pastors to run state boards

[Tuff Gong]

Re: pastors to run state boards


Let us Pray!

Wed Apr 5, 2006
Christians pleased with prayer meeting, alleged gang members arrested

Many of the thousands who went to pray at the Spanish Town Prison Oval on Wednesday are expressing confidence that the event will make a difference in the troubled community.
The Prison Oval was transformed into holy ground as the church groups in the Corporate Area, Portmore and Spanish Town spent the day worshipping.

The thousands of worshippers came away spiritually refreshed. Thelma Taylor was one of those who spent the day praying for a new direction. She declared that the exercise was necessary in this time of chaos and disorder.

Another worshiper, who gave her name only as Beulah, is of the view that the event was ordained by God.

John Williams asserts that there is an urgent need to look to a greater power.

The biblical day of Pentecost sums up the imagery at the Prison Oval on Wednesday. Clad mostly in white, the worshippers thronged the huge facility to pray away murder, mayhem and other forms of crime and violence in troubled Spanish Town.

The two massive tents in which hundreds of seats were provided were simply not adequate to hold the crowd.

The people had been streaming steadily into the oval since 5:00 Wednesday morning.

Unlike the throng in the biblical story of the five loaves, the people came prepared. As the morning sun streamed bright and scorching, the worshippers who did not get places under the tents, pulled out umbrellas and were prepared to stand just about anywhere.

Arrests made
In the meantime, at least three of the major players in the gang war in Spanish Town were taken into custody Wednesday during police operations in the town.

Police say the three were among several persons detained during a cordon and search in some communities.

According to the police, the three men, whose names have not been released, were implicated in several of the shootings which have taken place in and around Spanish Town.

They are slated to face several identification parades.


..........From RJR News..............

[Tuff Gong]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
Jamaica gets less than US$20 milliona year from the uS,and for a number pf years there was 2 million that was not issued by the local embassy,and it possibly is still there,with none the worst for jamaica.
Look at what the US do about AID to Haiti??

[/ QUOTE ]


Let us pray!

As usual you choose to argue in the subjective rather than the objective and in the process make claims with nothing to support it. As for AID destroying any country I don't know how you bend you mind around that. Who elected AID to run a country?
Most countries receive AID to point out the worse use of AID, is very dishonest.

I really don't know why you are going all the to Haiti, Jamaica is one of the most AIDed countries in the world, almost every Government and NGO project/program that has been launched/established in Jamaica depends on foreign AID mainly from the USA.
Jamaica is now broke, significant amounts of it annual budget is borrowed, which make any AID it can secure even more important.

The real point is not the amount of AID that Jamaica will or will not the, it is the problems it will create when some activists in the USA or in other countries else start to lobby their Governments to stop supporting us because we now a Theocracy.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jamaica gets less than US$20 milliona year from the uS,and for a number pf years there was 2 million that was not issued by the local embassy,and it possibly is still there,with none the worst for jamaica.
Look at what the US do about AID to Haiti??

[/ QUOTE ]


Let us pray!

As usual you choose to argue in the subjective rather than the objective and in the process make claims with nothing to support it. As for AID destroying any country I don't know how you bend you mind around that. Who elected AID to run a country?
Most countries receive AID to point out the worse use of AID, is very dishonest.

I really don't know why you are going all the to Haiti, Jamaica is one of the most AIDed countries in the world, almost every Government and NGO project/program that has been launched/established in Jamaica depends on foreign AID mainly from the USA.
Jamaica is now broke, significant amounts of it annual budget is borrowed, which make any AID it can secure even more important.

The real point is not the amount of AID that Jamaica will or will not the, it is the problems it will create when some activists in the USA or in other countries else start to lobby their Governments to stop supporting us because we now a Theocracy.

[/ QUOTE ]
NGO's are not usually beneficial to th ecountry as much a s it is to the sponsors. they usually are PR agency of their benefactors,who usually use them to undermine the elected government of the countries they claim to support.
That is the new approach to destablizing countries by others with their own agendas,usually notin the best intrest of the general population.

[mountaingal]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
NGO's are not usually beneficial to th ecountry as much a s it is to the sponsors. they usually are PR agency of their benefactors,who usually use them to undermine the elected government of the countries they claim to support.
That is the new approach to destablizing countries by others with their own agendas,usually notin the best intrest of the general population.

[/ QUOTE ]

the NGOs i worked with in the 1990s in Kingston got no support, moral or financial, from the Jamaican government, which was fixated on the business sector. PR or not, the NGOs delivered services in some neighbourhoods that more stocious jamaicans, i guess the uptowners, felt were beyond them. Most NGOs are staffed and run by Jamaicans, and if it weren't for foreign donors, nuff a dem wouldnt have jobs.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
NGO's are not usually beneficial to th ecountry as much a s it is to the sponsors. they usually are PR agency of their benefactors,who usually use them to undermine the elected government of the countries they claim to support.
That is the new approach to destablizing countries by others with their own agendas,usually notin the best intrest of the general population.

[/ QUOTE ]

The argument is about the stupid and dangerous statements that PSM has made.
Speaking at the Rehoboth Apostolic Church in Portmore last Sunday she said: [ QUOTE ]
"If I am appointed by the Almighty to be prime minister then all of you Christians must give support to the appointment of the Lord. If it is not done, the whip will not be drawn against me, because I am going to be carrying out His will."

[/ QUOTE ]
No NGO has the power of PSM and we don't elect NGOs to run Jamaica.

[PILOT]

Re: pastors to run state boards

'AYATOLLAH' PORTIA? The Prime Minister and the pastors
published: Sunday | April 9, 2006


WE HAVE a knack in Jamaica for turning every potential solution into a problem. Against the background of unacceptably high levels of corruption, abuse of public funds, a rapid decline in standards of decency and general moral decay, a proposal to involve the clergy on state boards should be greeted with a chorus of approval.

Instead, we have spent the entire week catastrophising and devising conspiracy theories about the Talibanisation of the Jamaican state, with Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller being a kind of female Ayatollah ready to impose Christian Sharia on the nation, and fatwas on those who would dare to disobey. No doubt Prime Minister Simpson Miller would have thought she would have been applauded by the country's elite and the chattering classes (she certainly is by the masses) for seeking to send a significant signal that she was serious about probity and accountability.

MORAL WISDOM

She is not naïve enough to believe that the clergy is the exclusive repository of moral wisdom or the sole guardians of public morality. She is not unaware of the many scandals in the Christian Church both here and abroad, and she must know that there are rascals among the clergy, too. But, it was not unreasonable for her to expect that commentators and others who take an interest in public discourse should see from her proposal to put pastors on state boards that she was making an important symbolic move to indicate a direction, a process, and not a destination. But, alas, it has turned out that she expected too much of those who influence public debate in the country.

Wilmot Perkins began his usual sermon on Monday morning by intoning in solemn terms about the danger of the Prime Minister's proposal. Orville Taylor on Radio Jamaica was adding his screams on the issue. Meanwhile, the Observer, not to be left out, warned in an editorial on Tuesday that "The Prime Minister, we submit, is treading on dangerous ground."

GOVERNANCE WITH RELIGION

The Gleaner was more restrained and sober in its editorial on the same day, but still felt it necessary to make the non sequitur point that "The Prime Minister needs to be careful how closely she aligns governance with religion".

Others have gone back into history to dig up atrocities committed by Christians and Muslims in their Holy Wars, attempts at forced conversions and campaigns against infidels and dissidents. Indeed, countless millions have died because of religious bigotry, hatred and persecution: an undeniable fact of history.

Besides, to this very day we see the terrors of religious extremism and barbarism in the actions of Islamic states and Islamists, and not so long ago we nessed Catholic and Protestant Christians killing one another in Northern Ireland. In addition, being so strongly influenced by the United States, we cannot help importing their own internal debate over the separation of church and state into our discussion of the Simpson Miller proposal. It's a storm in a teacup and much ado about nothing. Let's rationally and dispassionately examine the issue.

First, the concept of the separation of church and state does not mean, in its original articulation, that religion should have no influence in the public square. What it meant and ought to mean is that sectarianism, the elevation of one religion over others and the promotion of state religions, should be forbidden, for this usually involves discrimination and even persecution against secularists and people of other religious faiths.

The Puritans who fled England to establish the New Jerusalem in the United States were fleeing religious persecution and tyranny there. They worked to set up not a state with no religious influence but one which did not have a state religion and which respected freedom of conscience for every human being. There is absolutely no suggestion or indication from Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller that she intends to elevate her Pentecostal-type flavour over other religious expressions.

Indeed, she made her call for Pastors on boards at a Seventh - day Adventist church. And on that same day she gave audience to the spiritual Leader of the Nation of Islam, the Hon Louis Farrakhan. The following day she worshipped with the Pentecostals but on Monday morning she had the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kingston say prayers at Cabinet meeting. In her searing-in speech she called on Jamaicans to join for prayer those who worship on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. You can't be more inclusive than that-for those three days cover all the religions which hold meetings in Jamaica, including the Bahais, the Hindus and the Muslims.

What we should fear is if we had any indication that she was elevating as public policy the sectarian views of any group or even imposing peculiarly Christian dogmas on the society. We have absolutely no indication that.

It is not as though the Prime Minister is going to ban carnival and Fully-Loaded on Sundays, mandate that the plazas start locking on Sundays and decree that all the go-go(exotic) clubs be closed. This will remain in a pluralistic society.

The church is the major institution in what can be called the moral sector. Because of the pressing need to emphasise enabling values and attitudes, the Prime Minister is by the symbolic action of having pastors on boards saying that ethical issues must form part of the decision-making process, just as technical and economic issues are critical.

People ask what technical or board-specific skills the Pastors would have to warrant their being on those boards. They bring a moral sensitivity and an ethical grounding to the discussion of public policy. Because of our general ignorance of philosophy, we assume that the technical, economic and business issues are value and philosophically-neutral. This is nonsense. The view that issues should only be discussed from a technical, economic and narrowly operational way is itself reflecting of a philosophical stance and is not ideologically-neutral. It masquerades as commonsensical, but the truth is, as the postmodernist philosophers insist there is no "view from nowhere", no Archimedean point. As Foucault says, we must unmask this power game disguised as unquestionable truth.

Of course, the Pastor is not the arbiter of morality and probity. You don't have to believe in God or go to church to be ethical and to be a person of probity. Boards should, as a rule, have only people of integrity and rectitude. Pastors should not have to be added for that dimension. But we have become carried away with the literalism of the issue, ignoring the powerful symbolic point which is being made by the proposed appointment of pastors. We are missing the forest for the trees, as we are wont to do in Jamaica.

Let's approach the issue another way: What is the potential harm or danger in the prime Minister's proposal? That religion would have too much influence on the state? You mean one pastor will necessarily turn a whole board into sectarian directions, overturning the civil liberties of the nation? Question: Is the appointment more likely to do more harm than good? Or is it not more likely to have a generally positive effect on public policy?

The PM has said she will involve other religions not just Christianity. But the fact is that aside from Rastafarianism all the other non-Christian religions in Jamaica are not even a blip on the radar. I say that as a journalist who has been covering religion since the 1970s.

Besides, the world religions share certain universalistic values. Indeed, they share common values with even secular humanists. What the Prime Minister is proposing is that public morality -- not specifically Christian morality-is protected by having the majority group in the moral sector in Jamaica included in public policy making. This is admirable and should be supported by all sections of the society, including agnostics and atheists. (Happily, the agnostic Anthony Abrahams has given some excellent arguments in favour of the Prime Minister's proposal).

There are certain public goods which religion can facilitate and the Prime Minister has sagaciously enlisted the majority religion to do so. Excellent.

I myself am thoroughly opposed to religious people's exercising power. Too many religious people are bigoted, prejudiced, close-minded, anti-intellectual, narrow and obscurantist. I would bitterly oppose any Christian party running on a Fundamentalist, Born again platform. These people who are taking direct commands from God can justify all manner of atrocities and evil in the name of God. Remember, in their theodicy God does not need any justification for any action He takes and if they are speaking for God neither do they! I prefer to live in a secular state rather than a Christian, Islamic or any religious state. I cherish the freedoms bequeathed by the Enlightenment.

But what Portia Simpson Miller is proposing does nothing to threaten separation of church and state or pluralism. She is simply seeing to strengthen our economic and social foundations by strengthening the influence of the moral sector. She wants to ensure that public policy is driven by larger ethical concerns, not narrow operational issues. I understand the fears of some of the objectors. But they are imposing somebody's else debate and "issues" on us.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
But what Portia Simpson Miller is proposing does nothing to threaten separation of church and state or pluralism. She is simply seeing to strengthen our economic and social foundations by strengthening the influence of the moral sector.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let us Pray!

[ QUOTE ]
"I intend on Monday, at my first Cabinet meeting, to instruct my ministers that every board, when they are creating them, must have a pastor as chairman, or as a member of the board, to ensure probity,"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"If I am appointed by the Almighty to be prime minister then all of you Christians must give support to the appointment of the Lord. If it is not done, the whip will not be drawn against me, because I am going to be carrying out His will."

[/ QUOTE ]

The above is not maintenance of a separation of Church and State, no matter how you cut it, slice it and dice it.

[Hopyoneson]

Lawd a gad first pastor appointed, wi in a trouble



IN fulfilment of her pledge before God and man that she would put churchmen to run or sit on state boards, Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller has appointed Dr Herbert Thompson, the straight-talking president of the Seventh-day Adventist-owned Northern Caribbean University (NCU) as chairman of the key Universal Access Fund.

Thompson, who is already a member of the Electoral Advisory Committee (EAC), has been at the helm of the Mandeville-based NCU for the past 15 years and was in March conferred with the national honour - Commander of the Order of Distinction (CD) - for his contribution to national development through education, religion and national service.

He heads the strategic Universal Access Fund, which was created last May to provide financial support for the government's e-learning project, with money from the levy imposed on international telephone calls coming into Jamaica.

Dr Thompson succeeds Colin Campbell, the current minister of information and development who, ironically, made the announcement at yesterday's weekly post- Cabinet briefing at Jamaica House.

Cambell said he had resigned the post after being named a minister, conceding that his work load could not accommodate both positions.

Shortly after being sworn-in as prime minister, Simpson Miller used a Seventh-day Adventist platform - at the Kencot church - to announce a plan to name pastors as chairmen or members of all new state boards.

The announcement set off a firestorm of criticism, but she appeared to have won the support of the church, including the umbrella Jamaica Council of Churches (JCC).

Thompson is the first churchman to be so appointed by the prime minister.

An outstanding educator, Thompson has also served as a director of the Bank of Nova Scotia Jamaica Limited, deputy chairman, Bank of Nova Scotia Building Society, a commissioner on the National Commission on Science & Technology and as a member of the University Council of Jamaica and the Joint Committee for Tertiary Education.

He is a bio-chemist, who has done extensive research in the field of diabetes mellitus.

[niceniss]

Re: pastors to run state boards

is there a link to the article?

[Hopyoneson]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
is there a link to the article?

[/ QUOTE ]
I confess, a mi type it up [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], mi mek up the whole ting.

Observer

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Lawd a gad first pastor appointed, wi in a trouble

[ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

The same money that was ripped off from the Jamaicans and friends of Jamaica living overseas. This is funny if the State can't educate kids sitting on hard benches at school how is it going to be any more successful with so-called E-Learning?

[conscience]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]


Aint that the truth. The thing is, how come people don't understand say it is not right for people to impose them views on others.

Jamaica is trying everything, crime and violence its latest venture. Why not try some GOD!

I believe that we must make a clear speration of church and state but people be real. Politics is in everything, including and not withstanding religion.

Why not put some religion into politics, bring some Human Compassion back to the scene. Bring back some Godly thoughts back to the scene. Only the Devil fight God so much, becareful of becoming a soldier of Lucifer.

What, dem afraid pastor ago have more integrity/dignity, hence, making it more difficult to corrupt him?

Right now Jamaica needs some God. Right now it is God's time to rule Jamaica through His believers, and to uplift and free Jamaica from the Devil's clutches.

God fearing, Christians will love her. Humanitarians will laud her, and God will bless her so that she can lead the people into the light of a new day.

Wake up Jamaica, if you naw fight fi God/right then you a fight fi di Devil/wrong. Embrace your PM, and thank God that at least we have a leader who is quick to declare God's glory and the wonderful works of the Almighty.

When them fight her them only a fight God, cause if she truly believes that God is her guide and her light, her sheperd and her master then there is nothing she will not do to promote HIS love. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]



pastors to run state boards

Portia? Are you on crack? Are we running a theocracy in this country? The state is not a tool to impose your religious beliefs on others or give special treatment to adherents of your religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

[conscience]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks

I am just listening to today's Perkins-On-Line which is talking about this very subject.

Interesting listening.

I think if I was Portia's advisers I would be extremely careful. Pastors are not democratically elected and this is a serious thing to have to consider in the equation. This policy seems to be on the hoof. If some of the things that she has been reported to say in her addresses in the churches are anything to go by - I would be concerned especially in some of the rhetoric.

There needs to be some critical reflection in the midst of the wave of goodwill. I want her to succeed but she might only be as good as her advisers on this particularly instance. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


A pastor, even though not elected, is still a citizen of the community, and may maintain a family, pay taxes, and support the local economy as any other secular citizen.

A pastor is just as qualified to be on any committee that Gov creates as any other person.

Don't Bruce Golding believe in GOD or maybe not? Does he not take his beleifs with him where ever he goes, and doesn't his belief (s) affect his decisions. Isn't that the case for most of us who have beliefs?

The difference with a pastor and Golding is that a pastor is bound to help create a better world for all God's creation. Golding is not bound by anything. He can promise you everything and will not lose any sleep if he does not come through on those promises.

We need people who are true to their words and true to the survival of Jamaica. I don't see a more qualified person to get the truth from than a pastor (granted you have yu few whey wicked).

I do agree that some degree of caution must be taken when approaching these appointments but suggesting and even placing Pastors (God man) on GOV committees is a first step towards healing Jamaica.

I do believe that the religious appointments must be representative of the Jamaican constituency (i.e. Rasta, puckomania, and other indigenious religious groups).

Moreover, I don't think the PM should rely solely on the Pastors to bring Jamaica out of its Crime Coma. Eventhough, I do believe Pastors have a big part to play in redeeming Jamaica. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

[conscience]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
'AYATOLLAH' PORTIA? The Prime Minister and the pastors
published: Sunday | April 9, 2006


WE HAVE a knack in Jamaica for turning every potential solution into a problem. Against the background of unacceptably high levels of corruption, abuse of public funds, a rapid decline in standards of decency and general moral decay, a proposal to involve the clergy on state boards should be greeted with a chorus of approval.

Instead, we have spent the entire week catastrophising and devising conspiracy theories about the Talibanisation of the Jamaican state, with Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller being a kind of female Ayatollah ready to impose Christian Sharia on the nation, and fatwas on those who would dare to disobey. No doubt Prime Minister Simpson Miller would have thought she would have been applauded by the country's elite and the chattering classes (she certainly is by the masses) for seeking to send a significant signal that she was serious about probity and accountability.

MORAL WISDOM

She is not naïve enough to believe that the clergy is the exclusive repository of moral wisdom or the sole guardians of public morality. She is not unaware of the many scandals in the Christian Church both here and abroad, and she must know that there are rascals among the clergy, too. But, it was not unreasonable for her to expect that commentators and others who take an interest in public discourse should see from her proposal to put pastors on state boards that she was making an important symbolic move to indicate a direction, a process, and not a destination. But, alas, it has turned out that she expected too much of those who influence public debate in the country.

Wilmot Perkins began his usual sermon on Monday morning by intoning in solemn terms about the danger of the Prime Minister's proposal. Orville Taylor on Radio Jamaica was adding his screams on the issue. Meanwhile, the Observer, not to be left out, warned in an editorial on Tuesday that "The Prime Minister, we submit, is treading on dangerous ground."

GOVERNANCE WITH RELIGION

The Gleaner was more restrained and sober in its editorial on the same day, but still felt it necessary to make the non sequitur point that "The Prime Minister needs to be careful how closely she aligns governance with religion".

Others have gone back into history to dig up atrocities committed by Christians and Muslims in their Holy Wars, attempts at forced conversions and campaigns against infidels and dissidents. Indeed, countless millions have died because of religious bigotry, hatred and persecution: an undeniable fact of history.

Besides, to this very day we see the terrors of religious extremism and barbarism in the actions of Islamic states and Islamists, and not so long ago we nessed Catholic and Protestant Christians killing one another in Northern Ireland. In addition, being so strongly influenced by the United States, we cannot help importing their own internal debate over the separation of church and state into our discussion of the Simpson Miller proposal. It's a storm in a teacup and much ado about nothing. Let's rationally and dispassionately examine the issue.

First, the concept of the separation of church and state does not mean, in its original articulation, that religion should have no influence in the public square. What it meant and ought to mean is that sectarianism, the elevation of one religion over others and the promotion of state religions, should be forbidden, for this usually involves discrimination and even persecution against secularists and people of other religious faiths.

The Puritans who fled England to establish the New Jerusalem in the United States were fleeing religious persecution and tyranny there. They worked to set up not a state with no religious influence but one which did not have a state religion and which respected freedom of conscience for every human being. There is absolutely no suggestion or indication from Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller that she intends to elevate her Pentecostal-type flavour over other religious expressions.

Indeed, she made her call for Pastors on boards at a Seventh - day Adventist church. And on that same day she gave audience to the spiritual Leader of the Nation of Islam, the Hon Louis Farrakhan. The following day she worshipped with the Pentecostals but on Monday morning she had the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kingston say prayers at Cabinet meeting. In her searing-in speech she called on Jamaicans to join for prayer those who worship on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. You can't be more inclusive than that-for those three days cover all the religions which hold meetings in Jamaica, including the Bahais, the Hindus and the Muslims.

What we should fear is if we had any indication that she was elevating as public policy the sectarian views of any group or even imposing peculiarly Christian dogmas on the society. We have absolutely no indication that.

It is not as though the Prime Minister is going to ban carnival and Fully-Loaded on Sundays, mandate that the plazas start locking on Sundays and decree that all the go-go(exotic) clubs be closed. This will remain in a pluralistic society.

The church is the major institution in what can be called the moral sector. Because of the pressing need to emphasise enabling values and attitudes, the Prime Minister is by the symbolic action of having pastors on boards saying that ethical issues must form part of the decision-making process, just as technical and economic issues are critical.

People ask what technical or board-specific skills the Pastors would have to warrant their being on those boards. They bring a moral sensitivity and an ethical grounding to the discussion of public policy. Because of our general ignorance of philosophy, we assume that the technical, economic and business issues are value and philosophically-neutral. This is nonsense. The view that issues should only be discussed from a technical, economic and narrowly operational way is itself reflecting of a philosophical stance and is not ideologically-neutral. It masquerades as commonsensical, but the truth is, as the postmodernist philosophers insist there is no "view from nowhere", no Archimedean point. As Foucault says, we must unmask this power game disguised as unquestionable truth.

Of course, the Pastor is not the arbiter of morality and probity. You don't have to believe in God or go to church to be ethical and to be a person of probity. Boards should, as a rule, have only people of integrity and rectitude. Pastors should not have to be added for that dimension. But we have become carried away with the literalism of the issue, ignoring the powerful symbolic point which is being made by the proposed appointment of pastors. We are missing the forest for the trees, as we are wont to do in Jamaica.

Let's approach the issue another way: What is the potential harm or danger in the prime Minister's proposal? That religion would have too much influence on the state? You mean one pastor will necessarily turn a whole board into sectarian directions, overturning the civil liberties of the nation? Question: Is the appointment more likely to do more harm than good? Or is it not more likely to have a generally positive effect on public policy?

The PM has said she will involve other religions not just Christianity. But the fact is that aside from Rastafarianism all the other non-Christian religions in Jamaica are not even a blip on the radar. I say that as a journalist who has been covering religion since the 1970s.

Besides, the world religions share certain universalistic values. Indeed, they share common values with even secular humanists. What the Prime Minister is proposing is that public morality -- not specifically Christian morality-is protected by having the majority group in the moral sector in Jamaica included in public policy making. This is admirable and should be supported by all sections of the society, including agnostics and atheists. (Happily, the agnostic Anthony Abrahams has given some excellent arguments in favour of the Prime Minister's proposal).

There are certain public goods which religion can facilitate and the Prime Minister has sagaciously enlisted the majority religion to do so. Excellent.

I myself am thoroughly opposed to religious people's exercising power. Too many religious people are bigoted, prejudiced, close-minded, anti-intellectual, narrow and obscurantist. I would bitterly oppose any Christian party running on a Fundamentalist, Born again platform. These people who are taking direct commands from God can justify all manner of atrocities and evil in the name of God. Remember, in their theodicy God does not need any justification for any action He takes and if they are speaking for God neither do they! I prefer to live in a secular state rather than a Christian, Islamic or any religious state. I cherish the freedoms bequeathed by the Enlightenment.

But what Portia Simpson Miller is proposing does nothing to threaten separation of church and state or pluralism. She is simply seeing to strengthen our economic and social foundations by strengthening the influence of the moral sector. She wants to ensure that public policy is driven by larger ethical concerns, not narrow operational issues. I understand the fears of some of the objectors. But they are imposing somebody's else debate and "issues" on us.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pilot! My God Pilot. You must have a proper job. You brought such balance to the plain. Presenting an authority and his views, great job! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img]

[conscience]

Re: pastors to run state boards

[ QUOTE ]
PJoke [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] gave away Rose Hall that is true, but dont forgot to add Rollins also brought Ritz Carlton and Palmyra condos (some condos starting at 2 million US) to Jamaica which added more credibility to our tourism product and helped bring on the current construction boom in Mo bay and Negril, every grey cloud have a silver lining.

But back to Madamn prime minister, I am adopting a wait and see approach Jamaica inspite of the crime and killings needs support, so if you supporting JA then constructive criticism is always good, where I draw the line is the mean spirited vitriol her many detractors spew without giving alternatives. I am tired of bi-partisan politics, jlp dis pnp dat, Jamaica first is what I am about.

Pastors on state boards or chairman means very little in reality, members of board of directors pass bylaws based on majority of votes, one pastor voting is making people all worried I dont get that. The title is misleading, those pastors wont be running jack, sitting on a board getting a stipend for showing up, being Portia's eyes and ears,..... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Kingston, I personally hope they'll be more effective than just sitting around watching things go wrong and no power to fix it.