The Book of Job...

[Diplomat]

Has anyone here read it? Traditional interpretation often suggests that Job was quite docile in the 'divine wager', just simply accepting of his testings while exercising patience on/with God. Having re-read this book of the Bible recently, I take issue with that picture of Job. If you have read the book, what are you thoughts?

[Guest]

Re: The Book of Job...

Poh Job. If he is was anything like me with two busted up knees in the height of my fitness high [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Anyway Job was miserable and besides himself and he was not docile he just couldn't figure out what he had done to deserve God's wrath...


why me what have I done...didn't I keep all the new moons and the sabbaths, paid my tithes and give to the poor. Did I ever flinch from sharing my faith?....curs-ed are these two knees, curse the day I was born with them

[Guest]

Re: The Book of Job...

[evanovitch]

Re: The Book of Job...

initial reaction is 'how did he take all that so patiently'...his wife's advice echoed strongly as the way to have gone....

however, when u realise that an integral part of ur journey to God is that of total submission , u appreciate his behaviour...

a precursor of that statement of Jesus 'not My will but Thy will be done ' when faced with that ultimate test, so u see the continuing red thread of redemption which runs through the Bible ...

it all comes together and makes the teachings of CHrist not just something out of left field so to speak...u know, the Way was always there for those who 'communed' with God, so to speak.

additionally, in keeping with 'I must decrease so He will increase', u appreciate Job's faith ....'things unseen' indeed versus the tangible...

Job is like Abraham...setting out blindly ...giving up much for just a promise....
but oh wat an example in the TRUE riches that submission to God brings....if we believe that indeed we r made to praise God, then Job, is an example to emulate....

he praised God in everyway that u can think...from his self-denial, sacrifice, submission and vocal praise

[Guest]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Has anyone here read it? Traditional interpretation often suggests that Job was quite docile in the 'divine wager', just simply accepting of his testings while exercising patience on/with God. Having re-read this book of the Bible recently, I take issue with that picture of Job. If you have read the book, what are you thoughts? [/qb]

Job was not patient with God. Job considered himself a righteous man and in the midst of being righteous he was badly tested. While job did not curse God or turned away from his faith, he failed to understand who God was. God Himself had to remind Job of exactly who He was.

Will elaborate more at another time

[Diplomat]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
Job was not patient with God. Job considered himself a righteous man and in the midst of being righteous he was badly tested. While job did not curse God or turned away from his faith, he failed to understand who God was. God Himself had to remind Job of exactly who He was.

I agree with you. Basically I am of the impression that Job just about demanded an explanation from God as to the reasons for his sufferings given, as God Himself stated, he (Job) was an upright man who feared the Lord and just about did everything he was supposed to do. I do not believe that God answered Job either, but rather rebuffed him for even daring to question His ways. IMHO, I think Job felt God was unfair, and given all he went through, he certainly was entitled to that feeling.

[Mutty]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
Job was not patient with God. Job considered himself a righteous man and in the midst of being righteous he was badly tested. While job did not curse God or turned away from his faith, he failed to understand who God was. God Himself had to remind Job of exactly who He was.

I agree with you. Basically I am of the impression that Job just about demanded an explanation from God as to the reasons for his sufferings given, as God Himself stated, he (Job) was an upright man who feared the Lord and just about did everything he was supposed to do. I do not believe that God answered Job either, but rather rebuffed him for even daring to question His ways. IMHO, I think Job felt God was unfair, and given all he went through, he certainly was entitled to that feeling. [/qb]

This is really an interesting observation CEW. I feel it is a real honest way of looking at it because when you read the story, how else can you see it?

[Diplomat]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
This is really an interesting observation CEW. I feel it is a real honest way of looking at it because when you read the story, how else can you see it?

There really isn't any other way if one understands the entire story. Putting a spin on it to make an angel out of Job is doing the poor guy a disservice and robs him of his humanity. It is one of those instances where God actions and His words didn't quite add up and Job challenged what he perceived to be the inconsistency. At the risk of sounding blasphemous, I would suggest that Job's reaction took God by surprise, just as God's actions caught Job off-guard.

[Guest]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]IMHO, I think Job felt God was unfair, and given all he went through, he certainly was entitled to that feeling. [/qb]

...and rightly so. The man was "blameless and upright, fears God and shuns evil". What did he do to deserve all that was brought upon him? Touched on it a bit...Job was full of himself and had to be brought to repentance.

It's not about us, never has been and never will be. There is none righteous.

[Mutty]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
This is really an interesting observation CEW. I feel it is a real honest way of looking at it because when you read the story, how else can you see it?

There really isn't any other way if one understands the entire story. Putting a spin on it to make an angel out of Job is doing the poor guy a disservice and robs him of his humanity. It is one of those instances where God actions and His words didn't quite add up and Job challenged what he perceived to be the inconsistency. At the risk of sounding blasphemous, I would suggest that Job's reaction took God by surprise, just as God's actions caught Job off-guard. [/qb]

This was one of those inescapbale things I came away with from the book of Job, but it was so drilled into my head from my own pastors to popular ministers on the radio and TV that Job was a passive participant in this whole story. The highlight was always in Job's refusal to curse God and remain faithful while little focus was placed on the apparent frustration and anger in some of his questions.

To be honest, his reaction is strictly human to me. I can respect and appreciate that because it would show all of us that we are no different from him and he no different from any of us. If it hurts - it hurts. If it makes no sense - it makes no sense. If it's frustrating - it's frustrating. To try to fool ourselves into acting as though life does not stink sometimes for no apparent reason is really to fool ourselves for real.

[Mutty]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
Touched on it a bit...Job was full of himself and had to be brought to repentance.

Are you saying Job somehow brought this upon himself? Where are we given the impression Job was full of himself??? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
Touched on it a bit...Job was full of himself and had to be brought to repentance.

Are you saying Job somehow brought this upon himself? Where are we given the impression Job was full of himself??? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

No Mutty, I am not saying that Job brought it upon himself. Job did nothing to deserve what happened to him however the story of Job has been taught as one of patience. While Job did not curse God, he was far from being patient. He could not understand why someone of his *stature* could be so badly afflicted and he kept on talking about his righteousness.

I can't help but wonder that maybe he didn't have to go through all that he did, had he recognized just who God was from the beginning....my own thought.

I'm tired and have been wanting to go off to bed since 10:30 p.m. I will elaborate more with scripture verses tomorrow or Sunday. Good night.

[Mutty]

Re: The Book of Job...

Well now Compry we are back to a topic I brought up before on the subject of Job. The book opens with God making a boast about Job and Satan taking him to task that Job was only serving him (God) because of his blessings. As blasphemous as it sounds, God obliged Satan and allowed him to abuse Job to prove a point (that Job was true to him DESPITE his fortunes). Nowhere in this do I see where God was trying to teach Job a lesson per se. It's not like say, the story of Nebuchadnezzar whom we are told was full of himself and THEN his abasement detailed.

Do you think you are reading more into the story than is actually there? Granted, perhaps Job learning more about God was a byproduct of his trial, but to imply that this was the reason he was tested would contradict the book's opening reason.

[DC]

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] To be honest, his reaction is strictly human to me. I can respect and appreciate that because it would show all of us that we are no different from him and he no different from any of us. If it hurts - it hurts. If it makes no sense - it makes no sense. If it's frustrating - it's frustrating. To try to fool ourselves into acting as though life does not stink sometimes for no apparent reason is really to fool ourselves for real. [/qb]

And that is as human as one gets. It is called honesty.

I know this thread is about Job but I would like to mention another person I appreciate when it comes to being totally honest-David. I do believe he was 'man after God's own heart' because he freely expressed things like "I hate them with perfect hatred" and in the consequent verse "Search me Oh Lord and know my heart".(Psa. 139) If you really look at the psalms you will see a man who explored and totally experienced the range of the human emotions-hatred, repentance/prayer, pain, anguish, praises/joy, love, fear, forgiveness, gladness etc. He was an open book with his thoughts and emotions-positive and negative-and God did not judge him for it. He ended with praises but the book was not entirely on praises.

Job was just as real in his situation-if you asked me-and God did not judge him either. Yes, he came away eventually with his faith intact but the entire book practically higlighted the man's agony in trying to piece together the supernatural with the natural.

I would say Job was being 'supernaturally' natural. He found peace in that in that balance.

[Mutty]

Re: The Book of Job...

Duly noted DC.