I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

**mountaingal** · 03-03-2009, 05:58 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
okay i see what you are saying MGee. thanks.

that leads to a next question which is if a group drifts towards specific traits to help deal with climate changes, arent then those genetic shifts towards what is defined as "african" in the first place?

The MRC1 (I think that is the correct gene) is what creates darker skin color. And if that is distinctive in Africans then those that need that gene to tolerate hotter climates, arent they then by genetic definition African? How is there genetic makeup closer to another group if deviations needed to occur?

<span style="font-style: italic">*not stating a fact but asking a question because I refused to take biology in school.</span>

</div></div>

well, considering i crashed on the shores of mitochondria and never recovered (in other words, after a while biology became a mystery to me), i'lllet Bippy respond.

i can only guesstimate based on commonsense that Africa is not the only hot place on the planet, so a genetic response to climate doesn't have to actually originate in Africa.

**jah_yout** · 03-03-2009, 05:59 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The <span style="font-weight: bold">Aetas</span> or <span style="font-style: italic">Negritos</span> are the <span style="font-weight: bold">aborigines of the Philippines who were called negritos by the Spaniards</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">at the time of their reign in the Philippines because of their darker skin color</span>. It is the tribe inhabiting the eastern parts of Luzon and called in different names: Agta, Ita, Ati, or Aeta. About 20,000 of them are spread throughout the country. Their majority can be seen in Pampanga and Zambales while others inhabit the coastal fringes of Northern Luzon, and the mountains of Negros, Samar, Panay and Leyte. As a result of their nomadic life, they live in houses built out of grass and tree branches to easily vacate upon scarcity of surrounding food. They don’t have social rules and live according to their ancient customs , which is most evidently shown in the way they dress.

Their distinguishing features are shorter stature, darker skin and curly hair. And because of their strong adaptation to tropical jungles, they are compared with the pygmies in the equatorial jungles of Africa.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Aeta or negritos according to anthropologists and archeologists, are descendants of the earliest settlers of the Philippines.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">They were predicted to migrate in the country through land bridges that connects the country to Asian mainland 30,000 years ago</span>. It may have occurred when the Malay Peninsula was still connected with Sumatra and other Sunda Islands. Their boundless journey around the Malay Peninsula that spread as far as The Philippines resulted to their widespread existence in the country. This is evident from the failed attempt of the Spaniards to settle them in one area

http://www.camperspoint.com/spip.php?article206

</div></div>

**jah_yout** · 03-03-2009, 06:07 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

photo of philipino so-called 'negritos'

A NEGRITO WOMAN AND CHILD in the PHILIPPINES

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24443965@N08/2936436917/

Having finished posting a set of BLACK AFRICA and AFRICAN ZULU images, I am transitioning to a new set of the OLD PHILIPPINES of 100 years ago with FOUR IMAGES of "BLACK FILIPINO". I am neither anthropologist nor DNA tracker....I am just an old 3-D photo lover posting half-stereoviews. HOWEVER.....having just come from BLACK AFRICA, these old photos beg certain questions about the migration of man, and when and how people got where they got. I have bypassed the AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINE on the way to the Philippines, and will let other flickr posters take that one on. To make it clear, every WHITE person I have shown these pictures to says, "These are Africans". I assume that if I asked some of the local Black constituency here in Philadelphia the same question, they might possibly guess the same thing. These images were photographed ca.1898 on the Island of NEGROS in the Central Philippines. Here's what the Wiki has to say about the folks in the pictures : ".......Being among the least-known of all living human groups, the origins of the Negrito people is a much debated topic......" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negritos Here's the Island in the Philippines where they supposedly formed the majority --- however, many sources say the Negritos were the FIRST inhabitants filling all of the Philippines : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negros_Island And one writer calls these Black Filipino "The Most Archaic People on the Face of the Earth" : www.ceeba.at/soc/soc_negritos_mariage.htm The old descriptions of the Philippine Negritos found with these photographs (written by White Men, of course) basically call them the lowest of the low on the scale of human progress and intelligence. Back then, such comments made other White people feel REALLY GOOD. From the Wiki... ".......While earlier studies such as that of WW Howell allied Andamanese craniometrically with Africans they did not have recourse to genetic studies. Later genetic and craniometric (mentioned earlier) studies have found more genetic affinities with Asians and Polynesians. A study on blood groups and proteins in the 1950s suggested that the Andamanese were more closely related to Oceanic peoples than Africans. Genetic studies on Philippine Negritos, based on polymorphic blood enzymes and antigens, showed they were similar to surrounding Asian populations. Genetic testing places all the Onge and all but two of the Great Andamanese in the mtDNA Haplogroup M, found in East Africa, East Asia, and South Asia, suggesting that the Negritos are at least partly descended from a migration originating in eastern Africa as much as 60,000 years ago. This migration is hypothesized to have followed a coastal route through India and into Southeast Asia. Analysis of mtDNA coding sites indicated that these Andamanese fall into a subgroup of M not previously identified in human populations in Africa and Asia; these findings suggest an early split from these populations.........." TRANSLATION : Nobody has really figured it all out yet.

babylon fool me one time...dem cyaan fool me again

**jah_yout** · 03-03-2009, 06:14 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't the Mongols (Genghis Kahn an di bunch) also conquers of Africa? Also raped an pillaged Africa and its people? Took slaves, which would explain di yellow gene? Ruled parts of Africa for a while? </div></div>

hell no!

africa is a huge continent...and it still doesn't explain the fact that these so-called 'negitos' were in asia BEFORE the likes of ghengis khan...if anything they are DESCENDED FROM the 'negritos';

black man a di original...whaapen to unnu

**jah_yout** · 03-03-2009, 06:21 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
".......While earlier studies such as that of WW Howell allied Andamanese craniometrically with Africans they did not have recourse to genetic studies. Later genetic and craniometric (mentioned earlier) studies have found more genetic affinities with Asians and Polynesians. A study on blood groups and proteins in the 1950s suggested that the Andamanese were more closely related to Oceanic peoples than Africans. Genetic studies on Philippine Negritos, based on polymorphic blood enzymes and antigens, showed they were similar to surrounding Asian populations.

Genetic testing places all the Onge and all but two of the Great Andamanese in the mtDNA Haplogroup M, found in East Africa, East Asia, and South Asia, suggesting that the <span style="font-weight: bold">Negritos are at least partly descended from a migration originating in eastern Africa as much as 60,000 years ago. This migration is hypothesized to have followed a coastal route through India and into Southeast Asia.</span> :/Analysis of mtDNA coding sites indicated that these Andamanese fall into a subgroup of M not previously identified in human populations in Africa and Asia; these findings suggest an early split from these populations.........."

TRANSLATION : Nobody has really figured it all out yet.
</div></div>

but the great j.a. rogers wrote:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"There is a very evident Negro strain in a certain element of the Japanese population, particularly those in the south. Imbert says, "The Negro element in Japan is recognizable by the Negroid aspect of certain inhabitants with dark and often blackish skin, frizzly or curly hair....The Negritos are the oldest race of the Far East. It has been proved that they once lived in Eastern and Southern China as well as in Japan where the Negrito element is recognizable still in the population."

</div></div>

if they are the most ancient inhabitants of asia...i would like to know how they 'came' from asia

**Boricua_papi** · 03-03-2009, 10:10 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mi cyaa bodda repeat di whole sintin me arredi write dung inna disya chread. </div></div>

do you mind elaborating on the term "genetic drift"? I have never heard that term before. </div></div>

Sorry for responding late, Nylah. Genetic drift can be defined as an accumulation of random changes in the relative abundance of gene variants within an isolated population. Genetic mutations occur within any population of organisms. Over time, these changes may filter from single individuals to larger groups to the isolated population as a whole. Unlike natural selection, a given mutation in genetic drift tends to be neutral i.e. it is neither beneficial or harmful to the isolated population. However, through this process, the gene frequency and distribution of the isolated population begins to diverge from the larger population from which it descended.

In the case of Negritos, they were originally indistinguishable genetically and morphologically from their Polynesian brethren. However, as they moved out and populated the far reaches of the South Pacific islands, they became isolated and the process of genetic drift coupled with natural selection induced the changes that we see today.

**Boricua_papi** · 03-03-2009, 10:18 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mi cyaa bodda repeat di whole sintin me arredi write dung inna disya chread. </div></div>

do you mind elaborating on the term "<span style="font-weight: bold">genetic drift</span>"? I have never heard that term before. </div></div>

i got another name for it...it starts with F and ends with CKERY </div></div>

You didn't take biology in school did you?

**Nylah** · 03-03-2009, 11:26 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mi cyaa bodda repeat di whole sintin me arredi write dung inna disya chread. </div></div>

do you mind elaborating on the term "genetic drift"? I have never heard that term before. </div></div>

Sorry for responding late, Nylah. Genetic drift can be defined as an accumulation of random changes in the relative abundance of gene variants within an isolated population. Genetic mutations occur within any population of organisms. Over time, these changes may filter from single individuals to larger groups to the isolated population as a whole. Unlike natural selection, a given mutation in genetic drift tends to be neutral i.e. it is neither beneficial or harmful to the isolated population. However, through this process, the gene frequency and distribution of the isolated population begins to diverge from the larger population from which it descended.

In the case of Negritos, they were originally indistinguishable genetically and morphologically from their Polynesian brethren. However, as they moved out and populated the far reaches of the South Pacific islands, they became isolated and the process of genetic drift coupled with natural selection induced the changes that we see today. </div></div>

No worries seeing as I am still processing what you said

Okay, if genetic drift is a neutral act, then wouldnt their drift towards dark skin and curly hair be seen as an evolutionary act instead of a genetic drift? I would think the increase in skin melanin and curly hair to protect them from the sun is a beneficial genetic act? Yes?

How does that differ from the genetic mutations that make Africans, African?

And how does what you explain tie to my 2nd set of questions that I posted later?

To me it seems like it still all loops back to them being defined as African still. But like I said, the "knee bone is connected to the thigh bone" biology business in school was something I paid no attention to so my questions are out of curiousity.

**Boricua_papi** · 03-04-2009, 11:52 AM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

Nylah,

Genetic drift is one of the primary mechanisms for evolution along with natural selection. They both work in concert over time. The process of natural selection acts as a filter in which traits derived from random mutations that occur within a given population of organisms may be better suited for the environment. Organisms bearing these favorable traits tend to have higher survival rates, are healthier, and have more offspring compared to organisms bearing traits that are not tailored to their environment. Over time, the higher number of offspring produced by organisms with favorable traits will propagate through the entire population as the offspring, too, will be better suited to their environment.

So, in the case of Negritos, one of their distant pale skinned ancestors may have been born with slightly darker skin purely from a random genetic mutation. This individual may have been better protected from disease and illness such as skin cancer and may have been healthier as a result and produced more offspring that also shared this dark skinned trait. With each succeeding generation, the dark skinned trait became more common as it proved advantageous relative to environment.

Genetic drift, is different in that it doesn't necessarily have to have a physical manifestation such as dark skin. It registers purely at the genetic level but is important in terms of examining the evolutionary process since it indicates just how far removed a given isolated population is compared to the parent population from which it descended.

Ultimately, both natural selection and genetic drift are the primary mechanisms in the evolutionary process.

**jah_yout** · 03-04-2009, 12:10 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by B_P

Mi cyaa bodda repeat di whole sintin me arredi write dung inna disya chread. </div></div>

do you mind elaborating on the term "<span style="font-weight: bold">genetic drift</span>"? I have never heard that term before. </div></div>

i got another name for it...it starts with F and ends with CKERY </div></div>

You didn't take biology in school did you?

is that where you learned 'negrito'? (little blacks)...

actually i did...but there is a thing called common sense...you seem to forget that scientistzs have made all sorts of outrageous claims in the past when it suited their racist or cuturally chauvinistic philosophies;

say no to 'negritos'

**Boricua_papi** · 03-04-2009, 12:58 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

I really don't see the big deal about the word "negrito." It is a term of affection in Puerto Rica at least. My mom used to call my brothers and I this.

**Wahalla** · 03-04-2009, 02:34 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

sorry Taino are the original people of the world.. stop this Afrocentric bent of historical interpretation.. The DNA translaters are reading hte evidence the wrong way fullfilling the conventional wisdom...

**Gen** · 03-04-2009, 02:42 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

**jah_yout** · 03-04-2009, 03:06 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see the big deal about the word "negrito." It is a term of affection in Puerto Rica at least. My mom used to call my brothers and I this. </div></div>

a term of endeearment is one thing...but to name an entire people that is a whole different dis-respect;
why don't they call the japanese amarillitos or little yellows?

chuh!

**Fyah** · 03-04-2009, 04:05 PM

Re: I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B_P</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see the big deal about the word "negrito." It is a term of affection in Puerto Rica at least. My mom used to call my brothers and I this. </div></div>

You really need to take your head out of the science books sometimes and apply common sense as suggested.

Quite a number of people do not see the "big deal" in using the other "N" word either...what your mother call you is your issue, that does not mean it is right for you to address others in that manner.

All mothers are not perfect.

I'll be dipped in .now dis leff mi speechless, wich is hard

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