Not white enough

[mountaingal]

Re: Not white enough

not in about 20 years...

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you see what i mean about being able to see opportunities.

You are jumping to many conclusions. The opportunity is to put it on an account and let it grow for years to come.
i am not saying that the woman is racist, again i gave enough background info which you chose to ignore to come to that conclusion. probably might not have television living in those parts and only see bilboard of black kids hungry and needy. They go as far as to put mixed kids on the posters to probably to get those white grandparents who have them. I do believe that she is acting on some stereotype plus misjudging the context. </div></div>
I would not say I am jumping to any conclusions having taken the time to read what you have written before I replied.
So you are not making the claim that she is racist:

but the title of the Topic is:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not white enough</div></div>

You are only making the argument that she sees you and your daughter of lesser value because she is equating you with what she has come to believe is the lot of all Africans living in the country. You felt demeaned by this obvious characterization, enough to want to take the cash put it in a bank, where hopefully it will accrue interests substantial enough to be of some future benefit.

I get it...I think! </div></div>

No you dont and that the trails after you. one whole page? I

You might be taking time to read but certainly not making proper connections.
The title refers to white people who go out of their way to fit their own wrong stereotype of themselves. I take it that forking up this amount is an opportunity to show that she can give and is one of them. It is about race the whole of it. What is 'racist'?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are only making the argument that she sees you and your daughter of lesser value because she is equating you with what she has come to believe is the lot of all Africans living in the country.</div></div>
Is you say that Lesser value to who? That is not my standpoint, wrong context or cultural differences and even similarities maybe.
She might have done so at the point of giving but definitely was not sure of it before. Again, hence the topic. It is a fact that refugees are the only black people they see in that county, not country.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You felt demeaned by this obvious characterization,enough to want to take the cash put it in a bank, where hopefully it will accrue interests substantial enough to be of some future benefit.</div></div>
How you cook up this one? It is already of benefit because it found some use for itself. I do have mixed feelings about people stupidly thinking that I am African but I also understand it and that is lack of knowledge. Plenty even admit to being poor in Geography in school.

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diabolical_Tanya</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DotCom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You are only making the argument that she sees you and your daughter of lesser value because she is equating you with what she has come to believe is the lot of all Africans living in the country. You felt demeaned by this obvious characterization, enough to want to take the cash put it in a bank, where hopefully it will accrue interests substantial enough to be of some future benefit.

I get it...I think! </div></div>

Well Tuff, that about sums it up.



This story look like somebody just looking to argue bout a made up situation. How ridiculous. </div></div>


theory confirmed </div></div>

I didn't see DotComs original post. But I must say so much entertainment and this no TV.
So now this is make up story eh? Interesting!

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

Gone through the thread again it even looked like some things add on to. Because of its length I missed out seeing some comments before
Now I was being amused by this woman's ignorance and found it funny to tell here. Now even more amusing and or irritating is this thread. I can understand this woman, I see it as a white on white thing that might have led her into this. But what I have no tolerance for if the same kind of ignorance is coming from black people.
Here are the highlights of this thread after the amazing turn on page 2.


&gt;You should not have accepted the money if you felt that way.

&gt;You could leave the country if you feel this is going to be repeated and you will be out raged by it.

&gt;You could put yourself in a position where you could work to bring and overstanding to the Whites on what Black is and the Blacks to help them to accept their lot in life, (whatever it is), eg. Don't try to keep up with the Jones' by amassing huge caboodles of debt.


I didnt even see this example, probably because it was unexpected, but who are the Jones'? Now I do vent my opinion about black people and even agree with the KKK on some issues and some a wa me see in a this thread are my motives. I dont know why they continue to maintain a black identity when black people seem to have nothing better to do than to attempt to pull them own down? I hate black racism more than I do white racism towards black. If me racist a that Maybe dem na notice that when you just jump up and put over somebody inferior because he is black you a put down yourself.
This woman saw that I was black, this place is remote, Africans are all they know. But pan de board? You mean me text portray that person you are painting? Anyhow,


&gt;She did accept the handout but was so affected by it to post it here.

&gt;My thinking is if it has affected her that much, she should have properly refused it.

&gt;If this is not the first time that it has happened and she thinks she and her daughter are in danger of being assaulted by the kindness of white folks then move.

&gt;If she thinks she was getting these offers because she and her daughter were not white enough then bleach.

&gt;She came her for answers she is getting them.

I do hope it is a joke about the bleach. But I am not surprised I used to think TuffGong was a fustrated woman.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am willing to accept all the above, what I am offering (or think I am offering) is advice on how to escape or deal with the vagaries of living in a racist country where the typical black person is considered to be an African, who is poor and need spare change (since it has obviously affected her to the point where she gives blow by blow accounts from time to time.).
Maybe she should dress better when she goes out in public. I am not making a value judgment on her character but maybe her and her daughter’s costumes might give rise to folks believing that they fit the stereotype.
</div></div>
Can you believe the liberties in this? and I didnt see this just a one line probable plenty added after.
How to deal with living in a racist place? So is me one live in a racist place? Me na see none a you a move. Now how de spotlight move off a de woman and land pan me?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I live in the USA, but if I leave I am going to Jamaica.... I happen to consider Jamaica very racist.... at least the rhetoric and vitriol directed towards a certain group of Jamaicans but folks who you think would know better.
My point is, it may not be possible to escape racism, but I personally do not see every act of kind old ladies offering a child spare change or a banana a being racist or because the mother and child is not white enough.[/
quote]
:rollyeye:

[quote]
The worse thing a mother can do in my opinion is to allow a child to accept gifts of any value from strangers.
Greed has been the driver for too many of us, and reparation, guilt or anything else should NEVER allow people to lose their dignity.

My children and I may not have the best clothes, shoes, education, but no one has ever made the mistake of handing anything to my children for any reason whatsoever. OK, so you are talking about another country, but even somewhere else, I would not condone it.

If Michelle (not recognized as the President's wife) would get on the same train with her two daughters, do you think anyone would dare try and offer them money? It is all in the way we conduct ourselves in the long run. I am reminded here of a Jamaican saying about &quot;duppy knowing who to frighten&quot; .

Here are two proverbs that I have lived by and have taught my daughters:

- It's better to lose your time than your character

AND one my grandmother always used was:

- Crav'n choke and kill puppy.
</div></div>

Interesting what sharing can do, even this thread has proven it.

Now when I came on the board first apart from the difficulties adjusting there were plenty a strange stereotypes even worse than this woman, she is practically harmless in my opinion. We are not classified as black as is the case with many on this board.
I dont know how by text or opinion which might not even be my own, some believe that I was a prostitute. To the person who talked to me about it on the phone it is not you I am referring to but the rest of them. You were not the only one. I did initially thought it could have had something to do with my name, but I cleared that up enough and the stereotype somehow persisted. I even believe that it is still alive if smaddi would go so far as to think me go around begging people for money.
And to think me na find Michelle Obama good looking but I came to realize that the people I used to find look good doesnt anymore. Money and Success have an interesting effect on the way we see beauty - still depending.

I can only say that when black people automatically classify a next black person by not even knowing anything about them, that that is the height of prejudice. I also think that this believe that some have that they are better off than others is a result of the low way they see themselves. Remind me a some bout here weh do likkle work like de first black bank clark and think him now superior to the rest and na know nothing bout nobody. You can be proud of what you accomplish without looking down others. I respect people when they are proud of who they are no matter what them decide fe be. I like exchanging with all types but it is dangerous people seem always to have that need fe metrics

Believe it or not I do not cast judgment on people and as a matter of fact I found that I rate many black people too highly hence the disappointment when you see the small respect they have for themselves.

I believe that a certain level of animal behaviour is in fact human, I do not stereotype any particular. I will not even classify it as a Jamaican thing me a experience on here because I know some offline. Two of them even helped my same Trini friend at least they thought so. Them two had that Caribbean spirit, like bring food fe her and help her with her bills, even helped to a vacation in Italy. They were too nice to her, what a pity!

But you know, me is going to Italy in April and after me say that somebody go think is me a de Trini ooman and that is money me a actually beg. Oh lord /ö\

Because I took the time to explain my view, irrespective of experiences, I cant help but see that some prejudice is behind the inability to understand another perspective.

[Nylah]

Re: Not white enough

<span style="font-weight: bold">Because I took the time to explain my view, irrespective of experiences, I cant help but see that some prejudice is behind the inability to understand another perspective.</span>

I was gonna stay out of this but I have to say

The thought or ability to conceive that another person can have a totally different perspective on life from someone else's is lost a great deal around here.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">Because I took the time to explain my view, irrespective of experiences, I cant help but see that some prejudice is behind the inability to understand another perspective.</span>

I was gonna stay out of this but I have to say

The thought or ability to conceive that another person can have a totally different perspective on life from someone else's is lost a great deal around here. </div></div>

Tell me something if she was happy about the donation to her daughter's future why complain about it?
If she says oh I am not complaining why introduce, colour, race, class, Africans, perceptions, etc.
Now she is crying about prejudice but she is one of the members here who boldly leap to all kinds of conclusions about a posters motives when they make contributions to topics that she has inputs in. I can and will cite many examples should it be required. I actually don't have to go too far they are in this very topic.

It seems to me there are dissenting views about her actions, which have nothing to do with personal prejudice to her.
The whole argument is about an unassociated donation to her daughter by a stranger. Should she have taken it.... the decision was hers solely to make. We are all making our inputs based on the fact that it has been posted in a public forum, nothing more nothing less.

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tell me something if she was happy about the donation to her daughter's future why complain about it?</div></div>
With you one must repeat themself or me na know. I said I was not complaining about it, I found it amusing, had I been one of those refugees her live in her county I might have been glad to have receive it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If she says oh I am not complaining why introduce, colour, race, class, Africans, perceptions, etc.</div></div>
I thought it was clear by the many examples I gave that I rather like racist people, plenty of opportunities, ask Obama. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now she is crying about prejudice but she is one of the members here who boldly leap to all kinds of conclusions about a posters motives when they make contributions to topics that she has inputs in. I can and will cite many examples should it be required. I actually don't have to go too far they are in this very topic.</div></div>
I stand by everything I say. I even know two sources for my opinion. Bring freely because in this post me only see that you pick pan things that mek you motives questionable. I have never judged any posters by one or two posts but over a long period of time because it takes time to see patterns. And up until now me kyaan figure you out because I'd rather not believe the negative things I see.
Maybe you should have done like I would, question the posters motives before assuming them because if the situation is actually otherwise, you do look stupid.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It seems to me there are dissenting views about her actions, which have nothing to do with personal prejudice to her.
The whole argument is about an unassociated donation to her daughter by a stranger. Should she have taken it.... the decision was hers solely to make. We are all making our inputs based on the fact that it has been posted in a public forum, nothing more nothing less. </div></div>
you dont say, I fail to see where all the things you said were as a result of what i said. You first error was to think this was to get advice because I was not please with what I had done. I am rather pleased.
an way yu see me a bawl?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You first error was to think this was to get advice because I was not please with what I had done. I am rather pleased.
an way yu see me a bawl? </div></div>

Whether or not you sought advice or affirmation the fact is this is a BB, it is public so you post here at the risk of members weighing in on one side or the other.

Accepting that you were not displeased by the unsolicited donation why is the title of the thread:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Not white enough</div></div>

You then call into question the lady’s motives by proffering your own stereotypical view of white old ladies in public spaces, going on in details about the supposedly unhealthy fascination with what they consider to be lot of poor black Africans in their country to the point of assaulting them with spare change and even crackers?
Why did you think this must be the reason for her apparent kindness?

You are/were not displeased but you find it necessary to regale us with a prior experience during which you felt so revolted that you assaulted the lady with a cracker she tired to offer you?
Was it because her gift was not spare change in the form of €2.00?

[britisha]

Re: Not white enough

Laawd, so heerly innah di maawning...this thread has taken on ANOTHER LIFE and I am here trying to DECIPHER what it was about [agen]...annihoo I haven't read alll the latest comments, and fear that time won't permit me to do so...any how, Sukie, thanks for starting it, it HAS SERVED A PURPOSE... has revealed more isms and schisms than would or could ever be imagined.


Ah sah...Jamaicans.com...mi luv oonoh like cook food...oono mek mi almoas bun di water fi mi coffeee...mi noh know how mi an oono wudda wurk dat hout...


Oono haff a great day.

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

too late fe ask questions now you done mek yu judgement. an so wa if a bb? yu na tired a stating the obvious?
you found one other thing fe me repeat but me naa badda

Other than that, for all I said I didnt cast any stereotypes of old white women in public spaces - that is yours again. The fact of the matter is my being black motivated her to action, she didnt approach anybody else on that train. I find all information necessary as it would give any form of thinking including yours enough space to come up with an opinion on the situation.
The prior experience with the other women I mentioned - all of these have something in common and the situation was the same - and no not just being white.

It seems like you have a hard time in digesting that I find nothing negative in all of this. After she gave her the coins she then pressed her hands this body language I would interpreting to show that it was coming from her heart.
Nothing negative but a touching situation.

[rufian]

Re: Not white enough

Wait deh! I now I see your problem.

No wonder you cant understand the flipping title. Well I never

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If she thinks she was getting these offers because she and her daughter were not white enough then bleach.</div></div>

Is not me I am referring to not being white enough, it is the woman

And to think me repeat wa me mean by it. Yu mussa chupit.

[britisha]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">personally I have seen in many places old ladies giving children sweets.... Be it in hte UK , Jamica, Europe ect. In Libya and other parts of Africa it is the norm. I recall my daugter when she was about 2 would run at full tilt to get to a shop where the guy would give her a sweet with a smile. <span style="font-weight: bold">Craven or simply the childish behaviour</span>....

Usually I take it as a method of connecting with children of acknowleging beauty youth and vigour... But have it reduced to simply craven strikes me as disengenious... Kindness to kids equal ulterior motives....it is the exception not the norm and if we demonise adults to such an extent ????? God almighty &quot;craven choke and kill puppy&quot;. I never understood that when adults told me that as a child and it stikes me as equally simplistic<span style="font-weight: bold">doc dudd would have something to say as to the pscological motivation of children... </span>The sentiment in that cliche to be applied to children is sickening....

What is fascinating to me about this thread is not the giving, its the context and the amount of money involved. My motehr an old lady I have seen give sweets to children after asking their mother.. Sometimes the mother says dont.. they are about to have their merienda. I asked her about that she said its kind.. She also notes never to give sweets to them without their parents consent. (My motherr also takes chocolates to her bank and gets treated like a millionairess when she goes there..).

Being pleasant to children should be a norm....<span style="font-weight: bold">We have to temper the interaction between caution and humanity...Put it all in context.</span> Unlike blkgain I can see white people being human and derive pleasure from kindness.

</div></div>
Just got a chance to read some posts here ope Sukie doan mind mi adding anodda cent.

Nice, what a world we live in, Wallie..

[britisha]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

REread Sukie's tale...it is not so much about accepting a handout as the fact that the giver is white....if you are following her posts here, where she lives is very racist, and that is what IMHO is bothering her, that the stereotype about blacks being needy might have been the motive. </div></div>I am not quibbling with the fact that:

A. she accepted the money
B. the giver might have thought she was helping out a poor destitute Black Madonna and Child.
C. she lives in a very racist country.

I am willing to accept all the above, what I am offering <span style="font-style: italic">(or think I am offering)</span> is advice on how to escape or deal with the vagaries of living in a racist country where the typical black person is considered to be an African, who is poor and need spare change <span style="font-style: italic">(since it has obviously affected her to the point where she gives blow by blow accounts from time to time.)</span>.
Maybe she should dress better when she goes out in public. I am not making a value judgment on her character but maybe her and her daughter’s costumes might give rise to folks believing that they fit the stereotype. </div></div>

Intereesting...*chukkle*

What can be perceived as a kind act by some, might just be a show for a guilt-ridden one who felt the need to do Pennance<span style="font-weight: bold"> publicly</span>...when dealing with racists though [and I again don't know the lady's motives..for all you know, she might have a half black/white grandchild..] ].. but when dealing with them, they tend to see melanin and melanin only... </div></div>
I also leave the door open on that and I did give enough background information. We also do see in white terms.
I believe more it was the context that lead her to believing that we were needy.
It is the poorest county in the country. They belonged to Hungary previously, mind you these people are the most cooperative that I have had the privilege of dealing with.
The fact is there is a refugee home there and I believe that she thought that we belonged there and she looked Bohemian to me. Might also explain the funny behaviour with all them coins. lol Oh, and my daughter is light-skinned and mixed, which does not make a difference around here cause even Turks with a little dark complexion get what all Africans get. Her complexion would also not help because most of the refugees they send there are from the horn of Africa.

Context is everything. When I was doing my activist bit, I was offered a scholarship that I mentioned in the thread, it was meant for Africans. They were handing out three of them at the time and only 2 got claimed in the end. I didn't know about it, it was sent to me. They actually believed that I was African just because of the context. Should I have turned it down? No way, it was an opportunity. And if this mistake is being made at a state level, who am I to refuse? It was a good opportunity to education which led to further opportunities.

My partner was having problems finding work based on racism for the level of work he was looking for. So, as Obama did a run me tell e, see a black man time now, set up yuself, dem need black people fe push in front, fe say dem na racist - Germany same way. And now him have one extra offer he na know how fe accept no joke - and yu see times hard. Even I got into big companies because they wanted to prove to the mother American companies that they were not racist and followed the diversity policies.

I swear, if any white smaddi come to me wid anything based on racism it a ge go just like that Nigerian 419 song

Sokie, they must share the motto &quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">once you black yuh are are an African</span>&quot;

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Not white enough

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is not me I am referring to not being white enough, it is the woman

And to think me repeat wa me mean by it. Yu mussa chupit.
</div></div>Okay I did not get that from your initial post...when did you make that clear?
In any case what did it matter whether she was white, black or not white enough, since you claimed it was not about race?

[mountaingal]

Re: Not white enough

there's something so surreal about this discussion. i'm here trying to figure out which is greater - my entertainment or my confustion.