black americans versus immigrants

[blugiant]

Are you saying that Jamaicans and other Caribbean immigrants are better educated than African Americans?

yes

doan figgit dat da furst wave aff caribbean immigrants inn merikka were more educated dan even oyinbo merikkans. so iff bye education yuh meen more formallee miseducated den da anwsar iss yess. mii still tryinn fe figgar out iff more formall miseducation iss wurst dan less formall misedumakkkayshan

itt da secand generation aff caribbean immigrants woo educational level revert to da tandards aff blakk mericans cah aff da merikkkan miseducation system

[Tropicana]

yes

Thank you for proving my point.

I rest my case about onoo snooty attitudes.

[Tropicana]

I guess she is just making this stuff up too.

[Black] West Indian and African-American Tension: My Two Cents

Lately, I’ve been thinking about the tension that exists between Black West Indian immigrants and African-Americans. I started thinking about this subject after reading Moving Back to Jamaica’s blog and finding myself in a heated debate with a fellow Jamaican on a message board. As a Jamerican, I feel like I’m the rope in a game of tug-o-war. I’ve always argued that African-Americans and West Indians have far more in common than some people like to acknowledge or admit. Yes, there are differences in culture, language, and sometimes in perspective but in the end we’re both Black people coming from a legacy of slavery. In America we are both affected by the sting of racism.

People (more pointedly, African-Americans) would ask me if Jamaicans lived in trees and wore grass skirts. I remember being called a “West Indian monkey” or “coconut.” People cracked jokes about my family members having three jobs (courtesy of the ‘In Living Color’ skits.) In fact, I was told that we came over here and took jobs from the African-Americans who needed them. To add insult to the injury, we behaved as if we were better than other Black people. (A friend of my family actually went into a rage when we were discussing the subject. He eventually told me to ‘go back to where I come from.’) I can’t count the amount of times I’ve listened to African-American women characterize Jamaican and other West Indian men as crazy, abusive, possessive and backwards. Similarly, I’ve heard African-American men say that Jamaican and other West Indian women are psycho, lustful, and the type you need to keep your eye on since they (we) practice voodoo.
By the same token, some of the Jamaican/West Indian family and friends I was around had their own thoughts. I was told that African-Americans were criminals. You had to be careful when around “them.” Rather than work hard and invest in their (our) communities, they (we) were content to live on welfare. They (we) blamed racism for their condition when it was clear all they really needed to do was sacrifice and work hard for what they wanted. Pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Some of us had come here with nothing but we were making a living, why couldn’t they? I was warned away from African-American men who would surely impregnate me and run away, leaving me with a baby to care for on my own.

Moving to South Florida didn’t help my predicament at all. The tension between West Indian immigrants and African-Americans down there was worse than anything I’d seen in the Midwest. If I ever felt like I had to choose between my two cultures it was then. Since I had reconnected with my Caribbean identity, it was only fitting that I chose to identify myself as Jamaican instead of African-American. (If you had met me during that time, you’d swear I’d just stepped off the plane from Jamaica. You’d never guess I had African-American family or that I’d previously passed as African-American).

I realized how much insensitivity there was towards the plight of African-American people. I remember having lunch with a few of my co-workers who were from Latin America and the Caribbean. Somehow we started discussing race. Pretty much everyone agreed that African-Americans were “too sensitive” when it came to the subject. They wondered why African-Americans couldn’t simply “get over it”. We were in a new age where opportunity was abundant. Instead of complaining, African-Americans needed to apply their energy towards a career or an education and stop using race as a crutch. I quickly figured out the ethnic/racial hierarchy in South Florida. It went like this: White Americans (on top), White Latinos (starting with Cubans) followed next, Black Latinos and other Caribbean Blacks (minus Haitians) were after that, followed by African-Americans and lastly Haitians.
Yes, I was enjoying the status of being a West Indian but my soul was troubled. I was bothered by the way people freely promoted stereotypes about African-American people or spoke about them (us) as if they (we) were the most depraved people on the earth. Close friends of mine made comments about not wanting to be associated with “those people” and said they’d be upset if their children ever brought home someone who is African-American. I saw how some friends of mine did everything they could to distinguish themselves from African-Americans (even if it meant trying to hold on to their Caribbean accent with all their might.) The very same people never seemed to recognize the achievements of African-Americans locally or nationally. Most of the West Indians I was around clung to their view of African-Americans as ghetto, criminal, violent and lazy. West Indians who engaged in drug trafficking or violence were dismissed as exceptions to the rule.

http://jamericanmuslimah.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/black-west-indian-and-african-american-tension-my-two-cents/

[Tropicana]

I guess she is just imagining it too.....just listen to the sterotypes coming out of her mouth....she got them from somewhere.

[kia027]

Oh boy talk about being in denial but then I would expect no less from you.

Trust me I have been to hotels and fast food places in Canada and the USA. Other than some of the young people with part-time jobs, the Jamaicans I see working there in housekeeping, banquets, the kitchen, etc. are not educated.

Some hotels even bring in seasonal workers form Jamaica and Haiti. I bet they are paid less than Americans.

I travelled back to Canada with a group of farm workers. They weren't educated either but some of them were really bright. Had some great conversations. They were well dressed and REALLY well groomed.

You will note I was responding to lonewolfs comment regarding how immigrants will finance their education. Your response is of no value to the discussion on who pays for foreign workers education.

And this benefits the US and its citizens...how? It's obvious that the education will benefit the foreign worker, but who pays for the foreign workers education? And, if it's the US citizen, why should we pay for someone's education?

Foreign people immigrating to the US are better educated at the elementary/Secondary level. They come here for tertiary education and work odd jobs to pay for their tuition themselves.

[kia027]

Yeah that's why Caribbean people have set up their own communities rather than living in African American communities. This is not saying that some don't inter-marry or live near each other but you do find pockets fo Caribbean people living apart.

In the New York Metro area, Caribbean peoples have always lived in African American neighborhoods. There is rarely any neighborhood in the NYC metro area that is strictly Caribbean. There will be of course a higher concentration because family groups tend to live close to one another.

Flatbush, Canarsie, Bed Stuy, Queens Village, St Albans, Laurelton, Freeport, Hempstead,Harlem, da Bronx, New Rochelle, Mt Vernon , Patterson, Asbury Park.....

[Tropicana]

That is not what I saw on Long Island.

[Tropicana]

You will note I was responding to lonewolfs comment regarding how immigrants will finance their education. Your response is of no value to the discussion on who pays for foreign workers education.

Clearly I was not contributing to that discussion. I can't even see lornwolf's comments so why would I be seeking to add value to them.

[franksterr]

On this one the lion's share of the blame belongs with the Jamaicans and other Caribbean people.

There is plenty of blame to go around.....but then that is counterproductive - why not focus on the positive, like the good things we both are doing.

“The search for a scapegoat is the easiest of all hunting expeditions.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

[lonewolf]

Foreign people immigrating to the US are better educated at the elementary/Secondary level. They come here for tertiary education and work odd jobs to pay for their tuition themselves.

Ok, if that's the case, but what I see in my area is an Latino population that is uneducated, barely speaks any english (if any at all) and works at the minimum wage or maybe less? The Latinos that work for less than minimum wage, do so under a ram rod type of Latino boss (mainly construction jobs). The Latino boss is bilingual, and pays cash to his employees, allowing them to skirt paying taxes, social etc...I've seen it first hand.

I needed a new roof for my home. Hired a well known experienced company. The day of construction a crew of Latinos showed up to install my new roof, much to my surprise. Only one spoke english (Latino boss) and he paid them all in cash out of his pocket when the job was complete...and the Social services in my county have Latino women in line every moring with children in tow for medical treatment and other freebies.

These immigrants are keeping wages low for the average American worker and taking jobs away from Americans both black and white.

And, the new poor unemployed is the 50 to 60 yr old person that has lost their job due to the recession, and can't find work because of age discrimination...A friend of mine (white female 60 yrs old) is delivering pizzas to make ends meet. She was in sales distribution for over 30yrs. She can't find work. They say she is over qualified for most jobs she applies for. She says it's her age...I believe she is right.

Sorry for the ramble...many things come to mind when discussing these issues.

[lonewolf]

One of the tenets of capitalism is the supply of abundant cheap labor. Billionaires have long pressured the Republican party in the U.S. to open its borders so that this supply will replace more expensive labor. In some cases, such as what happened at the world's largest pork processing plant in North Carolina, companies actively encourage divisions among its employees along race and cultural lines.

That's an excellent point and spot on.

[RichD]

you forget I used to work extensively in the Jamaican and Caribbean communities so I know of what I speak

how long ago was that?

what is your experience with more recent immigrants (last 10-12 years)?

[Tropicana]

There is plenty of blame to go around.....but then that is counterproductive - why not focus on the positive, like the good things we both are doing.

“The search for a scapegoat is the easiest of all hunting expeditions.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

Meaning ignore issues, pretend they don't exist and they will go away?

[Tropicana]

how long ago was that?

what is your experience with more recent immigrants (last 10-12 years)?

I think I have my finger much more on the pulse of the community than you who hangs out in your enclave with your golf buddies. Take a visit to Jane-Finch, Regent Park or Etobicoke's Saint James Town and then come talk to me about all the highly educated immigrants.

Yes our community has some highly educated members but we also have some significant problems with some (like you) seem intent on shoving under the rug.

I guess over the years you've missed these news reports:

- 2002 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/race...s-highest.html

- 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...article4317767

- 2 flippin days ago - 50 arrested in Toronto raids http://www.torontosun.com/2014/05/28...across-toronto

This is nothing new. Over the years I have battled those who want to shove the communities problems under the rug and focus only on the positives. As a result the situation continues to deteriorate.

[RichD]

I think I have my finger much more on the pulse of the community than you who hangs out in your enclave with your golf buddies. Take a visit to Jane-Finch, Regent Park or Etobicoke's Saint James Town and then come talk to me about all the highly educated immigrants.

Yes our community has some highly educated members but we also have some significant problems with some (like you) seem intent on shoving under the rug.

I guess over the years you've missed these news reports:

- 2002 http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/race...s-highest.html

- 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...article4317767

- 2 flippin days ago - 50 arrested in Toronto raids http://www.torontosun.com/2014/05/28...across-toronto

This is nothing new. Over the years I have battled those who want to shove the communities problems under the rug and focus only on the positives. As a result the situation continues to deteriorate.

ok