did busta mash up jamaica?

[Tuff Gong]

I think this is what mashed up Jamaica

Funny because Comrades claim Jamaica not mash up. But to make a false impression stick suddenly Jamaica mash up?
Explain how dropping out of the Federation mash up Jamaica when Jamaica went to even greater economic success post-federation?

[Tropicana]

I think this is relevant to the discussion. Jamaica has natural resources. Barbados doesn't yet the currency of Barbados is much stronger than Jamaica's currency, the literary rate in Barbados is one of the highest in the world, the transporation system in Barbados runs smoothly, the transportation system in Jamaica is a disaster. Ditto for roads,

I thin this is an interesting discussion of GDP and the contrasts:

There is a tape and this is the transcript

Now, let's take a case history of sorts, comparing a country that ran up big debts and a country that did not. Each country is a Caribbean island - Jamaica and Barbados. Alex Blumberg, of our Planet Money team, visited both. He found the consequences in a change of GDP per capita - gross domestic product. That's the total amount of goods and services produced in a country divided by the country's population. That affected other measures, like reading, writing and arithmetic.ALEX BLUMBERG: I went to two elementary schools - one in Jamaica and one in Barbados, both in working class, urban neighborhoods. Jamaica and Barbados are both former British colonies, both parliamentary democracies. But the Jamaican government made a bunch of decisions after independence that weighed it down with debt. As a consequence, its economy barely grew, and now its GDP per capita is a third of what it is in Barbados. And that difference has huge implications in a place like this.
BLUMBERG: (Foreign language spoken)
BLUMBERG: I'm in a classroom in Allman Town Elementary School in Kingston, Jamaica, standing next to a bunch of boys who high five every time they get a right answer on a multiple-choice health quiz. The principal, Kandi-Lee Crooks- Smith, is giving me a tour, and my first hint of how GDP affects the lives of kids.
A low GDP means governments don't have as much tax revenue, which means they can't spend very much on their schools. In Allman Town, Crooks-Smith has to find creative ways to pay for bare essentials - extra toilet paper, cleaning supplies, even the whiteboard at the front of this classroom.
BLUMBERG: The whiteboard was actually provided by the teacher himself because the school can't afford to change the chalkboards.
BLUMBERG: GDP affects the lives of kids here in another way as well. In Jamaica, every sixth grader takes a test, and the test determines where you go to high school. If you do well in the test, you go to a decent school, which prepares you for college and a professional job. But if you don't score near the top on this test, you go to something called a non-traditional high school, where there are far fewer resources.
BLUMBERG: The odds are more against them.
BLUMBERG: And what does that mean when the odds are - what does that mean? They graduate and...
BLUMBERG: For most of them in the non-traditional high schools, you have a lot of behavioral problems, and I think most of the students just basically give up.
BLUMBERG: If you graduate from one of these schools, your options are limited to low-paying non-skilled work. You might drop out of the labor force entirely and find work in the informal economy - drugs, gangs, simply selling stuff on the side of the road. I talked to the Jamaican Minister of Education, who told me the problem is that there simply aren't enough high schools in Jamaica.
He figures he needs another 150 to meet the demand, which would take about a billion dollars U.S. to build - a billion dollars that Jamaica, with its low GDP per capita, does not have. I asked Kandi-Lee Crooks-Smith, the principal, if the government did have the money to give her, what would she do with it?
BLUMBERG: I have hired a reading teacher, not the American history either, but I'm thinking if I could get just one extra person every classroom to focus on the reading alone, I think we would achieve way more than what we're doing right now.
BLUMBERG: Now, let's head to Barbados, specifically the Lawrence T. Gay Primary School in the largest city in Barbados, Bridgetown. The principal here, Beverly Paris, walks me around from classroom to classroom. Her school, like the school in Jamaica, has lots of bright colors, lots of shapes cut from construction paper on the walls. But the Barbados government, because of the higher GDP, has access to a lot more money, which means more resources and classrooms like the one Beverly Paris is showing me.
BLUMBERG: Television on the wall and so and so.
BLUMBERG: Television is like a little - it's like a server closet.
BLUMBERG: Yes. Multimedia projectors, video cameras here, the whole works.
BLUMBERG: And that's funded by the minister...
BLUMBERG: (Unintelligible).
BLUMBERG: So in terms of what you wish you had versus what you actually have, it's not that big a difference, right?
BLUMBERG: Not really. As I said, in our class (unintelligible) we should accomplish.
BLUMBERG: In Barbados, almost every sixth grader can read. In Jamaica, a quarter can't. The kids are just as bright, the teachers as hardworking. The only difference is one little statistic.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124346527

[mountaingal]

Really how did you come to that?
Where is the evidence?

it is anecdotal.

[Tropicana]

I was told this story but this is the first I have seen it documented in writing. Was he really this ignorant?

Sir Alexander Bustamante ('Busta' or 'Chief') was a most idiosyncratic character. His minimalist exposure to formal education is legendary and everyone knows the story, probably apocryphal, about his point-counterpoint exchange from the political platform intended to highlight benefits for voters. "Who give you jobs?" Busta asked the excited pro-JLP crowd. "You, Chief!" came the ready reply."Who give you bread?" he continued. "You, Chief!" was the Pavlovian response. Emboldened, he emphasised, "B-R-E-D, bread?" "You, Chief." By this time, the crowd was whipped into frenzied caricatures of the popular political anthem:
"We will follow Bustamante;
we will follow Bustamante;
we will follow Bustamante.
We will follow Bustamante 'til
we die!"
At this point in the proceedings, Donald Sangster is alleged to have whispered in Busta's ear, "Yu leave out the 'a', Chief." Without pause, Busta is reported to have corrected himself, "B-R-E-D-A, bread?" to which the crowd roared, "You, Chief!"

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120708/focus/focus7.html

I wonder if there are any videos with him or NWM.

[Tuff Gong]

it is anecdotal.

Please present it?

[Tuff Gong]

I was told this story but this is the first I have seen it documented in writing. Was he really this ignorant?

This is the same man that used to write letters to the editor of the Gleaner before he got famous, loaned money, led a workers movement, formed a political party and guided Jamaica through successful periods of governance.
I guess he was that ignorant?

[Wahalla]

so wey yuh natt seyinn? dat de economic policies busta pushed dat seaga carried out benefitted poor jamaicans

neva barned yet butt busta policies impoverish jamaicans yuh like da policies dat norman pushed. dem two cousins set ja pon a downward spiral. two cousin woo ovatand da politrixx aff separate ann rule

mii bunn fiyah pon awl ism even dough mii bigg upp afrikkan socialisn ann afrikkan capitalism

During Busta and norman time as leaders of Jamaica the economy grew, it is a simple fact.. there was social improvements and there were structural changes needed... since 72 my impression is that economically our productivity has stagnated, and we have performed a slow act of economic cannibalism..... Our governments have simply been about wealth distribution rather than creating an environment for value creation....

(funny enough it took forty years for the creative power of our artists to be even acknowledged as a economic driver imagine how much more value we could have created had they had formal music training in schools? As much as i dislike Vuibz Cartel and Jah Cure I cannot but acknowledge that they have done more for weath creation and net inflow of actual mony into Jamaica.. they are wealth creators)

I wont divert on a discussion on post colonial African development economic system as that is a whole other subject.... Currently i am reading a book by an African who agrees with my assessment on African political and economic development, something that i have repeatedly written on here and been called a sell out for not subscribing to the black yanki nationalist simplistic assessment of identity and economics! .. Basically while reading this book i actually began to re appreciate Jamaican political institutions as well Busta and Seaga role in Jamaica in a whole different light...both men i have a dislike of.. but politically i believe that their acts are what will save Jamaica in the long run.. Seaga for not creating a one party state when he could have in 1983 or consolidating more power into the office of the PM .... and Busta for the inadvertent creation of the an loyal opposition....

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1116550.Africa_Betrayed

[Wahalla]

This is the same man that used to write letters to the editor of the Gleaner before he got famous, loaned money, led a workers movement, formed a political party and guided Jamaica through successful periods of governance.
I guess he was that ignorant?

wasnt there a roumour that it was St Grant who wrote his letters to the editor....

[RichD]

I was told this story but this is the first I have seen it documented in writing. Was he really this ignorant?

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120708/focus/focus7.html

I wonder if there are any videos with him or NWM.

it in the gleaner so it must be true ..even though they qualify it as being "apocryphal"

[mountaingal]

Please present it?

anecdotally, the belief that white men were better leaders was a sentiment that ran in my family - in the rural area, can't speak for my town relatives - and was expressed in our local institutions, particularly church. sociology and history would provide a rationale for why that belief would persist. i often wonder that if busta were a dark-skinned man, same level of experience and perceived lack of sophistication, whether jamaicans would have accepted him the way they did.

[RichD]

anecdotally, the belief that white men were better leaders was a sentiment that ran in my family - in the rural area, can't speak for my town relatives - and was expressed in our local institutions, particularly church. sociology and history would provide a rationale for why that belief would persist. i often wonder that if busta were a dark-skinned man, same level of experience and perceived lack of sophistication, whether jamaicans would have accepted him the way they did.

l


well dem hug up sista P ...but maybe is a different time

[Wahalla]

anecdotally, the belief that white men were better leaders was a sentiment that ran in my family - in the rural area, can't speak for my town relatives - and was expressed in our local institutions, particularly church. sociology and history would provide a rationale for why that belief would persist. i often wonder that if busta were a dark-skinned man, same level of experience and perceived lack of sophistication, whether jamaicans would have accepted him the way they did.

Yet Busta lost an election to Norman.....Was Busta whiter than Norman ? it may have been vocalised and I have seen an heard it, but pale candidates lost to blacker candidates at the ballot box at numerous elections. (Tavares Finson did not make it as a major force in Jamaican poltics) .. i really dont know....Norman Manley was seen more sophisticated and cultured..

odd then Busta wife was darker and Norman wife was paler... So Lady Busta would be a ******* play ting and Norman Manley would be a sell out on the Jamaicans.com

I actually beleive that Busta contribution has been devalued more and more as years have gone by... because he was of a different environment and colour was not the sole factor of his popularity.... Also he was not a ideologist... He did have in his leadership alot of exceptional individuals.. Sangster, Lightbourne are two that spring to mind...

Compare our Prime Ministers and Cheif Ministes administration for their contribution and i think that Busta was one of our top 3... Norman, Busta, Shearer

[Wahalla]

l


well dem hug up sista P ...but maybe is a different time

Have u ever heard her go off script.. compare her to Busta who could deflect and seemed tio have a beeter command of facts than sister P.....(i still say her acceptance speech as prime minister was the worst ever speech i heard!)

[RichD]

Have u ever heard her go off script.. compare her to Busta who could deflect and seemed tio have a beeter command of facts than sister P.....(i still say her acceptance speech as prime minister was the worst ever speech i heard!)

the first time or the second time?

i thought the first time she hit some good points and i was hopeful

[Wahalla]

the first time or the second time?

i thought the first time she hit some good points and i was hopeful

The seacond time....