But God removed him and made way for a man who would love and honor her and only her. I desire a marriage like theirs. God knows what we need.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]I can almost bet, that everyone that has a justification for divorce and remarriage, are seeking to remarry.[/qb]

You may want to change that to some instead of everyone as judging from some of the folks who have posted here, your statement is incorrect.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]I can almost bet, that everyone that has a justification for divorce and remarriage, are seeking to remarry.[/qb]

You may want to change that to some instead of everyone as judging from some of the folks who have posted here, your statement is incorrect. [/qb]

True. I phrased that wrongly. I meant to imply, only an implication, that the ones who wish to remarry are the ones seeking the justification. Or have already remarried after dissolving their first marriage.

Seldom will you find a never married person or one happily in their first marriage, staunchly defending the right to divorce and remarry. Although, when I decided to divorce, I did not yet have all the evidence that my husband had been previously married before, but I knew he had. Nothing was going to stop me from filing from divorce, but I was constantly reminded that I could not remarry. I never entertained finding a loophole to justify me remarrying even though I knew my marriage was straight from the pits of hell. I made the choice to marry, not God. My Granny used to repeat her father, "If you make your bed hard, you alone have to lie in it". True.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Question for you MsGoody and please answer honestly.

If your husband was not married before, yet he treated you like crap for several years; beat you every chance he got; ridiculed you; never worked yet he expected you to work to cover the bills; made fun of your religion and even try to prevent you from going to church, would you still be married?

Edited to add: You also begged him year after year to seek secular or counselling in the church yet he refused...would you still be married?

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

In or out of Christianity, it was always my belief that if any spouse is enduring constant grief in which there is no reconciliation it would make total common sense to get the hell out of hell!

I knew a girl at my last job who came home and met her husband, a deacon in the church and very involved in the church, lying on top of their 4-yr old daughter. I'm suprised she let him live. Was she supposed to stay in that mess ESPECIALLY considering she married him before both became Chrsitians? I would not give a flying fart what God has to say. Until he comes down and lives in such a hell of a relationship, he can keep his opinion to himself. If we have a whole Testament of him having headaches dealing with a wayward people whom he could not keep under control no matter what he threw at them, how much better can we be in dealing with other flawed humans.

The problem here is that MsGoody is right in that Jesus gives NO allowance for divorce other than adultery yet common sense (which Compry is appealing to) appeals to the fact that no one in their right mind should stick around in relationships that involves extreme abusives, mentally or physically. Which one wins. God or your common sense? Come to think of it, it's that strict adherence to the Bible that helped to placed quite a bit of women 6 feet under or in some mental institution.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] Question for you MsGoody and please answer honestly.

If your husband was not married before, yet he treated you like crap for several years; beat you every chance he got; ridiculed you; never worked yet he expected you to work to cover the bills; made fun of your religion and even try to prevent you from going to church, would you still be married?

Edited to add: You also begged him year after year to seek secular or counselling in the church yet he refused...would you still be married? [/qb]

Woah, Compry girl! That's a whole lot there!
Kinda' hard to answer too because I never experienced ANY of that. Especially seeing I would never find myself in that situation for YEARS. I pity a woman who would.

But, if I had went through that, I would not have been married, no. There is no way on earth I would remain in a marriage like that. Nor should any woman or man. Men are abused and used too you know. I would not recommend anyone stay in a marriage that has those components. I believe that all efforts should be made to save a marriage. Be it counselling or self help. But when there is violence and/or financial abuse, there is nothing left to salvage.

The question then becomes, would I remarry again if I left? I would not be free to remarry because my first husband is not dead. If I were to remarry, I would be living in adultery, regardless of my personal reasons why I left the marriage. My misfortune does not change the Laws of God.

My husband paid all of our living expenses. I did not work until a case came up for me. I bought the groceries and paid my bills only. I kept up the house. We went to church together every Saturday and to his former church on some Sunday's, Wednesday/Saturday nights. Never prevented me from going to church alone. He did not beat me. He tried to be violent and I called the Police. That cured him. We loved to travel and did. He once drove us from Atlanta to Albuquerque, New Mexico to see one of my 93 year old former clients. He kept up the car and the yard. He wrote me beautiful poems. Opened the car door for me. Took me to nice restaurants. Etc. Etc.

BUT.. on the flip side...

He was insanely jealous. Insecure. Paranoid. Verbally abusive. Emotionally abusive. After he paid all the bills, all money left over was "my money". If I needed money, "Go get a job!", was the response. He cursed me out for the least thing. He deprived me of my conjugal rights due to his dysfunctions. Yet, he called me a "mule" because I did not have children out of wedlock and despite his inability to impregnate me. He would talk bad about me to his friends, his daughter and his ex and her husband. He hid his identity from me along with other things not worth mentioning. He would say all manner of cruel things when he was angry and then blame me for it. His entire life was a facade. AND, he married me full well knowing that I could not marry a divorced man and he hid the fact that he was a divorcee'.

I did a good share of damage as well. I was not used to turning the other cheek everytime. I reacted to his actions badly at times. I said mean things back to him. I made him feel less than a man about his sexual dysfunctions. It was my way of fighting back when he called me names, especially a mule. I despised him for depriving me of a healthy sex life and the children I wanted. I despised him for entering into a marriage that was full of lies and secrets.

But he did not drag me kicking and screaming. I married him and I had to pay for my mistake as well. Knowing that I am free from the law, makes all 4 years of the hell I went through, seem like I've paid my dues for being disobedient. God has granted me a 2nd chance to get it right this time and I am thankful that I got it without a loophole. I feel sorry for other people who are in horrible marriage situations and feel like they are trapped by the no remarriage law, but so it goes. We reap what we sow. We have to be careful of the choices we make in life and consider the consequences. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]ray:
MG2S