Questions for the christians

**neutral** · 07-01-2008, 05:24 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TLC_30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

While my comment was not on topic, it was appropriate. </div></div>

ok,..if you say so.

**Shine_Eye_Girl** · 07-01-2008, 05:26 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TLC_30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

While my comment was not on topic, it was appropriate. </div></div>

ok,..if you say so.

</div></div>

I did and you quoted it too.....

**neutral** · 07-01-2008, 05:39 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I can't imagine that there isn't a heaven or hell dude cause there is. It's like saying, man, suppose I was in Jamaica, I would have been........no! Mi stop think like that cause I ain't in Jamaica and that's fact.

</div></div>

There is absolutely no proof of a heaven or a hell,....these are man made constructs,..the whole concept of "hell" lies in the assumption that its where "bad" people go after death,apart from the fact that different religions have different destinations after death for "bad" people....no one has ever come back from death to prove the existence of "hell"....likewise no one has ever proven that a "heaven" exists.

Simply because you cant imagine that there isnt a heaven or a hell isnt proof enough that they do exists.

**H_O** · 07-01-2008, 06:10 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good day heretic. Trusting all is well with you and yours.

I personally read the initial post and my first reaction was, "bait". I thought there was absolutely nothing that I could post that would be accepted as truth by the topic starter and the usual posters who show up in these types of thread.

I see folks in here speaking on behalf of Christians and drawing their own conclusions. Compry cannot speak on behalf of any other Christian primarily because it is a fact that we all come to Christ at different stages in our lives and for different reasons. Personally I was born into the church...I've said this here several times. Meaning, my aunt Rose (rest in peace) brought me to church ever since I was a baby and so my going to church was not because of the hell, fire and brimstone preaching. I grew up in the church and I honestly liked being in the church.

I migrated to Canada in my early teens to parents who were not churchgoers. I felt a major void and my mom seeing that I needed to go to church not out of fear but out of genuine desire, allowed me to visit my aunt's church. I was a Baptist in Jamaica so she thought it fitting to send me to another Baptist Church. I later found another church and was baptized by age 16.

I can truly tell you that a fear of hell or a need to go to heaven was never a driving factor for me. I had a pure love for the church. THEN....as I continued to mature physically and spiritually, after a very rough period in my life, I discovered that I needed to move to the next level. I needed to develop a relationship with God.

I will forever be grateful, despite how life turned out, to a former best friend who started me on the road to developing that relationship. Still after all these years, my desire to be the best I can be, to continue growing and being who He (God) wants me to be in Kingdom, has not faded. This desire is out of love...nothing else.

There is something amazing about having the love of the Christian God in your heart. I don't serve Him out of fear. I do it out of love for Him and His people. The Bible says in John 3:16-17, paraphrasing...For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son that whosoever (anyone) who believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him would be saved.

It really is seeing the glass as half full or half empty...am I going to study to get my degree so I can live a prosperous life now? Have the education and knowledge to do the things I need to do now or am I just going to waste several years of study to end up with a degree? Kinda silly if the latter is chosen isn't it? Look at the possibilities and perks that comes with having the knowledge gained to get that degree.

What is my point after this long drawn out thing? While some may have chosen to be Christians because of the end results, that's not right. Personally, I didn't. I really do love the life that I chose to live.

God bless. </div></div>see. NO ONE CAN EVER get a straight, direct answer from a bible thumper without having them recite some sort of false doctrine or scripture. NEVER FAILS. John 3:6.. blah blah blah...

**H_O** · 07-01-2008, 06:14 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I can't imagine that there isn't a heaven or hell dude cause there is. It's like saying, man, suppose I was in Jamaica, I would have been........no! Mi stop think like that cause I ain't in Jamaica and that's fact.

</div></div>

There is absolutely no proof of a heaven or a hell,....these are man made constructs,..the whole concept of "hell" lies in the assumption that its where "bad" people go after death,apart from the fact that different religions have different destinations after death for "bad" people....no one has ever come back from death to prove the existence of "hell"....likewise no one has ever proven that a "heaven" exists.

Simply because you cant imagine that there isnt a heaven or a hell isnt proof enough that they do exists.

</div></div> like i said before, its the same thing as believing in the tooth fairy.
remember, the religious institution is the largest, tax free buisness. for centuries now, these divine institutions have spoon fed people into this belief of a heaven and hell. it is the the same as the light side and the dark side

**acceptedtoday** · 07-01-2008, 10:58 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay so that's like asking, if I really wasn't gonna get a degree after the 120 some odd credits, would I even bother going to school?</div></div>This is a perfectly reasonable question. I'd wager most people would not bother with school where it not for the degree at the end of the line and the associated potential for economic advancement.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thing here is that, the law of sowing and reaping whether Biblical or not applies to everything. It's as universal as you can get. So, even though your question is valid, it's....what's the word? Let's just say this, what you sow, you gwine reap.</div></div>Not a ting go like dis.

Look around you, the wicked prosper and reap success all the time. The righteous reap suffering all the time. A man just took on a job to clean up the JUTC for $1 in annual pay - look how well that turned out for him and his family. You do not always reap what you sow in this life. It sucks, but that's reality of it. The Biblical approach to resolving this is to promise that you will 'eventually' reap what you sow, if not in this life, then in the next. This promise is particularly attractive to the weak, poor, downtrodden and uneducated (and probably why they are religious in greater than average percentages).

That's the basis of Newtribun's question: If you take that away would christians still be christians.

What's interesting to me is not that people are bribed or threatened into doing things (this is, after all, human nature), but that so many are so uncomfortable with admitting "i'm in this church business because of what I can get out of it".
</div></div>

So what I think you should do is leff people alone who think and believe that they believe. Even the Bible talks about leaving someone alone if an argument develops about Christ and Christianity. Leff wi alone mek we gwan den nuh? A coulda wah suh? When Jesus comes back we will all see what will happen. Dude, no stress yuself. It's all good.

The Bible says that Jesus Death to the Jews didn't mek sense, and to the Greek was just pure bologna (balony). So hey, dat nuh change de fact seh Him did dead and raise? Leff de Christian dem mek dem believe weh dem believe men. Mi nuh run unu dung erday a try persuade unu. </div></div>

To H.O and Heretic and Newtral Challenge
There is scripture for this
<span style="color: #000099">If in this life only we have hope we are of men most miserable.
Best we eat sleep and be merry for tommorrow we die.</span>

I work for money.

It may seem for some crude to admit this but it matters not how much I love my job or how much satisfaction I feel in a job well done. Cut my pay and I will start looking for better.

Jesus tells the story of the vineyard where many were invited in at different times of the day and all recieved a penny.

We know this is a promise of salvation. Its not the first mile but the last that counts.

Works here are counted as dross to God we don't work for salvation we don't deserve salvation we work because we have been given grace as a free gift from God even when we did'nt believe.

So none of us really can claim eternal life by works we cannot earn it.
Its a free gift we recieve when we believe God.

There's no <span style="font-style: italic">quid pro quo</span> with God he knows who is just working for a reward without faith. He sees the wolves in sheep clothing, the tares among the wheat the doubters and the scoffers.

The fallacy here is that you can work your way into heaven. That was heaven not a promised reward, many would not be christian.

Thats not true hope.
True hope is because of the love of God shed in our hearts through Jesus Christ a hope that is not in vain.

What Newtral and Heretic are really describing is VANITY.

Solomon wrote an entire book around VANITY the desire to use things and persuits to find satisfaction and right standing with God.

He concluded after many failed workabouts
<span style="color: #000099">fear God and keep his commandments for this is the whole purpose of man.</span>

Many will say in that day I preached in your name recieved monies in your name healed in your name and Jesus will say I never knew you.

Scarcely will the righteous man make it into heaven so where will the unbelievers stand.

There is no quid pro quo you can't earn it it have already been paid for, paid in blood.

We through faith who believe in the promises are covered in that blood which blots out our transgressions. We don't earn heaven we walk in under the blood. God can't accept me into his holy presence only the Jesus in me and over me can stand in the presence of a holy God.

We live in fear yes, fear of what sin consequences is exposed to the presence of a Holy God.

**WorshipRaiser** · 07-02-2008, 01:30 AM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I can't imagine that there isn't a heaven or hell dude cause there is. It's like saying, man, suppose I was in Jamaica, I would have been........no! Mi stop think like that cause I ain't in Jamaica and that's fact.

</div></div>

There is absolutely no proof of a heaven or a hell,....these are man made constructs,..the whole concept of "hell" lies in the assumption that its where "bad" people go after death,apart from the fact that different religions have different destinations after death for "bad" people....no one has ever come back from death to prove the existence of "hell"....likewise no one has ever proven that a "heaven" exists.

Simply because you cant imagine that there isnt a heaven or a hell isnt proof enough that they do exists.

</div></div>

Bredren, hear de setup. Either you believe or you don't. I happen to believe okay? I can't do a thing about your disbelief and there's nothing you can do about mine. I'm not gonna try to persuade you because you believe what you do. Therefore, nothing you say my friend can dissuade me from Christ. Alright. A done mi done yahso. Bless Up

**WorshipRaiser** · 07-02-2008, 01:33 AM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by PDB_Again

The primary reason for accepting the Lord into my life was to avoid hell. But as I learned and developed a deeper relationship with Him, I realized that there was more to it than that. Instead of approaching it, and paying attention to what I SHOULDN'T or COULDN'T do, I focus on what I SHOULD and what I CAN.</div></div>That's all well and good, but it's not what I asked. What I asked was "If there were no threat of hell or promise of eternal life or promise earthly rewards, would you still follow the principles of the Bible and do what god (supposedly) wants you to do?". It's a pretty straightforward question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why are you assuming that I deliberately ignored the second half a de question? Never assume my friend - assumptions are based on neither truth nor fact. I shall go up a top and look for the second part a de question. </div></div>You are assuming that I assumed. I merely made an observation and asked a question based on that observation. </div></div>

I can't imagine that there isn't a heaven or hell dude cause there is. It's like saying, man, suppose I was in Jamaica, I would have been........no! Mi stop think like that cause I ain't in Jamaica and that's fact.

</div></div>So your brain can't handle hypotheticals. Most curious.

U nuh ha nuttn fi do nuh true? U funny yow. Peace.

**neutral** · 07-02-2008, 07:19 AM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PDB_Again</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Bredren, hear de setup. Either you believe or you don't. I happen to believe okay? I can't do a thing about your disbelief and there's nothing you can do about mine. I'm not gonna try to persuade you because you believe what you do. Therefore, nothing you say my friend can dissuade me from Christ. Alright. A done mi done yahso. Bless Up </div></div>

There is nothing in my response that indicated that I wish to dissuade you from "christ",......indeed how can I dissuade you from something I believe to be non existent.

You obviously are somehow convinced you are right in what you believe in and are entrenched in that belief,likewise I too know I am right in what I do not believe in and will remain entrenched in not believing in a doctrine that was forced upon black people through slavery and subsequently brainwashed down through generations,,...its not about persuasion,...its a discussion about beliefs,...you are not under any obligation to participate in the discussion my friend,...the topic heading said "questions for the christians",..not everyone that claim that they "believe" is a christian

**neutral** · 07-02-2008, 07:39 AM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: accepted2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There's no <span style="font-style: italic">quid pro quo</span> with God he knows who is just working for a reward without faith. He sees the wolves in sheep clothing, the tares among the wheat the doubters and the scoffers.

The fallacy here is that you can work your way into heaven. That was heaven not a promised reward, many would not be christian.

</div></div>

Why is the whole concept of the christian religion places so much emphasis on "faith"....faith in what exactly,are you saying one can live a pious life all their life,doing charitable works,being a good person,..but all that can mean nothing if one has a lack of faith,...if god really exists why is it so important to him that people believe that he exists,..wouldnt it be obvious as to remove all doubt.

**Mutty** · 07-02-2008, 10:37 AM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if god really exists why is it so important to him that people believe that he exists,..wouldnt it be obvious as to remove all doubt. </div></div>

That would make too much damn sense and make it just too easy. People want to feel "special," you see. They've got it and your dumb [censored] don't.

**Compry** · 07-02-2008, 01:27 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I personally read the initial post and my first reaction was, "bait". </div></div>

Who me!..bait !...?

No cus compray,...yu got me wrong,....Thanks for your response,can you explain this bit to me...

"<span style="font-weight: bold"> For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son that whosoever (anyone) who believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him would be saved.</span>"

Somewhere in there is a contradiction....he sent his son into the world that the world through him would be saved,(saved from what cus comp),....and yet it also imply that only those who believe in him will escape being perished.

So would you say in effect he didnt send his son to save the world,..he sent him to save only those who believed that he existed,...so how can someone be penalised for not believing something........its like a magician sending his assistant in the audience to kill all who doesnt believe in the illusion,..but spare those who did,...while telling them all he`s there to "save" them....you get what I`m getting at compray.
</div></div>

Newt, I would have to go into the being born in sin and so forth and you don't believe in any of that stuff so I have made the decision not to waste your time.

**Compry** · 07-02-2008, 01:28 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Morning, Compry. We are well. You? </div></div>

I am wonderful. Good to see your moniker around the place.

Take it easy.

**neutral** · 07-02-2008, 04:27 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Newtriment</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I personally read the initial post and my first reaction was, "bait". </div></div>

Who me!..bait !...?

No cus compray,...yu got me wrong,....Thanks for your response,can you explain this bit to me...

"<span style="font-weight: bold"> For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son that whosoever (anyone) who believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him would be saved.</span>"

Somewhere in there is a contradiction....he sent his son into the world that the world through him would be saved,(saved from what cus comp),....and yet it also imply that only those who believe in him will escape being perished.

So would you say in effect he didnt send his son to save the world,..he sent him to save only those who believed that he existed,...so how can someone be penalised for not believing something........its like a magician sending his assistant in the audience to kill all who doesnt believe in the illusion,..but spare those who did,...while telling them all he`s there to "save" them....you get what I`m getting at compray.
</div></div>

Newt, I would have to go into the being born in sin and so forth and you don't believe in any of that stuff so I have made the decision not to waste your time. </div></div>

Fair enough !

**acceptedtoday** · 07-02-2008, 09:59 PM

Re: Questions for the christians

Ah but Newtral

Faith is no exclusive to christians, we all must exercise faith in this world.

Lets take the stock market.
Is it all about informed investors the why are those halycon houses of investment thethering on the brink of bankrupcy or hostile takeovers.

The stock market is currently in the throes of emotional surges, an advancing bull market is as much about faith as it is about earnings reports. The shocks to the market is a measure of trust at that moment. Those who risk to go against the current either are big winners or suffer loss.
You can make money in all markets, its a lot about faith over doubt.
Like now is a time to make a killing in the US real estate market but how many are buying?

Lets take marriage, that too is a leap of faith, times changes people what you see today is no indication of whats promised tommorrow but how many trust to their ability to make sound judgement only to regret those sureties later.

We take a leap of faith each time we merge into an express way or board an airline or walk into a mall.

Our lives are based on making faith judgements.

We read in Isiaih of Nahmon a captain of the Guard who came to the prophet to cure his leprosy.

The prophet would not even come out of the tent he just told the Kings Captain Go Wash.

The man felt dissed he was upset being dismissed so easily by the prophet.

His gaurd said to him if the prophet had asked you some thing hard to do (like climb Everest...IMO) you would have done it why not just do the simple thing, he went to Jordan and came up clean like a baby.

Now if God had made salvation something difficult like finding a 200 carat diamond many would try to earn it.

He took it out of our hands, he said believe that all this did not spring out of nowhere, look around and see if creation itself dosen't show you there's a creator.

Its like the parable of the sower.

The same seed with the same potential was given to everyone, some heard it suk teet and moved on. Some shoot the messenger bringing the seed.
Some critisized him for only bringing seed what about fertilizer and pesticides.
Some just tek it and soak it up and help share out the seed to others.

I don't know why faith chooses some and not others I believe some don't make themselves accesible some too busy and some just stubborn.

But the same grace extended to CEW to COMPRAY to PDB to all others of faith is extended to all.

We have faith in a lot of things in this world, some find faith in this not of this world.

The boy Samuel, the Boy David, the boy Joseph, the boy Timothy the girl Ruth, the girl Mary.

The really awesome thing is we don't earn it its a gift from we just accept it.

God ask us to have faith in him because he gives the faith to us its our response that counts.

Questions for the christians

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