The Book of Job...

**Diplomat** · 09-17-2004, 03:33 AM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
Nowhere in this do I see where God was trying to teach Job a lesson per se. It's not like say, the story of Nebuchadnezzar whom we are told was full of himself and THEN his abasement detailed.

Very good point. The object of the story is not about God teaching Job anything. Job was caught in the midst of a 'divine wager' and came within an inch of his life just so God could prove His point. I get the impression that if there was an answer to Job's demand for an explanation, it would have been simply "I did it because I wanted to, and because I could." I do agree that there can be a spiritual application of maintaining one's faith in the midst of adversity, but that was just a part of the story here. I really like Job's humanity and the fact that a proper reading of the account of his life bears this out.

*****to Compry*** Do you think you are reading more into the story than is actually there? Granted, perhaps Job learning more about God was a byproduct of his trial, but to imply that this was the reason he was tested would contradict the book's opening reason.

Regarding the last comment, very much so.

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 04:01 AM

Re: The Book of Job...

Compry makes a good point even though teaching a lesson was to Job was not God's intention. But somewhere in there one cannot help but see that our percieved view of our own righteousness does not entitle us to any special standing with God.

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 10:41 AM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]...somewhere in there one cannot help but see that our percieved view of our own righteousness does not entitle us to any special standing with God. [/qb]

Exactly.

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 10:48 AM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Compry makes a good point even though teaching a lesson was to Job was not God's intention. But somewhere in there one cannot help but see that our percieved view of our own righteousness does not entitle us to any special standing with God. [/qb]

It's different with Job, no? Job's righteousness was not merely self-percieved. God himself uttered the words "there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil". Therefore even if his righteousness was self-percieved, it was justifiably so.

We also have to ask the obvious question: if being uniquely and superlatively righteous and upright doesn't entitle one to special standing, or earn any extra credit with God, then why bother?

**Mutty** · 09-17-2004, 11:29 AM

Re: The Book of Job...

The plot thickeneth.

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 12:33 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]Job was full of himself and had to be brought to repentance.

It's not about us, never has been and never will be. There is none righteous. [/qb]

I don't think it's reasonable to think that Job was full of himself. Conceit is a vice, and Job was perfect - lacking vices. There should have been no need for him to repent.

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 01:06 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by heretic:
[qb]I don't think it's reasonable to think that Job was full of himself. Conceit is a vice, and Job was perfect - lacking vices. There should have been no need for him to repent. [/qb]

Hmmmm, you may not think he was however his friends did. "Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes."

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 01:07 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by heretic:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Compry makes a good point even though teaching a lesson was to Job was not God's intention. But somewhere in there one cannot help but see that our percieved view of our own righteousness does not entitle us to any special standing with God. [/qb]

It's different with Job, no? Job's righteousness was not merely self-percieved. God himself uttered the words "there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil". Therefore even if his righteousness was self-percieved, it was justifiably so.

We also have to ask the obvious question: if being uniquely and superlatively righteous and upright doesn't entitle one to special standing, or earn any extra credit with God, then why bother? [/qb]

Excellent point (for once [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ) heretic. I got to thinking much deeper into Job's unique position and another person came to mind. Do you recognize these words - "My God my God why hast thou forsaken me?"

In the midst of my pain I cried out to God, Lord isn't losing weight and getting in shape a good thing? then why in the midst of all my painful efforts have you seen fit to inflict this bout of arthritis on me, and why now? I make mention of myself here only to illustrate a point of how we view ourselves in relationship to God. God may very well look down from heaven and say this is my servant Jedi of whom I am well pleased. But...can I see the purpose for which He has formed me clearly inside my little self? Surely Jesus knew why he would have to suffer and undergo pain, but Job didn't and neither do I, as a matter of fact neither did almost every saint that has suffered debilitating disease almost as it were a reward for faithful and dutiful service to God. But I am told that in those instances of pain what became crystal clear was the absolute nearness of God as they faced the truth and the reality of their mortality.

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 01:29 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]Hmmmm, you may not think he was however his friends did. "Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes." [/qb]

Aaaah. His friends may have thought that. However his friends were not privy to enough of the picture. Through the bible, god's word, we see more of the picture than they did -we know God's opinion of Job. God's opinion takes precedence over the opinion of the three friends.

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 01:54 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]Excellent point (for once [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ) heretic.[/qb]

Thank you very much. My ultimate aim is to make excellent points all the time just like you do.

[qb]I got to thinking much deeper into Job's unique position and another person came to mind. Do you recognize these words - "My God my God why hast thou forsaken me?"

In the midst of my pain I cried out to God, Lord isn't losing weight and getting in shape a good thing? then why in the midst of all my painful efforts have you seen fit to inflict this bout of arthritis on me, and why now? I make mention of myself here only to illustrate a point of how we view ourselves in relationship to God. God may very well look down from heaven and say this is my servant Jedi of whom I am well pleased. But...can I see the purpose for which He has formed me clearly inside my little self? Surely Jesus knew why he would have to suffer and undergo pain, but Job didn't and neither do I, as a matter of fact neither did almost every saint that has suffered debilitating disease almost as it were a reward for faithful and dutiful service to God. But I am told that in those instances of pain what became crystal clear was the absolute nearness of God as they faced the truth and the reality of their mortality. [/qb]

The comparison between Job and Jesus is noted. This comparison, however, illustrates the problems that many of us have with the story of Job. Unlike servant Jedi who cannot fathom why she suffers we know why both Jesus and Job suffer. (I'm just following your lead with the servant Jedi example) We look at Jesus and and from the big picture we conclude that his suffering was worth it. It was for the greater good - he suffered that we might be saved from our sins. We look at Job and we know that he suffers because of an apparently trivial bet between god and the devil. This is difficult to reconcile. Job did nothing wrong and he got screwed over for no good reason. What then can the rest of us who aren't perfect and upright expect?

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 02:19 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by heretic:
[qb]Aaaah. His friends may have thought that. However his friends were not privy to enough of the picture. Through the bible, god's word, we see more of the picture than they did -we know God's opinion of Job. God's opinion takes precedence over the opinion of the three friends. [/qb]

I glad you said that Heretic. Read Job 38 - 41. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 02:43 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]I glad you said that Heretic. Read Job 38 - 41. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?

You lost me. Explain please.

**Guest** · 09-17-2004, 03:05 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Job chapter 38 to chapter 41...but I'm sure you knew that.

**Mutty** · 09-17-2004, 03:12 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

I think she wants you to read CHAPTERS 38-41 Heretic, not chapter 38 verse 41. LOL!!!

**heretic** · 09-17-2004, 03:22 PM

Re: The Book of Job...

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] Job chapter 38 to chapter 41...but I'm sure you knew that. [/qb]

Aaaah. Don't mind me. My brain is fried.

The Book of Job...

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