jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

[blugiant]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
40 legz like mii dunn tell yu awlreadee dere iss noo such ting as homophobia. homophobia iss sintinn made upp funnee peeps fii tryinn fe negative label narmal peeps wey doan accept funnee peeps lifestyle as narmal. phobia iss psychologikkal term used bye regagnized group aff psychologists fe define ann label peeps suffarinn aff unreasonable fear aff sintinn. deer iss noo recagnized group aff psychologists wey agree pon definition aff homophobia. soo like itt ar natt, since homophobia iss unrecagnizeable dere iss noo such ting as homophobia.

de wurd phobia iss used inna a diffarant way cah itt bout unreasonable fear aff sintinn soo itt wan mental eealth sintinn. homophile doo natt carree de same meaninn cah itt natt recagnized bye a recagnzied group fe label a group as sufferinn fram specific defined psychologee issue

itt natt a test itt wan qwestionaire devised bye homosexuals fe label narmal peeps usinn funnee peeps values fe judge </div></div>
The legitimacy of word &quot;homophobia&quot; is YOUR issue. It isn't the meaning of this test. The test measures your feelings about a cohort group. For most of the questions you could easily change the word homosexual to Jew, or Black, or Pakistani, and if a few thousand people took the quiz, you could gauge your result against the other respondents.

Most of us experience our own feelings as normal, and we can't imagine <span style="font-style: italic">feeling</span> other than we do. You are no different than the rest of us. Just take the test and see how your feelings about homosexuals relate to the norm, and forget about the phobia or philo labels. </div></div>

soo raddar dan admit mii rite dat homophobia iss meaninnnless wurd unless used bye homosexuals fi negativelee label narmal peeps wey doan accept homosexualitee as narmal, yu tryinn fii change desubject. phobia iss bout unreasonal fear aff sintinn ann noo narmal recagnizeable group aff psychologist agree dat nan acceptance aff homosexualitee iss unreasonable. dat meen peeps wey doan accept homosexualitee as narmal ar reaasonable, eence dere iss noo such ting as homophobia

de qwestionaire as a result iss designed fii test peeps acceptance level aff homosexualitee by usinn wan qwestionaire fii quantifii ann ann usinn de scale designed bye homosexual fe judge ann label traight peeps.

de qwestionaire iss flawed ann mii suprise yu doan see de flaw. iff mzungu didd wan qwestionaire fe judge racism ann den use dat test fe judge blakk as racist, de flaw becum appearant. still mii quess yu doan see de flaw yet

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">soo raddar dan admit mii rite dat homophobia iss meaninnnless wurd unless used bye homosexuals fi negativelee label narmal peeps wey doan accept homosexualitee as narmal, yu tryinn fii change desubject. phobia iss bout unreasonal fear aff sintinn ann noo narmal recagnizeable group aff psychologist agree dat nan acceptance aff homosexualitee iss unreasonable. dat meen peeps wey doan accept homosexualitee as narmal ar reaasonable, eence dere iss noo such ting as homophobia</div></div>
Surely you can accept that your feelings about homosexuals are learned? Many people don't feel at all about queer folk like you do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
de qwestionaire as a result iss designed fii test peeps acceptance level aff homosexualitee by usinn wan qwestionaire fii quantifii ann ann usinn de scale designed bye homosexual fe judge ann label traight peeps.</div></div>
Exactly! The test is designed to test a persons acceptance level of homosexuals. (In a 1998 address, Coretta Scott King asserted that, &quot;Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood.&quot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
de qwestionaire iss flawed ann mii suprise yu doan see de flaw. iff mzungu didd wan qwestionaire fe judge racism ann den use dat test fe judge blakk as racist, de flaw becum appearant. still mii quess yu doan see de flaw yet</div></div>
The test has nothing to do with blacks blu. You are a person who has negative feelings about homosexuals. Many people have negative feelings about Jews, or Muslims, or Blacks, or whites. This test is for negative feelings about homosexuals. You ought to take it... I bet you would get a high score!

[rufian]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

Easy, me score high. something wrong with that? I think you should also be tolerant to people who do not accept homosexuals as being natural as well. You come off very intolerant on that note.
Your feelings towards homosexuality are in fact learned and is the trend of the day.


I am very sensitive to what I see and even ugly people mek me go I guess somebody should teach me that is alright when two man kiss pan de street. I dont know that man and man belong together.

I have nothing against gays, as a matter of fact they should give them their own state again like Sodom and let nature take its course.

The biggest insult to me as a black person is when they classify racism against black people with invalids and gays. Is it an abnormal thing to be black as it is with invalids? Can I help being black as the case is with gays? It is all their context of seeing things, it is what they have to deal with not me as a black person.

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

well the simplest answer to that is that normal/abnormal are defined by groups and so the terms normal or abnormal can't <span style="font-style: italic">necessarily</span> be used to define ethical treatment of others.

for example, in some nations/cultures it is normal for ritual scarring during coming of age ceremonies or female or male circumcision, or arranged marriages like in some Pakistani, Indian, or Afghan tribes. that is their norm, yet many people recognize that female circumcision is actually not a very ethical way to treat young girls, nor is it right to force them into sexual relationships at 12 or 13 when they marry men whom they might not have chosen to. In India it was normal for the caste system, yet few people today would recognize the value of that 'normal' system which states that according to who one was born to determines their position and worth as a person.

considering the many ills which face our western societies it seems obvious that the supposed issues of what people do with each other as far as butt captains and what not goes, is a clever little hammer whacking on some people's nerve tip to make their leg jump and take their concerns and energies and put them to accomplishing jack sh!t, but it's much easier to throw a piece of meat into a wolf pack than it is to solve the systemic issues of the forest where the wolves roam.

the 'no homo' phenomenon recently took root in one set of friends of mine and it is ridiculously stupid. now before, when I never thought much about gays, it is impossible to have a normal conversation without having to utter this stupidity, so I basically couldn't take it anymore and simply said, ARE YOU GAY? My friend said, HELL NO &amp;^**)**^%$#. So I said, well NEITHER AM I so why the frak are we continually telling each other we are not homos!

It's like how many dancehall records all make the same declaration. It's like, yeah no sh!t sherlock. Is song after song really necessary to get your point across about how not gay you are. Makes one suspicious along the lines of methinks thou dost protest too much or whatever the phrase is.

[rufian]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the simplest answer to that is that normal/abnormal are defined by groups and so the terms normal or abnormal can't <span style="font-style: italic">necessarily</span> be used to define ethical treatment of others.</div></div>
As you can see I mapped abnormal to invalid and choice to gay.
Being black is not a handicap neither is it a choice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
for example, in some nations/cultures it is normal for ritual scarring during coming of age ceremonies or female or male circumcision, or arranged marriages like in some Pakistani, Indian, or Afghan tribes. that is their norm, yet many people recognize that female circumcision is actually not a very ethical way to treat young girls, nor is it right to force them into sexual relationships at 12 or 13 when they marry men whom they might not have chosen to. </div></div>
who people? people who think they can go around the world and change people way of life to suite their capitalism all in the name of democracy. It is normal to the Asians so it is normal to me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In India it was normal for the caste system, yet few people today would recognize the value of that 'normal' system which states that according to who one was born to determines their position and worth as a person.</div></div>
who people again? what about the indian people? as a matter of fact who ever people they may be are outnumbered by the indians. why they dont remove the british class system, dem people.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the 'no homo' phenomenon recently took root in one set of friends of mine and it is ridiculously stupid. now before, when I never thought much about gays, it is impossible to have a normal conversation without having to utter this stupidity, so I basically couldn't take it anymore and simply said, ARE YOU GAY? My friend said, HELL NO &amp;^**)**^%$#. So I said, well NEITHER AM I so why the frak are we continually telling each other we are not homos!</div></div>
there must be some truth in pro-gay activism. so if you friend ask you it mean say yu a exhibit some behaviour dat mek him unsure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's like how many dancehall records all make the same declaration. It's like, yeah no sh!t sherlock. Is song after song really necessary to get your point across about how not gay you are. Makes one suspicious along the lines of methinks thou dost protest too much or whatever the phrase is. </div></div>
It is called social control.

[Morpheous]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the simplest answer to that is that normal/abnormal are defined by groups and so the terms normal or abnormal can't <span style="font-style: italic">necessarily</span> be used to define ethical treatment of others.</div></div>
Homosexuality is abnormal in my opinion and I will always stick to that.

However your reasoning is correct in that it doesn't give ANYONE the right to kill or beat dung a homosexual for what they are.
There are lots in this world that I think are wrong but I don't feel killing is the solution unless it is in self defense of your own life being at risk.

Locking homosexuals up in prison is not a solution either or making homosexuality against the law in Jamaica. Maybe more subtle ways is effective in dealing with the issue. Example don't invest, buy or do business with ANYONE you feel is against your particular moral standing including homosexuals. I realise this is easier said than done.

Dem ovah desso and mi ovah yassoh is my motto

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the simplest answer to that is that normal/abnormal are defined by groups and so the terms normal or abnormal can't <span style="font-style: italic">necessarily</span> be used to define ethical treatment of others.</div></div>
As you can see I mapped abnormal to invalid and choice to gay.
Being black is not a handicap neither is it a choice.
</div></div>

yes yes, and that is why I put necessarily in italics. that takes a little extra time you know.

but ethics are relatively self evident as cultures and peoples evolve and come into contact with other societies. you see if choice is introduced and alternative mores like choice in marriage, many traditional aspects of a culture fall away as youth redefine what is 'normal'...like the caste system in India, or women's rights in Afghanistan...so it is not so much about foreign people trying to exert some kind of negative influence...not per se. Not all influence is negative in the first place. Like adopting western medical cures vs. cupping or something like that.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
for example, in some nations/cultures it is normal for ritual scarring during coming of age ceremonies or female or male circumcision, or arranged marriages like in some Pakistani, Indian, or Afghan tribes. that is their norm, yet many people recognize that female circumcision is actually not a very ethical way to treat young girls, nor is it right to force them into sexual relationships at 12 or 13 when they marry men whom they might not have chosen to. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
who people? people who think they can go around the world and change people way of life to suite their capitalism all in the name of democracy. It is normal to the Asians so it is normal to me.

</div></div>

right, but see above.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In India it was normal for the caste system, yet few people today would recognize the value of that 'normal' system which states that according to who one was born to determines their position and worth as a person.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
who people again? what about the indian people? as a matter of fact who ever people they may be are outnumbered by the indians. why they dont remove the british class system, dem people.
</div></div>

well who people would be the Indian people who buck the caste system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
there must be some truth in pro-gay activism. so if you friend ask you it mean say yu a exhibit some behaviour dat mek him unsure
</div></div>

Maybe? But since I am not gay I have no idea, I don't really study gays or anything like, the few I know are fairly regular and discrete and actually lesbians, so I really wouldn't know a gay 'behaviour' outside of the flamboyant stereotypes. And that is my point, in a roundabout way. Now I have to think about it and watch what I say to defend against some kind of perception, even if it's just a joke thing, when the reality is I should be able to remain blissfully ignorant and not have to think or consider something I personally have nothing to do with lol.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's like how many dancehall records all make the same declaration. It's like, yeah no sh!t sherlock. Is song after song really necessary to get your point across about how not gay you are. Makes one suspicious along the lines of methinks thou dost protest too much or whatever the phrase is. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is called social control.
</div></div>

exactly.

[rufian]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

And one social control vs the next.

You know of any concrete cases with Indians running out of their castes? Statistics I mean. If anything I blame westernization for it and I would say many have options these days.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you see if choice is introduced and alternative mores like choice in marriage, many traditional aspects of a culture fall away as youth redefine what is 'normal'...like the caste system in India, or women's rights in Afghanistan...so it is not so much about foreign people trying to exert some kind of negative influence...not per se. Not all influence is negative in the first place. Like adopting western medical cures vs. cupping or something like that.</div></div>
I think it is an old problem of falling in love and that is not a sign that the caste system is of no use.
But the women's right in Afghanistan I will leave as is. They know their people, they have their reasons. The same western men hardly handle their own women any better. Western women were given liberties because of economical reasons(just like freeing slaves) and still women earn less than men and have less access to many things.
I am against western medicine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..But since I am not gay I have no idea, I don't really study gays or anything like, the few I know are fairly regular and discrete and actually lesbians, so I really wouldn't know a gay 'behaviour' outside of the flamboyant stereotypes. And that is my point, in a roundabout way. Now I have to think about it and watch what I say to defend against some kind of perception, even if it's just a joke thing, when the reality is I should be able to remain blissfully ignorant and not have to think or consider something I personally have nothing to do with lol.</div></div>
You tan deh, I have seen a British postgraduate course on detecting sexual orientation through behaviour. I do not know what they aim with it. Where I come from them done know who will be gay from them likkle
well not dem that do it for financial gains

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And one social control vs the next.

You know of any concrete cases with Indians running out of their castes? Statistics I mean. If anything I blame westernization for it and I would say many have options these days.</div></div>

yup, I know of lots of concrete cases, couple of friends of mine actually- one guy was kshatriya, his dad was some kind of minor official. he would go back a couple of times every year and his dad would hook up interviews with potential wives. Statistics? LOL...come now Sukuna why on earth would I actually know statistics...I should have them in my pocket as this is so common a subject? lol...

the whole time this youth was going through the motions with his parents, he was with a japanese girl, they are now married with a bun in the oven. he tells me the club scene and dj scene is huge for the last few years.

also an indian girl, a model friend of mine. I forget her caste. And I have tons of friends in Trinidad, that is like pure Indian there...the youth don't really care that much for the customs that are like that anymore. In general, non statistical terms.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think it is an old problem of falling in love and that is not a sign that the caste system is of no use.
But the women's right in Afghanistan I will leave as is. They know their people, they have their reasons. The same western men hardly handle their own women any better. Western women were given liberties because of economical reasons(just like freeing slaves) and still women earn less than men and have less access to many things.</div></div>

You mean men know they can subject the weaker.

Yes that is true of course regarding women's rights and economic causals, but there are always some people who stand up against injustice who have no economic investment or benefit who work for change, knowledge, and awareness- look at the cases of some of the abolitionists and such, the women who fought for things like suffrage, etc.

but granting the power of economics to effect change that just so happens to also benefit subgroups, that is also not to say that there is not now more social mobility and more access to rights and benefits which once were the sole provenance of males...I don't see why culture should allow for the exploitation of one group for another's benefit in perpetuity just because that is the way it is and was and so it will always be? and to fight for that kind of justice just seems to me, to be of self evident benefit to the greater good of all, why must we be subject to the trappings of our arbitrary culture. Nobody chooses to be born where they are and to whom...how would you feel if you were born a young afghan girl, and were denied schooling, and were basically enslaved to some old man from the time you were 13. There are some fascinating stories coming from Afghan women as they begin to reassert some rights which Taliban rule revoked, etc. So that some sets of people can be defined and at the top position? I dunno, that doesn't sound all that great.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am against western medicine.
</div></div>

I know some people who feel this way. But training in a temple where traditional chinese medicine is practised...I will take a western doctor to fix a lot of sh!t over a chinese traditional, trust me when I tell you. I think it has it's place, but if my appendix bursts, take me to a hospital and operate, don't rub me with herbs and put my feet up or smoke out the 'demon' in my stomach...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You tan deh, I have seen a British postgraduate course on detecting sexual orientation through behaviour. I do not know what they aim with it. Where I come from them done know who will be gay from them likkle
well not dem that do it for financial gains </div></div>

yeah sure, some fruits you know from when they're kids but if you acknowledge that ability does that shift your view then about it being a choice all the time? I mean, how does a little kid come to figure it's a fruit...you are suggesting you can tell probably before it can.

p.s. I can think of a lot better post grad coursework to pursue, like exploring the female figure in art, but if YOU signed up for a course like that, and you have to declare something stupid like 'no homo' to your friends...that's kind of what I mean. It's just a little ridiculous to start to frame out an be aware of every possible reference from that perspective of having to define yourself constantly...like never wanting to have the number 2 on your football jersey, or never saying as a dj you are on the 1s and 2s, skipping second and going from first to third when you count out, and all kind of horsesh!t like that, as if the normal assumption is that if you do sport a 2 on your jersey you are a fruit...I think you will have to agree that is nonsense and idiocy.

[rufian]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

no the course just researches behaviour which makes the sexual orientation identifiable. It implies observing the behaviour of different sexual orientations.

A lot of what you say makes sense and seems well thought out. Yet mek me just calm meself down because you are making a great deal of effort to defend homosexuality

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah sure, some fruits you know from when they're kids but if you acknowledge that ability does that shift your view then about it being a choice all the time? I mean, how does a little kid come to figure it's a fruit...you are suggesting you can tell probably before it can.</div></div>
admittedly in small places that is quite easy because you have can just look at people and tell who they are by their behaviour based on characters in the past. Take for instance, black men of a lighter complexion, people think that they are gay automatically. Or men that live in a female dominated home with a strong mother. And then you have flighty flighty personality which can be observed at an early age, quite some more too. Then as you would also guess, people go through wicked lengths to maintain these notions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but granting the power of economics to effect change that just so happens to also benefit subgroups, that is also not to say that there is not now more social mobility and more access to rights and benefits which once were the sole provenance of males...</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">I do not see how homosexuals as a subgroup will benefit the whole.</span> Them more likely to be benefiting their own mental sickness. Plenty are artist weh waan sell claim dem gay.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't see why culture should allow for the exploitation of one group for another's benefit in perpetuity just because that is the way it is and was and so it will always be?
</div></div>
That is just the way it is. The west has been working at centuries to remove the exploitation from the groups themselves to them(the West).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
and to fight for that kind of justice just seems to me, to be of self evident benefit to the greater good of all, why must we be subject to the trappings of our arbitrary culture. Nobody chooses to be born where they are and to whom...how would you feel if you were born a young afghan girl, and were denied schooling, and were basically enslaved to some old man from the time you were 13.
</div></div>
to jump up and want to fight for somebody would imply that they are weak. do you consider gays weak men?

I would leave the afghan soceity alone. after all I dont have any McDonalds or sneakers for them to buy. Interferences will do these women more harm than good. Or you waan dem fe walk round like we black woman with so much education, even job and no proper family and a man to call our own? And even wussa, dem all fe tun gay? \ö/
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There are some fascinating stories coming from Afghan women as they begin to reassert some rights which Taliban rule revoked, etc. So that some sets of people can be defined and at the top position? I dunno, that doesn't sound all that great.</div></div>
Yes it is all for the good of the west which is the whole. How is this good for the Afghan men.

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A lot of what you say makes sense and seems well thought out. Yet mek me just calm meself down because you are making a great deal of effort to defend homosexuality

</div></div>

and now you see the soft trap!!! I don't defend homos, but I don't see what's wrong with them either, but because of that, the inference is that I must be gay too. From the time you say that, how can I respond really, because to do so means I myself am protesting too much. So now I have to say 'No homo!!' Somehow this whole matter just get warped up. And the laugh of that is, if I am gay, plenty of man would love to be wearing this belt lol...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">I do not see how homosexuals as a subgroup will benefit the whole.</span> Them more likely to be benefiting their own mental sickness. Plenty are artist weh waan sell claim dem gay.
</div></div>

well, by benefit the whole, what I mean there is that the whole is made up of plenty of sub groups. disenfranchise one- that leads to the potential to disenfranchise some other, divide and conquer just like what we are seeing with this issue. Like how divorce used to carry a stigma. But nowadays people can split and move on. Tell me, isn't there a long list of far bigger issues...what about sexual harassment especially in the work place? How comes my girlfriend can't work in one shop too long before the boss comes to check her for some favor. Lots of times power needs a scapegoat to deflect from what is really going on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

to jump up and want to fight for somebody would imply that they are weak. do you consider gays weak men?
</div></div>

well sure, there is that implication, but the implication isn't always born out.

I don't consider gay men.

I'm just saying, big frakking deal, they're gay, it's got nothing to do with me or any of the evils of society that really effect a lot of people, and besides doing what I find gross, they're pretty regular people and if you met up with them on the street you might not even know!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Interferences will do these women more harm than good. Or you waan dem fe walk round like we black woman with so much education, even job and no proper family and a man to call our own? And even wussa, dem all fe tun gay? \ö/
</div></div>

well I am obviously ignorant of what it is like to be a woman. all I can do is empathize, try and learn from women, observe the things my mother went through and fought against, and from many women that I do know, once exposed to access to privileges and rights long denied them, they want them to exercise as they choose and not as others choose, once aware they've been locked out, they want redress. So I think if you look at what, the women in Afghanistan who have been acid attacked, if you listen to them, you see it is not so much about western society trying a thing over there, it is about them wanting their inalienable self evident truths and rights.

I mean, should people have fought for things like women's suffrage? Maternity leave? Worker's rights? To me it seems readily apparent that many of the worst of society's evils have a severely distorted, and far greater, effect on the members who are longest downtrodden...like women. I don't necessarily think this has to do with personal weakness, just systemic forces.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes it is all for the good of the west which is the whole. How is this good for the Afghan men.




</div></div>

that kind of makes me chuckle a bit, cuz as a man, boy it would seem nice sometimes to be in one of these societies. One of my friends got himself a Thai women. It's insane. He comes home, she is asking him what he wants to eat, takes his shoes off, from between stirring the pots she is rubbing his back, carrying beers...it's like in a movie it is so stereotypical but there it is. He loved it for like, 3 months.

I kept trying to bring my girl around her to see if any of that would rub off, cuz she can't even make toast lol. So I guess the real question is why should it have to be good for the afghan men alone? why can't things go good for all. And when you think most of this abuse is on account of some fairy tale imaginary friend chatting out of bushes and clouds whom some other pipesmokers wrote stuff in a book just so they could get control...NO THANKS. So for women to receive their due which has for so long been denied...so I am just saying, if I were born as a woman, why can't I be a Dr. if I want, instead of being forced into a baby factory and collecting dung pancakes for a cook fire.

afghan men need to grow and learn to deal with the new day, just like all members of any society need to do as time passes and there is exposure to different ways. what is so good about keeping women as glorified slaves because of some false societal institution like religion. Like I said, I don't know, not being a woman. I can only guess. Maybe I am wrong.

Someone once said, the natural state of man is one of freedom. We can see this evidenced even in other orders of life. Capture any creature it will resist the cage. Few go willingly.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaicans appalling fixation on gays

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....butt yu sey imm divertinn attenshan away fram de real issues cah yu doan like wen dem bunn fiyah pon funnee peeps. mii guess itt onlee wen imm sey sintinn against funnee crime dat yu tink imm natt fii chatt bout dem abomination
</div></div>Look I don't like when them bun fiyah pon funnee peeps?
I cannot stop you or any other individuals from bunning fiyah pon whomever, all I am simply saying is that you are wrong, the Minister is wrong, should be ashamed of himself and need to forced to resign. Nether neither you nor him has supplied any proof that gays are responsible for the escalation of violent crime or any crime for that matter in Jamaica.