You don't understand what we do, Observer

[David Mullings]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

I do think that the average man cares about the people who claim to have their interest at heart and I arrived at that conclusion by speaking to actual "average people" and that is what they told me.

As for reading the JFJ's mission statement or re-reading the article, it has no bearing on my argument about what human rights actually means.

I am saying that whatever their mission statement, the article has defined only a PORTION of what the UN defines as human rights and no one has yet to refute that fact.

HRGs in Jamaica have a pr problem and suffer from lack of support from the general public - fact

They need to confront this and deal with it. Yes the media plays a role, but the HRGs play a role as well and should work on both.

My suggestion is that they focus on the wider definition of 'human rights' as indicated by the UN and communicate their work directly with the public, bypassing the mainstream media.

Does anyone disagree with that recommendation and what would your recommendation be?

[RichD]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David_Mullings</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do think that the average man cares about the people who claim to have their interest at heart and I arrived at that conclusion by speaking to actual &quot;average people&quot; and that is what they told me.

As for reading the JFJ's mission statement or re-reading the article, it has no bearing on my argument about what human rights actually means.

I am saying that whatever their mission statement, the article has defined only a PORTION of what the UN defines as human rights and no one has yet to refute that fact.

HRGs in Jamaica have a pr problem and suffer from lack of support from the general public - fact

They need to confront this and deal with it. Yes the media plays a role, but the HRGs play a role as well and should work on both.

My suggestion is that they focus on the wider definition of 'human rights' as indicated by the UN and communicate their work directly with the public, bypassing the mainstream media.

Does anyone disagree with that recommendation and what would your recommendation be? </div></div>

the point im making is that JFJ for one has been given the label of Human Rights Group which however is misleading given their stated mission ..and therefore UN info though interesting is irrelevant.
JFJ is a more of a legal rights group.

i think is is the role of the government to focus on the UN dfinition. IF another group decides that they need to do thsi then so be it i dont think JFJ needs to take this on they have their hands full with the area thay have choosen to focus on.

[David Mullings]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

&quot;the point im making is that JFJ for one has been given the label of Human Rights Group which however is misleading given their stated mission ..and therefore UN info though interesting is irrelevant.
JFJ is a more of a legal rights group.&quot;

Point taken.

So why isn't the JFJ doing more to promote the fact that they are a &quot;legal rights&quot; group and not a &quot;human rights&quot; group?

The letter they wrote did not make that distinction whatsoever and would have served a much better purpose if it did include that.

If I had seen that, I wouldn't cuss them off for defining human rights too narrowly.

I guess they really do need some PR help.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the point im making is that JFJ for one has been given the label of Human Rights Group which however is misleading given their stated mission ..and therefore UN info though interesting is irrelevant.
JFJ is a more of a legal rights group.

i think is is the role of the government to focus on the UN dfinition. IF another group decides that they need to do thsi then so be it i dont think JFJ needs to take this on they have their hands full with the area thay have choosen to focus on. </div></div>

The JFJ and other NGO's sit between the State that is responsible its Mandate, in line with the UNs definition. The Rights Groups only kick when the State fail.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David_Mullings</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;the point im making is that JFJ for one has been given the label of Human Rights Group which however is misleading given their stated mission ..and therefore UN info though interesting is irrelevant.
JFJ is a more of a legal rights group.&quot;

Point taken.

So why isn't the JFJ doing more to promote the fact that they are a &quot;legal rights&quot; group and not a &quot;human rights&quot; group?

The letter they wrote did not make that distinction whatsoever and would have served a much better purpose if it did include that.

If I had seen that, I wouldn't cuss them off for defining human rights too narrowly.

I guess they really do need some PR help. </div></div>

Yaawn... The Letter outlines clearly what is the function of JFJ and other such Groups!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer


<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Kudos for human rights groups</span></span>

Friday, August 08, 2008

Dear Editor,
I would like to commend publicly the human rights groups in Jamaica, especially Jamaicans for Justice (JFJ) for their excellent work, despite the constant negative feedback.


I also commend their persistence and determination to continue to stand for what they believe in and what must be preserved at all costs - our rights as human beings.

As you know, it is sheer ignorance and frustration that propel the misguided voices claiming that human rights groups seem more interested in protecting the criminals. Nothing could be further from the truth. For those of us who know better, we are all too painfully aware of the pernicious nature of an unchecked and unbalanced system of state power - which is so clearly demonstrated in George Orwell's Animal Farm - in today's Zimbabwe run by the despotic Robert Mugabe, and in the many modern-day instances of gross human rights abuse which are so indelibly etched in the annals of history.

Your letter outlining some of these instances and defending your position, JFJ, though late in coming, was quite refreshing, reassuring and enlightening, and should be the start of a public education campaign to make everyone, including the media, aware of the mandates and mission of the human rights groups locally and internationally.

Thank you for being the voice for the poor and disadvantaged who are easy prey not only for criminals, but also for the perpetrators of state (police) excesses. You have given hope to them and to us that there is still an avenue for recourse when we are wronged by those who should be our protectors

Thank you for standing up and protecting what is fundamentally the core of our existence - our human rights.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/letters/h...GHTS_GROUPS.asp

[David Mullings]

Re: You don't understand what we do, Observer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...should be the start of a public education campaign to make everyone, including the media, aware of the mandates and mission of the human rights groups locally and internationally.</div></div>

Better late than never I guess. Just goes to show they do have a PR problem when even a supporter thinks that they need to &quot;start&quot; a public education campaign - meaning the supporter believes none was ever started.

[Tuff Gong]

Don't dis' human rights

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Don't dis' human rights</span>
published: Monday | August 11, 2008

Garth Rattray

Ever since the Govern-ment was pressured into ramping up the fight on crime, several human rights organisations and interests have become hyper-vigilant. And, almost stride for stride, people critical of these groups have kept pace by openly 'dissing' (disrespecting) their efforts.

Anyone sensitive to human- rights issues and to the dangers of instituting draconian legislation will understand how they can impact negatively on all our lives - especially on the lives of our many innocent, poor and disenfranchised Jamaicans.

People who are quick to agree with rounding up and detaining any and all suspects within certain areas have no concept of what it's like to live in fear of starvation, fear of the criminals and fear of the police.

Those that profess to be ready and willing to give up their civil rights, albeit in this time of rampant criminality, are probably severely myopic.

Loved ones could be victims

I sometimes wonder if they don't realise that they or their loved ones could be caught up in some operation and thrown in a congested, dungeon-like cell for a long period of time.

Some of the proposed 'cures' (severe legal measures) may turn out to be worse than the 'disease' (crime status). And, some of the 'cures' may actually cause more 'disease'.

Incarcerating innocent suspects in literal hell holes (our horrendously overcrowded, dark, hot, stink and unhygienic lock-ups) with hardened criminals may cause so much distress and frustration in at-risk youth that it can induce them to hate and distrust the police and society.

Some will end up thinking that they might as well take the path of least resistance and engage in criminal activities (since they are already being perceived and treated as such).

Human-rights groups have been vilified by some for attempting to remind this administration that, in spite of our many murders and threat of anarchy, we are still a functioning democracy with entrenched citizens' rights.

For their (limited) success in modifying the proposed anti-crime measures, they have been chided, called 'soft on criminals', 'silly', 'out of touch' and accused of wanting to use powder puffs to engage the criminals.

Shotgun anti-crime methods

Governments have been known to use 'shotgun' (blunderbuss) anti-crime methods in the past. Such strong anti-crime measures (including mandatory sentencing, indefinite detentions, various special 'jump-out' squads and a prolonged state of emergency) failed to curb criminality. Instead, they produced a hardier breed of criminals and a police force that depended heavily on intimidation and brute force. The present proposed measures are more oppressive than they are suppressive.

These measures open the door for anyone to be denied their civil rights. For certain offences, our judges will effectively be no more than figureheads, puppets, automatons and referees.

By their very nature, human rights groups have no political agenda - they are the only real protection that we have against a desperate and sometimes misdirected administration.

We badly need our human-rights groups because there must be balance in society. Our oldest and premier human-rights organisation, the Independent Jamaica Council for Human Rights, not only defends the rights of suspected, accused and convicted individuals to fair and humane treatment, it also defends the rights of victims.

It not only has programmes in our (so-called) correctional institutions, it also has school programmes and teaches courses at the Police Training School.

Everyone is at risk for arbitrary arrest, prolonged incarceration and inhumane treatment. If any one person is denied his or her human rights, then we are all denied ours. No well-thinking individual should dis' human-rights organisations.

Dr Garth A. Rattray is a medical doctor with a family practice; email: [email protected]; for feedback: [email protected].

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080811/cleisure/cleisure2.html

[Wahalla]

Re: Don't dis' human rights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who are quick to agree with rounding up and detaining any and all suspects within certain areas have no concept of what it's like to live in fear of starvation, fear of the criminals and fear of the police.
</div></div>

[RichD]

Re: Don't dis' human rights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who are quick to agree with rounding up and detaining any and all suspects within certain areas have no concept of what it's like to live in fear of starvation, fear of the criminals and fear of the police.
</div></div> </div></div>

but they live with the comfortable assurance that it won't be them rounded up

[Wahalla]

Re: Don't dis' human rights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who are quick to agree with rounding up and detaining any and all suspects within certain areas have no concept of what it's like to live in fear of starvation, fear of the criminals and fear of the police.
</div></div> </div></div>

but they live with the comfortable assurance that it won't be them rounded up </div></div>

exactly.... as long as the victim is poor male and black its cool.....If the police shoot one gay guy the world of gays are enraged.. Let the police shoot one female and the feminists go mental.. Let the police shoot one buisness man, the PSOJ is in arms.. But if he is poor and black.. it does not matter.... Let some one point out that the police should not shoot young black men and the messenager is wrong....

Well we of Taino heritage expect to die unjustly....

[Tuff Gong]

Wire Tapping - attorney?

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Attorney accuses cops of wire tapping accuses cops of wire tapping </span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Thursday, 14 August 2008 </span>

Prominent attorney at law Valerie Neita Robertson is accusing the police of tapping her phone.

The attorney, who is now involved in several high profile cases against the State, told the RJR News Centre that she recently discovered the alleged invasion of her privacy.

Mrs. Neita Robertson says she has evidence to back her claims and that she has written to the Jamaican Bar Association about the matter.

&quot;Yes, I did write to the President of the Bar Association concerning issues that arose recently having to do with unprecedented searches at the Horizon Prison, of myself and Ms. Carolyn Reid as well as interference with my telephone,&quot; she said.

&quot;I have referred it to the Bar particularly because I am concerned about the invasion and the breaches of certain agreements we had regarding searches regarding council I am awaiting their response,&quot;

Mrs. Neita Robertson also claimed that the home of her colleague, Carolyn Reid, was searched by the police on the weekend.

Both attorneys are representing Superintendent Harry &quot;Bungles&quot; Daley in his case with the State.

She argued that the search and wiretapping were done to intimidate them.

Meanwhile the Police High Command is yet to issue an official statement which it promised following allegations that the cell phone of the prominent defence attorney was wiretapped.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Assistant Commissioner of Police in Charge of Intelligence, Owen Ellington who has expressed concern about the allegations said a statement would have been issued Thursday afternoon.

But up to news time the statement had not arrived.</span>

http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/10821/26/