I Really Wish JA Could Go the Way of Ukraine

[jah_yout]

I think a lot of smart Jamaicans were involved in the designed the system we have...


..it was an inclusive system, unfortunately few seem to appreciate what we have.... I personally think it was a deliberately done.... Up to the 70s the first external exam most students took was JSC..... To take JSCs, one had to take civics it was cumplusory.....it describes the systems, checks and balances in place....the separations of the institutions of government..it functions....laws, constitution......

Essentially cliched slogans replaced knowledge of the system,which is sophisticated and checks, separation of functionality....

I don't just blame politicians, I blame misunderstood rasta, Rodney and all strands of the leftist nationalism hokum..I recall many young saying they were not going to take exams as it was miseducation, capitalism and or imperialist government policy which esstentailly wanted to indoctrinate with a left bent sorry mobilise the people....

Today u hear the same ones with the cliche educayted on the street....

Funny Rodney and rasta both believes in education....

But their disciples both help subvert the system.....

But what does wahalla know???? I never took it either....I am miseducated....sell out warlock.....

it's easy for certain jamaicans to blame rasta for the country's downfall...
it is lazy & delusional analysis...
rasta has made their share of mistakes but can not be blamed in any way for the current hopelessly corrupt two-headed monster party-politics...
walter rodney was not a factor in any jamaican elections after 1980...
in fact maybe i'm mistaken but to me it seems crime, violence & murder increased in jamaica from 1980 onward...

[blugiant]

so what kind of alternate system you have in mind?

doan ave annee inn mind juss seyinn dat iff jamaicans deem itt nesseesarree jamaicans cood peacefullee cum tiggithar ann do itt

[blugiant]

I think a lot of smart Jamaicans were involved in the designed the system we have...


..it was an inclusive system, unfortunately few seem to appreciate what we have.... I personally think it was a deliberately done.... Up to the 70s the first external exam most students took was JSC..... To take JSCs, one had to take civics it was cumplusory.....it describes the systems, checks and balances in place....the separations of the institutions of government..it functions....laws, constitution......

Essentially cliched slogans replaced knowledge of the system,which is sophisticated and checks, separation of functionality....

I don't just blame politicians, I blame misunderstood rasta, Rodney and all strands of the leftist nationalism hokum..I recall many young saying they were not going to take exams as it was miseducation, capitalism and or imperialist government policy which esstentailly wanted to indoctrinate with a left bent sorry mobilise the people....

Today u hear the same ones with the cliche educayted on the street....

Funny Rodney and rasta both believes in education....

But their disciples both help subvert the system.....

But what does wahalla know???? I never took it either....I am miseducated....sell out warlock.....

dem designed system fe keep blakk peeps pon da battam ann cah rasta ann addar blakks bunn fiyah pon dat racist caste system unnoo a blame rasta.

oww yuh a chatt bout inclusive system widd traight face ann woo yuh tryinn fe fool. realitee iss dat de system dem designed putt powe inn few familee hands. affi cum later dan dat cah mii neva tart school den. exams ar miseducation sintings dat y soo manee aff da moas educated ar sellouts. mii natt cawlinn yuh a sellout juss miseducated bout da politrixx

[Wahalla]

dem designed system fe keep blakk peeps pon da battam ann cah rasta ann addar blakks bunn fiyah pon dat racist caste system unnoo a blame rasta.

oww yuh a chatt bout inclusive system widd traight face ann woo yuh tryinn fe fool. realitee iss dat de system dem designed putt powe inn few familee hands. affi cum later dan dat cah mii neva tart school den. exams ar miseducation sintings dat y soo manee aff da moas educated ar sellouts. mii natt cawlinn yuh a sellout juss miseducated bout da politrixx

Like i said i am a stuipid, miseducated seel out warlock....

What Jamaica has is the right of Haebeus Corpus, the right to be free of discrimination based on race, the right to be free of discrimination based on religion, the right to be free from abuse by the government or government agenecy, rigth agaisnt discriminate search, the right to an education, the right ot health care,the right to ownership of property, the right against illegal search, the right agaisnt discrimination based on formal legalisation of parenthood... these rights were written and approved by black Jamaicans, these can be changed by our parliament who are predominately black....

So how has the system been designed to keep people down ? the system has been abused by those in power to keep peoples rights so they retain power... it is striking that when ever some one highlights the rights that Jamaicans have under the law they are abused.... and the standard miseducation accusation is flaunted...

Gomes JFJ she is an Oyiba, when she pointed out the abuse...In his early interviews Shields pointed out that the police was acting illegally in their stop and search procedures.. He was abused by the police who say he is white he knows nothing (His principal critic was that semi literate butcher / hero of Breaton) , yet quietly a lot of policemen agreed with him...I know u dont want to hear this, but JFLAG has been quoting the rights of Jamaicans.. all aad naueum bu no one listen because of they are gay... but those rights that JFLAG quote are teh rights that all Jamaicans have.. (no i am not advocating gay rights here , as i know will be grabbed on... i am advocating the rights that all Jamaicans are entitled to which JFLAG have been shouting about for their members) no pun intended Rich D!

u know why Tony Brow was burnt to death ? every one claims that it was rival politics, but i have heard a vague roumour that it was he was going to get out because of the failure of procedures and the protection of the law..and he was going to walk free....

There is a two stage justice system in Jamaica, those with the resources to access the system and those without.....

Dudus who IMHO was cruel, brutal criminal was protected from extradition by the application of Jamaican rights to which we are all entitled.. Again so was Zeeks another cruel, brutal criminal... if all Jamaicans had access to the protection of the law to the extent that these people had....

My question is given that we have the rights why are we not more aware of them ? 90 % of veichular stops and searches in Jamaica are illegal,... last week there was a case that the court had where the police acted illegal in the search of a boat for drugs, yet home many houses the same procedures that was used on that boat was used ?????... There are teh checks and balances available, but they are simply not applied

Read the Tivoli gardens raid the catelogue of abuses and laws that the security serives broke... But that was standard operational procedures... Even the use of the military in a policing operations..

Poor people who the PM loves are abused by their lack of access to their rights...

Poor people dont have access to the protection of the law...And I am saying that since the demise of the JSC there has been little systematic education as to the rights and responsiblities enshired in the Jamaican laws, its constitution and its insitutions.. At time we can get glimpses of how the system works, when it is the Zeeks, the Duddus and the rich....u see it in the Tivoli enquirey documents... there are our rights....

No it is path of least resistance to say the system is designed to keep epopel down, rather address and educate people as to how the sytem works... U do realize that if the half the people who are illegally stopped and searched could quote the basic rights to police.. one they would get a beat down but then the police would ulitmately haveto change their tactie

The only right that is not enshired in the Jamaican system is the right to sexual preference ?

And yes I am saying that Rasta has for all its wonderful innovation been a part of the cultural change has invigorated Jamaica, we owe it alot. A deiferetiator, . But part of its mantras is the simplistic "the majority are miseducated"...Ah Babylon system dat...

ironic by Babylon was the first city state to have a codified set of laws protecting its citizens, not the greeks!

Ok what is babylon system ? what are the rastas rights to properties, what are their freedoms to practice their beleifs ? are these protected ? How many rasta children were over the years refused access to education because of locks ???? How many underage school girls are kicked out of schools because they get pregant ? Would it be in their interest to know their rights with the same fervor that they interpret the bible ????? How many illegal fees Jamaicans have to pay ?


Ever been into court and refuse to take an oath on the bible ? I did once... i was thrown back in jail... I was lucky I pointed out to RM my rights on the constitution to refuse to take an oath on the bible.. He quietly dismissed the case.....

There is a very simple solutions.. Teach the system we have, only then can we hope to apply it........as part of the school system teach children what their rights are under the law, as well as their responsibility... do it now and a decade you will reap a change....Basically bring back Civics.... I will add i need an education in this as well.. Dont dismiss what we have as evil, white man system, babylon, keep black people down...

Tommorow I suggest u re write a constitution redesign a system, and i suspect the system you create would look a lot like what Jamaica has but does not apply...

Teh funny thing is that u get to power blu, who will be those in the system, who would run the system....

[jah_yout]

And yes I am saying that Rasta has for all its wonderful innovation been a part of the cultural change has invigorated Jamaica, we owe it alot. A deiferetiator, . But part of its mantras is the simplistic "the majority are miseducated"...Ah Babylon system dat..

.
is that statement untrue?
methinks not...the majority are mis-educated

ironic by Babylon was the first city state to have a codified set of laws protecting its citizens, not the greeks!

"babylon" simply means confusion...it is context..

Ok what is babylon system ?

a rigged system...rigged against the poor mostly "black" masses through hundreds of years of mis-education...

what are the rastas rights to properties, what are their freedoms to practice their beleifs ? are these protected ?

same as any other jamaican citizen with certain limitations...however the history of oppression can not be denied...

How many rasta children were over the years refused access to education because of locks ????

several

How many underage school girls are kicked out of schools because they get pregant ?

several

Would it be in their interest to know their rights with the same fervor that they interpret the bible ?????

yes...but many poor people don't have access to judicial-legal education..

How many illegal fees Jamaicans have to pay ?

several...like in the US

Ever been into court and refuse to take an oath on the bible ? I did once... i was thrown back in jail... I was lucky I pointed out to RM my rights on the constitution to refuse to take an oath on the bible.. He quietly dismissed the case.....

good stuff..

There is a very simple solutions.. Teach the system we have, only then can we hope to apply it......

criminal gangs don't respect men's laws----and usually are more present in the community than the police or political officials...

..

as part of the school system teach children what their rights are under the law, as well as their responsibility... do it now and a decade you will reap a change..

.

so why is the gov't not doing it?
.

Basically bring back Civics.... I will add i need an education in this as well.. Dont dismiss what we have as evil, white man system, babylon, keep black people down...

this is too simplistic...people can recognize when they are learning worthwhile things...history & politics class is different from machine-shop or wood-working or music class...to the extent that gov't schools mis-educate people, there will be blowback...
it is not just ignorant rasta people...even the great uncle sam currently has krappi gov't schools & education crises...home-schooling is on the rise...
corrupt gov'ts yield corrupt results...

Tommorow I suggest u re write a constitution redesign a system, and i suspect the system you create would look a lot like what Jamaica has but does not apply...

constitution alone does not a country make...
a cultural revolution is needed as well as visionary leadership...currently unavailable in JA..

Teh funny thing is that u get to power blu, who will be those in the system, who would run the system....

well that is the thing----the dilemma; and the reason the common people mostly stay oppressed throughout the globe...
power tries to hold on to power...the current 2-party system has a duopoly & stranglehold on the buttons of power...but things will eventually come to bump...

[blugiant]

Like i said i am a stuipid, miseducated seel out warlock....

What Jamaica has is the right of Haebeus Corpus, the right to be free of discrimination based on race, the right to be free of discrimination based on religion, the right to be free from abuse by the government or government agenecy, rigth agaisnt discriminate search, the right to an education, the right ot health care,the right to ownership of property, the right against illegal search, the right agaisnt discrimination based on formal legalisation of parenthood... these rights were written and approved by black Jamaicans, these can be changed by our parliament who are predominately black....

So how has the system been designed to keep people down ? the system has been abused by those in power to keep peoples rights so they retain power... it is striking that when ever some one highlights the rights that Jamaicans have under the law they are abused.... and the standard miseducation accusation is flaunted...

doan tink yuh stupid butt mii agree widd yuh bout miseducated.

yuh wrote a latt ann mii doan ave da thyme rite now fe break itt awl dunn.

mii will juss sey rasta ann da historee aff rasta inn ja as mii anwsar to yuh argument.

[Wahalla]

The Livity case demonstrates what is available to curb the power of the state, and the reason why it is out of reach...

Lawyers to make submissions in 'Livity' case

BY PAUL HENRY Co-ordinator - Crime/Court Desk [email protected]
Wednesday, March 05, 2014

A section of the Horizon Adult Remand Centre on Spanish Town Road, where Leighton ‘Livity’ Coke was being held.
THE evidential phase of the challenge brought by Leighton 'Livity' Coke, the brother of former Tivoli Gardens don Christopher 'Dudus' Coke, over the legality of soldiers manning sections of Horizon Adult Remand Centre on Spanish Town Road, Kingston concluded in the Supreme Court yesterday.
The attorneys in the matter are now to make written submissions on April 2.
Coke — who had been an inmate at Horizon shortly after the Tivoli Gardens operation of 2010, to apprehend his brother and subdue gunmen, until 2012 when he was acquitted of gun-related charges — had argued that it's illegal for Jamaica Defence Force (JDF) soldiers to man the facility without the consent of the Defence Board or the prime minister.
The action forms part of a suit filed by Coke seeking compensation for allegedly being beaten and injured at the hands of soldiers in February 2012 in the maximum security facility. He was being held on allegations that he had fired at members of the security forces but was freed last year in the High Court Division of the Gun Court.
Named as defendants in the suit filed by attorneys Carolyn Reid-Cameron and Chukwuemeka Cameron are the commissioner of corrections, the chief of defence staff, the Ministry of National Security and the attorney general.
Coke sought several declarations, including that on a "true and proper interpretation of sections 5 and 9 of the Defence Act", the chief of defence staff does not have the power to deploy members of the JDF to aid in the manning of the remand centre in question without the direction of the Defence Board or the prime minister; that in doing so the chief of defence staff acted ultra vires; that the commissioner of corrections acted ultra vires and was in breach of section 5 of the Defence Act when he appointed members of the JDF as authorised persons to act as correctional officers at the facility.
Coke also asked the court for an award for "vindicatory damages to reflect the sense of public outrage, emphasise the importance of the right to life and the right not to be subjected to torture or to inhumane and degrading treatment and to deter further breaches".
The claimant also asked for an award of compensation for the "distress, pain and suffering..." over his period of incarceration "flowing from the torture and inhumane treatment meted out by the respondents".

[RichD]

there is increasing discussion here in Canada about the remedies of law becoming out of reach for the average citizen

[Wahalla]

I also noticed this... imagine two reggae singer settled this in the babylon system....Could tehre be merit, to settle a dispute without a weapon or a murder ????????????

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Supreme-Court-rules-against-Tony-Rebel-in-copyright-suit_16189398

AWARD-winning reggae artiste Tony Rebel yesterday failed to have the Supreme Court throw out a multimillion-dollar copyright suit brought against him by music composer Jah Wayne.
The application was made by veteran attorney Garth McBean before Justice Kirk Anderson, a day after Jah Wayne testified under cross-examination that he hadn't read his witness statement before signing to it.
During the application, McBean asked Anderson to strike out the case, submitting that the admission was in breach of the Civil Procedure Rules and that it is tantamount to deceiving the court.
At the same time, the attorney submitted that if the court wasn't mindful to strike out the matter an alternative would be to strike out the evidence given by the witness, up to this point, and bar him from giving further evidence in the matter.
But relying on the case Bryan vs Harris, attorney Catherine Minto — counsel for Jah Wayne — countered that the statement should be read to the witness in court and make him certify as true the parts of the statements he agrees with.
In the end, Anderson sided with Jah Wayne and the exercise was done as requested by Minto. At the same time, Anderson awarded costs against Jah Wayne for the exercise, noting that it was his fault why the court had to embark upon the procedure.
Jah Wayne, whose real name is Wayne Lattibeaudiere, is suing Tony Rebel and his company Flame Production Incorporation Limited for breach of copyright in relation to the composition of the rhythm Going Home that was released by Tony Rebel under the title La La Bella. One of the songs recorded on the rhythm is Ghetto People Song performed by Tony Rebel, whose real name is Patrick Anthony Barrett. He's also suing for rights for the African rhythm.
He's contending that he composed the rhythm in 1992 and that Tony Rebel caused it to be published without crediting him. He's asking the court to rule that he is the composer and owner. He said Tony Rebel promised him that he would be credited as composer of the rhythm, but said that the artiste started claiming to be the composer.
He said he's been deprived of royalties.
Yesterday, cross-examination of Jah Wayne was scheduled to continue but was postponed until tomorrow to facilitate another witness who complained about having a difficulty coming to court.

[jah_yout]

I also noticed this... imagine two reggae singer settled this in the babylon system....Could tehre be merit, to settle a dispute without a weapon or a murder ????????????

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Supreme-Court-rules-against-Tony-Rebel-in-copyright-suit_16189398

.

you over-simplify rasta way too much...
you are not giving people enough credit...in fact you are far more likely to hear of non-rastas (bawlheads) engaging in violence & extra-judicial shenanigans...

your fixation on rasta as a driver of jamaican under-development is way off base

[Wahalla]

you over-simplify rasta way too much...
you are not giving people enough credit...in fact you are far more likely to hear of non-rastas (bawlheads) engaging in violence & extra-judicial shenanigans...

your fixation on rasta as a driver of jamaican under-development is way off base

Two Jamaican Reggae singers using the systems in place to settle a intellectual property dispute.... I mentioned nothing of rasta here, u did...... ..That they made use of a mechanism to settle a dispute is illuminating..Compare this to the threats and verbal insults traded in other cases. (The Bunny Wailer- Bob Marley estate / Chris Blackwell or Vibz Cartel)...The fact that the dispute took 22 years to get this far is hardly simple.....

[Wahalla]

there is increasing discussion here in Canada about the remedies of law becoming out of reach for the average citizen

seriouly was it ever in the reach of the average citzen in Canada ? I ask not to insult..... but rather has expectations risen?..


My take is that in Jamaican access to our rights is passive....It needs to active...For it tto be active citzens has to know what their rights are when they come into contact with the state. But the institutions have to know their limitations. Try pay tax was always fun... try register a buisness.. Try get health care and the people with the whip hand are down right unhelpful in my experience if u dont know some one....Try complaining is impossible....

. A citzen has the right not to be stopped and searched without cause by teh police.... The police ignore that right and stop and search any way at radom .... it should be the other way round, each interaction by the police ie the state has to be justified.... But it brings into focus the point above about the access to not merely to remedies against the state, but the state institutions has to evolve to actively protect the citzens..


We cannot have a discussion on rigths without knowing what our rights actually are... our rights from both cases are myriad, they are simply not being applied....

[jah_yout]

Two Jamaican Reggae singers using the systems in place to settle a intellectual property dispute.... I mentioned nothing of rasta here, u did...... ..That they made use of a mechanism to settle a dispute is illuminating..Compare this to the threats and verbal insults traded in other cases. (The Bunny Wailer- Bob Marley estate / Chris Blackwell or Vibz Cartel)...The fact that the dispute took 22 years to get this far is hardly simple.....

mentioning reggae & the rastafarian singer tony rebel along with earlier comments made me go there...

still ukraine has ethnic as well as geo-political ramifications...and a situation turned violent..

you seem to hold up the jamaican state as some kind of example but just the other day the jamaican state murdered a hundred people in tivoli gardens...
perhaps the jamaican people know how the state would react to a mass revolt or movement or are so demoralized by decades of mis-rule that they are too weak to revolt against whatever the beast gives them...

[blugiant]

there is increasing discussion here in Canada about the remedies of law becoming out of reach for the average citizen

look wat appen to garvey ann oww jamaica injustice system impoverished imm ann gave imm intellectual propertee rite too oyinbo ann

[Wahalla]

mentioning reggae & the rastafarian singer tony rebel along with earlier comments made me go there...

em...

Or as equally irrelevant is that the nephew of a deputy prime minister Seymour Mullings, Tony Rebel is using the system to exploit the ghetto youth.... A person connected to the dominat poltical class using the system....