Cabinet pores over report on preliminary IMF talks

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 11pt"> Any high school student of elementary economics should have known that <span style="font-weight: bold">every country use their international reserves to prop up their currency</span>.
So why are you harping on it as of it is not the usual practice?
That is a part of capitalist economy. It is not extraordinary. Even if tour GURU on the radio think it is. He does not know anything about economics and finance. </span> </div></div>

I don't think the discussion centered around every Government and what the practices are in relation to their economy. We are I imagine still discussing the Jamaican Economy.
I noticed that you keep making references to Motty Perkins whenever I present an argument to refute your idiotic, mind-numbing ramblings.

I have not listened to Motty Perkins in I really don’t know when, maybe you listen more than I do. I don't know Motty Perkins personally and I may have spotted him once in my life so far. That said if I were going to listen to anyone on the Economy, Politics and Culture in Jamaica Motty Perkins would be my first and last choice.

Now forward to the rest of your retarded notion. I am harping on it because Jamaica’s Reserves are borrowed at huge interests rates and must be taken in the in the context of what is the Jamaican economy. Jamaica's Reserves are also declining rapidly and it will soon become evident, <span style="font-style: italic">(if it is not yet evident)</span> to the GOJ that they cannot keep throwing good money after bad.

Maybe part of this deal with the IMF is to offer funds at more favourable rate to bolster the Reserves but I hardly think the IMF will endorse a foolish and doomed-to-fail plan of defending a currency that has lost all or most of its underpinnings including pride.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 11pt">On The Subject of whether government can control trade.

have you ever heard of the Trade board??
ever tried to take a vehicle back to the country?? Well sir that is an example of trade control. The Jamaican government under the JLP had controlled trade for a long time. YOU had to get a license to import just about anything then. The reason why they can't do it no is because they sign up treaty with the WTO no to do so.</span></div></div>

My friend I hope you don't consider yourself an Economist and I surely hope you don't claim to overstand the English Language and can follow a conversation. I meant trade as in the Trade in Dollars. It does not even need this kind of explanation since I was not claiming that the State cannot control regulate trade, all I was saying is that any decisions would be dependant on whether or not the GOJ feels is can effectively control the Trade. in currency.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> it was the PNP that subjected the country to a number of very stringent polices to control various activities in the 70s. The JLP wisely kept the strict Motor Vehicle import policy. The more man have cyar policy, which the PNP bragged about have actually caused more problems than it has solved.
I once posted a long list of the problems so I am not going to do it here, but take it from me that was one of the best policies ever designed by any Government in the history of Jamaica since Independence.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 11pt">On The Subject of whether government can control trade.

have you ever heard of the Trade board??
ever tried to take a vehicle back to the country?? Well sir that is an example of trade control. The Jamaican government under the JLP had controlled trade for a long time. YOU had to get a license to import just about anything then. The reason why they can't do it no is because they sign up treaty with the WTO no to do so.</span></div></div>

My friend I hope you don't consider yourself an Economist and I surely hope you don't claim to overstand the English Language and can follow a conversation. I meant trade as in the Trade in Dollars. It does not even need this kind of explanation since I was not claiming that the State cannot control regulate trade, all I was saying is that any decisions would be dependant on whether or not the GOJ feels is can effectively control the Trade. in currency.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> it was the PNP that subjected the country to a number of very stringent polices to control various activities in the 70s. The JLP wisely kept the strict Motor Vehicle import policy. The more man have cyar policy, which the PNP bragged about have actually caused more problems than it has solved.
I once posted a long list of the problems so I am not going to do it here, but take it from me that was one of the best policies ever designed by any Government in the history of Jamaica since Independence. </div></div><span style="font-size: 14pt"> What do you have to say about the topic? </span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 11pt">
On a side note...
Tour Guru Mr mutty, does he still have the farm around junction road??
I remember when he had the farm around junction road.
He got 2 enormous power generators from the US embassy.
Any one of them was powerful enough to light up a small city.
the problem was the farm could not afford to run neither of them. They were simply too expensive to operate on a farm.
I know he still have what is left of them because nobody would buy them off him.
</span> </div></div>

My friend I <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">honestly don't know Motty Perkins</span> and surely do not know any gossip about him. His public show, available by streaming from Jamaica would be the only place I could get information about him and as I explained above I have not listened in ages.

I suggest if <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">you </span>need personal information and gossip about him, drop his a line or check in with your usual sources. I just not a goss<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">ip-whore</span>, I am sorry!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> What do you have to say about the topic? </span> </div></div>

My friend It is here on the screen in front of you. Adjust your knickers, pull it out from the crease and you might see it.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 11pt"> Any high school student of elementary economics should have known that <span style="font-weight: bold">every country use their international reserves to prop up their currency</span>.
So why are you harping on it as of it is not the usual practice?
That is a part of capitalist economy. It is not extraordinary. Even if tour GURU on the radio think it is. He does not know anything about economics and finance. </span> </div></div>

I don't think the discussion centered around every Government and what the practices are in relation to their economy. We are I imagine still discussing the Jamaican Economy.
I noticed that you keep making references to Motty Perkins whenever I present an argument to refute your idiotic, mind-numbing ramblings.

I have not listened to Motty Perkins in I really don’t know when, maybe you listen more than I do. I don't know Motty Perkins personally and I may have spotted him once in my life so far. That said if I were going to listen to anyone on the Economy, Politics and Culture in Jamaica Motty Perkins would be my first and last choice.

Now forward to the rest of your retarded notion. I am harping on it because Jamaica’s Reserves are borrowed at huge interests rates and must be taken in the in the context of what is the Jamaican economy. Jamaica's Reserves are also declining rapidly and it will soon become evident, <span style="font-style: italic">(if it is not yet evident)</span> to the GOJ that they cannot keep throwing good money after bad.

Maybe part of this deal with the IMF is to offer funds at more favourable rate to bolster the Reserves but I hardly think the IMF will endorse a foolish and doomed-to-fail plan of defending a currency that has lost all or most of its underpinnings including pride. </div></div>I reference motty because he is the only one that suggest nonsense about the misuse of the international reserves to shore up currency. Even the US recently made a pact with e7 other nations to use their reserves to prop up each others currency. Lets try to input real alternatives.
Enough of the nonsense.

[RichD]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

here is one option

externalize the debt.....dollarize.....default (in that order)

[Amberal37]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [size:11pt] Any high school student of elementary economics should have known that <span style="font-weight: bold">every country use their international reserves to prop up their currency</span>.</div></div>

Yes - until their cash runs out!!
Let's see, which countries have got themselves into deep poo by doing this??...Russia, UK, Japan...Look - it takes even the big ones!!!

And oh pleaasse!! The more you labour the point about how MUCH you know about economics, the more you come across as totally ignorant on the topic. Fruitless maunderings I say...Asking such basic, that someone who is supposed of a level to teach economics should not even think to ask...hence my veeery BASIC response as to the definition of devaluation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How will purchasing power will be higher, when the price of every item will increase withe exchange rates??
Even bread will increase, fertilizer and chicken feed will increase,because Jamaica imports all the raw materials to produce everything they sell. How will the prices be lower?</div></div>

Selling <span style="font-weight: bold">prices </span> do not increase with the exchange rate...unless businesses within the country increase those prices.¨
If there <span style="font-weight: bold">costs </span> are from imported items, then those COSTS will increase, but the aim of devaluation is to bring in money and NOT let it flow out as quickly - hence a sensible government couples this with tighter fiscal policy (and I'm not going to explain these terms - according to you - you should know).

When you understand the BASICS of the language then we can perhaps have a discussion.

Really Dr. Dudd I think that you are intent on making this a distracting thread as perhaps your ego is dented - I don't know.
But I need prove nothing further here so I might just leave you to the meanderings.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I reference motty because he is the only one that suggest nonsense about the misuse of the international reserves to shore up currency. Even the US recently made a pact with e7 other nations to use their reserves to prop up each others currency. Lets try to input real alternatives.
Enough of the nonsense. </div></div>

Maybe he is the only one that have sense?
So the USA made a deal with 7 others may I ask which Seven?
The Jamaica Dollar value vs. some other currency is only critical in the context of Jamaica it is not going to be a world-shattering event if the Jamaican Dollar tumbles.
It is already worth nothing and is not tradable on the currency markets except in Jamaica.

Using borrowed funds, sourced at high interests rates just to prop of the Jamaican Dollar is extremely bad form.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is one option

externalize the debt.....dollarize.....default (in that order) </div></div> I hav eleraned over tim enever to tak eth eadvise of a personorgabioztion or religion who is not willing or able to kay out iy's prionciples in a way that make sense to me. i hav ebeen asking you this eversince you have proposed dollarization. I hav easked every other proposers too. They have since abandonned it except for a few economics illterates and you.
Now wht is it that the Us will not agree to back ant country that uses it's currency as their local tender?
remember it is illegal for any society to print Us currenct.

[RichD]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is one option

externalize the debt.....dollarize.....default (in that order) </div></div> I hav eleraned over tim enever to tak eth eadvise of a personorgabioztion or religion who is not willing or able to kay out iy's prionciples in a way that make sense to me. i hav ebeen asking you this eversince you have proposed dollarization. I hav easked every other proposers too. They have since abandonned it except for a few economics illterates and you.
Now wht is it that the Us will not agree to back ant country that uses it's currency as their local tender?
remember it is illegal for any society to print Us currenct. </div></div>

why does dollarization have to be based on the US dollar?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> [size:11pt] Any high school student of elementary economics should have known that <span style="font-weight: bold">every country use their international reserves to prop up their currency</span>.</div></div>

Yes - until their cash runs out!!
Let's see, which countries have got themselves into deep poo by doing this??...Russia, UK, Japan...Look - it takes even the big ones!!!

And oh please!! The more you labour the point about how MUCH you know about economics, the more you come across as totally ignorant on the topic. Fruitless maunderings I say...Asking such basic, that someone who is supposed of a level to teach economics should not even think to ask...hence my veeery BASIC response as to the definition of devaluation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How will purchasing power will be higher, when the price of every item will increase withe exchange rates??
Even bread will increase, fertilizer and chicken feed will increase,because Jamaica imports all the raw materials to produce everything they sell. How will the prices be lower?</div></div>

Selling <span style="font-weight: bold">prices </span> do not increase with the exchange rate...unless businesses within the country increase those prices.¨
If there <span style="font-weight: bold">costs </span> are from imported items, then those COSTS will increase, but the aim of devaluation is to bring in money and NOT let it flow out as quickly - hence a sensible government couples this with tighter fiscal policy (and I'm not going to explain these terms - according to you - you should know).

When you understand the BASICS of the language then we can perhaps have a discussion.

Really Dr. Dudd I think that you are intent on making this a distracting thread as perhaps your ego is dented - I don't know.
But I need prove nothing further here so I might just leave you to the meanderings.

</div></div>Simply because you are not adding to the knowledge in the thread. You have absolutely no knowledge about the reality of economics in Jamaica. You pick up stuff off the internet and do not realize that those figures are made up of inputs that you have absolutely no knowledge of. you treat economics a s iof it is a mathematical exercise that has no relation ship to anything but the paper it is written on.
As I said before this is not school. It is real life. You can't expect a mental exercise to achieve physical goals.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is one option

externalize the debt.....dollarize.....default (in that order) </div></div> I hav eleraned over tim enever to tak eth eadvise of a personorgabioztion or religion who is not willing or able to kay out iy's prionciples in a way that make sense to me. i hav ebeen asking you this eversince you have proposed dollarization. I hav easked every other proposers too. They have since abandonned it except for a few economics illterates and you.
Now wht is it that the Us will not agree to back ant country that uses it's currency as their local tender?
remember it is illegal for any society to print Us currenct. </div></div>

why does dollarization have to be based on the US dollar? </div></div>Maybe Because That is what th ewhole pronciple of dollarization is based on??

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I reference motty because he is the only one that suggest nonsense about the misuse of the international reserves to shore up currency. Even the US recently made a pact with e7 other nations to use their reserves to prop up each others currency. Lets try to input real alternatives.
Enough of the nonsense. </div></div>

Maybe he is the only one that have sense?
<span style="font-weight: bold">So the USA made a deal with 7 others may I ask which Seven?</span>
The Jamaica Dollar value vs. some other currency is only critical in the context of Jamaica it is not going to be a world-shattering event if the Jamaican Dollar tumbles.
It is already worth nothing and is not tradable on the currency markets except in Jamaica.

Using borrowed funds, sourced at high interests rates just to prop of the Jamaican Dollar is extremely bad form.
</div></div>China, South Korea, Japan,UK, Germany, France, and the EU.
The Jamaican currency i swirth more thn the Japanese currency.

[RichD]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

why does dollarization have to be based on the US dollar? </div></div>Maybe Because That is what th ewhole pronciple of dollarization is based on?? [/quote]

not really ....they could &quot;dollarize&quot; tot he pound ..to the euro..to the EC$ even the TT dollar