US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 08:42 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*groan*......it was only a matter of time before this discussion descends into and about personalities on the board,....in the same way as all other discussions about jamaica. </div></div>

That is how it works and invariably when it happens no facts are forthcoming, but the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">accusations</span> keeps flying.

**neutral** · 03-04-2010, 08:50 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

True dat !

Only if yu happen to agree with someone`s point of view, yu an dem inna "clique".

**Panajar** · 03-04-2010, 09:20 PM

The US tightening the screws

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Columns

The US tightening the screws

Mark Wignall

Thursday, March 04, 2010

AFTER having financed our way of life for too many years, our powerful neighbour to the north, the USA, has decided not just as the one which calls the tune, to tell the piper to "play another tune", it has, in the latest US Drug Report on Jamaica, told us to pipe down, straighten up and fly right.

In its most pointed accusation (Country's Actions against Drugs 2009 sub-headed Corruption) it said, "Indeed, Jamaica's delay in processing the US extradition request for a major suspected drug and firearms trafficker with reported ties to <span style="color: #CC0000">the ruling party highlights the potential depth of corruption in the government."</span>

PHILLIPS... will he be prepared to say definitively that not a single case of extradition order made in his time as security minister was supported by illegally obtained wiretapping?

Based on the geopolitical maxim as best espoused by Henry Kissinger in the 1970s that America has no friends, only interests, the US - without Cold War considerations and with an economy that is increasingly going up the down escalator - <span style="color: #FF0000">has little time to be splitting hairs with a dead-broke, corrupt, crime-ridden, politically insignificant country such as ours.</span>

The best that a last diplomatic vetting of the report could have provided for that sentence was the word, "potential" used to modify "depth of corruption in the government". One suspects that that word "potential" was a last-minute addition to the report in an effort to provide the JLP administration an escape clause that would run the US's way and to satisfy international protocol.

The government's position on its refusal to hand over Tivoli "president" Christopher "Dudus" Coke is that the information as gathered through wiretapping of his phone was done in breach of Jamaican law. The government's position is as outlined in the prime minister's statement to Parliament last Tuesday: "In one important respect, however, it was found to be in violation of the law. The Interception of Communications Act makes strict provisions for the manner in which intercepted communications may be obtained and disclosed. The evidence supporting the extradition request in this particular case violated those provisions. So serious an offence is this violation that the penalty provided by law is a maximum fine of $5 million or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both such fine and imprisonment. The law further requires that for intercepted communication to be admissible in any criminal proceedings, it must have been obtained, disclosed and used in accordance with these provisions. This was not done in this case. This was highly irregular."

One assumes that for the electronic interception (fancy name for wiretapping) to have been legal, it would have to have been sanctioned through the courts and may be approved through some parliamentary committee. <span style="font-size: 14pt">All of this in a small country and a situation where Dudus and the system which gave him birth and street legitimacy have politically genetic links to the ruling JLP (administration) and the JLP of the past.</span>

Even though "the law" in a democracy was designed to bring order and balance to such a society, the language of law is nothing more than a secret code between members of a fraternity who sit at the top of most societies. It was never designed to be understood by the common man, and at times, it seems that it was deliberately coded to confuse the vast majority of those making up most societies.

For this reason legal minds in Jamaica have brought their own tribal political baggage with them in explaining aspects of the Dudus extradition in various media.

To me, a few positions present themselves readily. One, it is obvious that Dudus as a "man of interest" to the US authorities, wields more power than all of the other people extradited from Jamaica for alleged drug involvement in the last five years. Two, is it not more than likely that of those so extradited, some of the "evidence" was gathered by illegal wiretapping? Did we hear anything from the JLP Opposition in those years in terms of protecting the rights of

those individuals?

Third, would someone like Dr Peter Phillips, easily the most competent of the spokespersons in the Opposition PNP, be prepared to say definitively that not a single case of extradition order made in his time as security minister was supported by illegally obtained wiretapping?

In the 1970s when the mercurial Eric Gairy was prime minister of Grenada, he had a band of thugs (the Mongoose Gang) attached to his party. He was interviewed by, I think, a British journalist who pointed out to him that many of those forming the Mongoose Gang had criminal records and were cut-throats.

Gairy's reply? "Well, it takes a thief to catch a thief."

In the late 1990s when then police Commissioner Francis Forbes set up an outfit called The Special Intelligence Unit, it was Roderick "Jimmy" McGregor who was put in charge of it. To me, it was the best move ever made, even though there were more than indications that illegal wiretaps had been made. In some of the documents which I surreptitiously obtained from computers attached to the disbanded SIU, some of the very names being mentioned now were taped in conversation talking to other "men of interest". And of course, it appears that Jimmy had no specific political leanings as people loyal to both sides were being listened to electronically. Including high-ranking politicians in

the PNP!

McGregor himself was a highly trained operative who had links to Israeli Intelligence and other intelligence-gathering agencies in the US. Plus, in his undercover work, at times the lines became blurred in what he did.

Let us not fool ourselves that wiretapping can be legally sanctioned in a small, corrupt country like Jamaica where every politician knows a man of interest and every superintendent of police is a potential invitee to that link.

America, through its chief surrogate, the IMF, has parted with its money and Jamaica is the beneficiary. As a spin-off, China has made us a soft loan of US$400 million to fix roads. This is an obvious political boon to the JLP, especially if the majority of this work can be clustered around the months leading up to the 2012 elections.

Having given us US$400 million of the first tranche of US$1.2 billion, the USA, through the IMF, wants the unwritten conditions of the Standby Agreement to trip in. The Dudus extradition is, I believe, a main one.

<span style="color: #FF0000">One gets the impression that action at Jamaica House, depending on the nature of it, must first be sanctioned on other home fronts not necessarily so endowed with prime ministerial trappings. But, sometimes a prime minister may find that when he becomes just as scared as the rest of us, he is merely a second-tier leader on the real rankings.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is one of the few times i have to agree with this JLP mouth piece,anyone think Bruce is resisting because he is some patriotic statesman is deluding his or her self.Bruce is trying to save his own hide politically and literally,either way donmanship is about coming to a end in Jamaica. It might be ugly, but the die is already cast.The paramilitary arm of the jlp whose base is in west Kingston, and commanded by dudus must be aware that their days are numbered.Word on the street a certain politician who think he is political royalty will be looking a obstruction of justice charge look like wire tap kecth him a reveal confidential information to the subject of a grand jury indictment .
</span>

link

**evanovitch** · 03-04-2010, 10:01 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*groan*......it was only a matter of time before this discussion descends into and about personalities on the board,....in the same way as all other discussions about jamaica. </div></div>

That is how it works and invariably when it happens no facts are forthcoming, but the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">accusations</span> keeps flying. </div></div>

the irony is dat u stawted wat u a agree fi groan bout..u stawted the name calling wid MG...i continue to be agog at ur inability to see ur own wrongdoing....wat is this calling fi proof if u naw understan wat is said to u...

my gawd man...u wan fi stawt an argument bout wedda u stawt argument....n den u wan oddas fi accept wat u seh bout dem....dat is wat i dont understand about u TG..fi real

**evanovitch** · 03-04-2010, 10:06 PM

US State Dept narcotics report enrages the Caribbean

US State Dept narcotics report enrages the Caribbean
Thursday, 04 March 2010

Caribbean nations continue to react angrily to the latest narcotics report issued by the US State Department.

The Foreign Minister of the Dominican Republic has told Washington to mind its business after the report said that the country's "endemic" corruption was preventing success against the narcotics trade.

Carlos Morales said the US should not interfere in his country's internal affairs, because the Dominican Republic does not issue reports on American corruption.

Guyana has called on the US to talk less and act more with regard to Guyana's efforts to counter the narcotics trade.

The report accused Guyanese authorities of failing to identify or confront major drug traffickers.

<span style="font-weight: bold">the hypocrisy of the US is that it continues to give monies, ostensibly to eradicate di weed etc...so if u continue to give YET u NOW saying it not being done, how chupid do u look PLUS wid all ur satellites an billions u cannot shut ur borders off much less get ur own people to curtail dem demand ...Y? cause u spending ur monies to be first in a world gone amuk...damn eediats...even di third world druggist dem smart enuff fi come n tek ovah u Federal lands n a plant dem drugs deh, but u a run dung one man </span>

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 10:10 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the irony is dat u stawted wat u a agree fi groan bout..u stawted the name calling wid MG...</div></div>

What name calling? I asked a few questions?

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 10:13 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....n den u wan oddas fi accept wat u seh bout dem....dat is wat i dont understand about u TG..fi real </div></div>

The hunders of accusations you made about it still left hanging.
Just like MG ...I am surprised she did not got to name calling arguemtn first.

Don't worry pretty soon I <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will</span> officially start the<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> name-calling</span>. I have some choice ones prepared.

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 10:18 PM

Re: The US tightening the screws

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LATEST NEWS:

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Columns

The US tightening the screws

Mark Wignall

Thursday, March 04, 2010

AFTER having financed our way of life for too many years, our powerful neighbour to the north, the USA, has decided not just as the one which calls the tune, to tell the piper to "play another tune", it has, in the latest US Drug Report on Jamaica, told us to pipe down, straighten up and fly right.

In its most pointed accusation (Country's Actions against Drugs 2009 sub-headed Corruption) it said, "Indeed, Jamaica's delay in processing the US extradition request for a major suspected drug and firearms trafficker with reported ties to <span style="color: #CC0000">the ruling party highlights the potential depth of corruption in the government."</span>

PHILLIPS... will he be prepared to say definitively that not a single case of extradition order made in his time as security minister was supported by illegally obtained wiretapping?

Based on the geopolitical maxim as best espoused by Henry Kissinger in the 1970s that America has no friends, only interests, the US - without Cold War considerations and with an economy that is increasingly going up the down escalator - <span style="color: #FF0000">has little time to be splitting hairs with a dead-broke, corrupt, crime-ridden, politically insignificant country such as ours.</span>

The best that a last diplomatic vetting of the report could have provided for that sentence was the word, "potential" used to modify "depth of corruption in the government". One suspects that that word "potential" was a last-minute addition to the report in an effort to provide the JLP administration an escape clause that would run the US's way and to satisfy international protocol.

The government's position on its refusal to hand over Tivoli "president" Christopher "Dudus" Coke is that the information as gathered through wiretapping of his phone was done in breach of Jamaican law. The government's position is as outlined in the prime minister's statement to Parliament last Tuesday: "In one important respect, however, it was found to be in violation of the law. The Interception of Communications Act makes strict provisions for the manner in which intercepted communications may be obtained and disclosed. The evidence supporting the extradition request in this particular case violated those provisions. So serious an offence is this violation that the penalty provided by law is a maximum fine of $5 million or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both such fine and imprisonment. The law further requires that for intercepted communication to be admissible in any criminal proceedings, it must have been obtained, disclosed and used in accordance with these provisions. This was not done in this case. This was highly irregular."

One assumes that for the electronic interception (fancy name for wiretapping) to have been legal, it would have to have been sanctioned through the courts and may be approved through some parliamentary committee. <span style="font-size: 14pt">All of this in a small country and a situation where Dudus and the system which gave him birth and street legitimacy have politically genetic links to the ruling JLP (administration) and the JLP of the past.</span>

Even though "the law" in a democracy was designed to bring order and balance to such a society, the language of law is nothing more than a secret code between members of a fraternity who sit at the top of most societies. It was never designed to be understood by the common man, and at times, it seems that it was deliberately coded to confuse the vast majority of those making up most societies.

For this reason legal minds in Jamaica have brought their own tribal political baggage with them in explaining aspects of the Dudus extradition in various media.

To me, a few positions present themselves readily. One, it is obvious that Dudus as a "man of interest" to the US authorities, wields more power than all of the other people extradited from Jamaica for alleged drug involvement in the last five years. Two, is it not more than likely that of those so extradited, some of the "evidence" was gathered by illegal wiretapping? Did we hear anything from the JLP Opposition in those years in terms of protecting the rights of

those individuals?

Third, would someone like Dr Peter Phillips, easily the most competent of the spokespersons in the Opposition PNP, be prepared to say definitively that not a single case of extradition order made in his time as security minister was supported by illegally obtained wiretapping?

In the 1970s when the mercurial Eric Gairy was prime minister of Grenada, he had a band of thugs (the Mongoose Gang) attached to his party. He was interviewed by, I think, a British journalist who pointed out to him that many of those forming the Mongoose Gang had criminal records and were cut-throats.

Gairy's reply? "Well, it takes a thief to catch a thief."

In the late 1990s when then police Commissioner Francis Forbes set up an outfit called The Special Intelligence Unit, it was Roderick "Jimmy" McGregor who was put in charge of it. To me, it was the best move ever made, even though there were more than indications that illegal wiretaps had been made. In some of the documents which I surreptitiously obtained from computers attached to the disbanded SIU, some of the very names being mentioned now were taped in conversation talking to other "men of interest". And of course, it appears that Jimmy had no specific political leanings as people loyal to both sides were being listened to electronically. Including high-ranking politicians in

the PNP!

McGregor himself was a highly trained operative who had links to Israeli Intelligence and other intelligence-gathering agencies in the US. Plus, in his undercover work, at times the lines became blurred in what he did.

Let us not fool ourselves that wiretapping can be legally sanctioned in a small, corrupt country like Jamaica where every politician knows a man of interest and every superintendent of police is a potential invitee to that link.

America, through its chief surrogate, the IMF, has parted with its money and Jamaica is the beneficiary. As a spin-off, China has made us a soft loan of US$400 million to fix roads. This is an obvious political boon to the JLP, especially if the majority of this work can be clustered around the months leading up to the 2012 elections.

Having given us US$400 million of the first tranche of US$1.2 billion, the USA, through the IMF, wants the unwritten conditions of the Standby Agreement to trip in. The Dudus extradition is, I believe, a main one.

<span style="color: #FF0000">One gets the impression that action at Jamaica House, depending on the nature of it, must first be sanctioned on other home fronts not necessarily so endowed with prime ministerial trappings. But, sometimes a prime minister may find that when he becomes just as scared as the rest of us, he is merely a second-tier leader on the real rankings.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is one of the few times i have to agree with this JLP mouth piece,anyone think Bruce is resisting because he is some patriotic statesman is deluding his or her self.Bruce is trying to save his own hide politically and literally,either way donmanship is about coming to a end in Jamaica. It might be ugly, but the die is already cast.The paramilitary arm of the jlp whose base is in west Kingston, and commanded by dudus must be aware that their days are numbered.Word on the street a certain politician who think he is political royalty will be looking a obstruction of justice charge look like wire tap kecth him a reveal confidential information to the subject of a grand jury indictment .
</span>

link </div></div>

Can you explain what Mark is writing about I could not quite figure it out. Is he saying Dudus and the JLP invented violence so the wire-taps are legal?

The Prime Minster said the the USA is basing its request for extradition on illegal wiretaps I would like to see that challenged not with confused, ramblings of an obviously disturbed mind but with facts!

**evanovitch** · 03-04-2010, 10:48 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....n den u wan oddas fi accept wat u seh bout dem....dat is wat i dont understand about u TG..fi real </div></div>

The hunders of accusations you made about it still left hanging.
Just like MG ...I am surprised she did not got to name calling arguemtn first.

Don't worry pretty soon I <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will</span>

officially start the<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> name-calling</span>. I have some choice ones prepared. </div></div>

+"For years you have demonstrated your singular bias of relying on a little clique to pass judgments, this very troubling for a board moderator, much worse an Administrator.
"

i realise dat ur socialisation ongle associate badwud wid name cawling but i would have hoped u had grown beyond that thinking...wat u said falls into the category an changed the tone of the post , having been written..by vous

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 10:54 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+"For years you have demonstrated your singular bias of relying on a little clique to pass judgments, this very troubling for a board moderator, much worse an Administrator. </div></div>

That is name-calling?
Was there a time recently when MG (it wasn't so recent but she has done it more than once)or you claim that for years I have done x. y or z?
If it wasn't name-calling then how is it name-calling now to point out an observation you have made about someone through years of interaction?

It must be <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">true</span> or n<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">ot true</span> ...but <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">name-calling</span>?

**Tuff Gong** · 03-04-2010, 10:56 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i realise dat ur socialisation ongle associate badwud wid name cawling but i would have hoped u had grown beyond that thinking...wat u said falls into the category an changed the tone of the post , having been written..by vous </div></div>

LOL you are a joke!
I guess the rider above qualifies your statement and absolve you of all <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">sins</span>?

**andronian2** · 03-05-2010, 08:24 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

The political dimensions of the argument get tiresome because we cannot prove any allegations or properly support any defense.
As a result most the chat about corruption and donnism is just a whole lot of noise because none of us are in a position to ascertain true motives.

It certainly concerns me that a Jamaican citizen who has never been to the USA could be yanked out of his country to face charges using evidence his own country could not have legally used against him.
On the other hand, I am not absolutely positive that ANY ordinary citizen would have provoked the resolute stand the Jamaican government has taken with respect to this particular case.

**evanovitch** · 03-05-2010, 08:30 PM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i realise dat ur socialisation ongle associate badwud wid name cawling but i would have hoped u had grown beyond that thinking...wat u said falls into the category an changed the tone of the post , having been written..by vous </div></div>

LOL you are a joke!
I guess the rider above qualifies your statement and absolve you of all <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">sins</span>? </div></div>

mi always seh mi is yaadie enuff fi gwane wid wat mi gwane wid...ergo mi admit pon di regular to mi shawtcomings wich is y mi no fraid fi pint urs out wen u stawt wid u cussing cause u no ha no whe else fi tun ...wat mi a come fi realise u is dat u read but no read...

**Dr.Dudd** · 03-05-2010, 10:28 PM

Re: US State Dept narcotics report enrages the Caribbean

How come they did not have any mouth when W was in power??
Is the brown skin man they all have strength for??

All of a sudden very little country despot a play CHAVEZ now??
What's up with that??<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US State Dept narcotics report enrages the Caribbean
Thursday, 04 March 2010

Caribbean nations continue to react angrily to the latest narcotics report issued by the US State Department.

The Foreign Minister of the Dominican Republic has told Washington to mind its business after the report said that the country's "endemic" corruption was preventing success against the narcotics trade.

Carlos Morales said the US should not interfere in his country's internal affairs, because the Dominican Republic does not issue reports on American corruption.

Guyana has called on the US to talk less and act more with regard to Guyana's efforts to counter the narcotics trade.

The report accused Guyanese authorities of failing to identify or confront major drug traffickers.

<span style="font-weight: bold">the hypocrisy of the US is that it continues to give monies, ostensibly to eradicate di weed etc...so if u continue to give YET u NOW saying it not being done, how chupid do u look PLUS wid all ur satellites an billions u cannot shut ur borders off much less get ur own people to curtail dem demand ...Y? cause u spending ur monies to be first in a world gone amuk...damn eediats...even di third world druggist dem smart enuff fi come n tek ovah u Federal lands n a plant dem drugs deh, but u a run dung one man </span> </div></div>

**Tuff Gong** · 03-06-2010, 05:40 AM

Re: US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

mi always seh mi is yaadie enuff fi gwane wid wat mi gwane wid...ergo mi admit pon di regular to mi shawtcomings wich is y mi no fraid fi pint urs out wen u stawt wid u cussing cause u no ha no whe else fi tun ...wat mi a come fi realise u is dat u read but no read... </div></div>

LOL I am pretty sure time and time again I have demonstrated that I am willing to debate any issue <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">based only upon the issue</span>, but I am also willing to address the digressions as well.
It would be great to be able to ignore the digressions but they come so fast and thick that I am virtually smothered and I have to try to get out from under it some kind of way.

99% of your replies to I invariably is about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">your assessment of my personal motives</span>, my mental state, etc. Your arguments most of them are still here look them up see how long it took you to decide that:

I switched political positions and are not beating up on erstwhile Comrades.
I live inna glass house.
I am Bi-Polar like you.
I am lying about my past employment.
I have some ulterior motives.
I am confusing you with your sister.
I am Jamaican so I am prone telling lies.
I am Jamaican so I am a hypocrite.
etc, etc!

US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

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