Race & Ethinic Relations: the UK & Europe vs North America

[Tropicana]

Whenever I visit the UK and Europe, my impression is that the societies are much more tolerant than North America. As we say in Jamaica:

<span style="font-weight: bold"> &quot;Come see me and come live wid me a 2 different ting&quot;.</span>



Some of the comments in my thread about Black men being sent to jail due to lies were suprising. Seems that there have been similar incidents in Europe. I have also come across and posted articles about fans and coaches booing and hurling racial insults at Black soccer players. The fact that there are home grown terroists in some of these countries who were born and raised there, is quite telling. Every now and then you hear about Muslims demonstrating because of some racist policy re: hajibs or racist cartoons in newspapers. I guess it's similar to the monkey cartoon about Obama....now THAT was horrible

As I said, I am quite surprised. I would have to think to figure out where I get the impression that the societies are more tolerant:

- Josephine Baker moved to Paris WAY back as they found France to be more racially tolerant
- I see FAR more interracial couple in the UK and Europe. I see lots of White men with Black women and they aren't the Beyonce or Halle Berry type. These are dark skinned women with West African features and kinky hair.
- There seem to be far more Black runway models in Europe
- The soccer teams seem to be well integrated

So wha' mek. Am I guilty of just looking at things on the surface and not probing deeper.

Let's discuss the real deal concerning race relations in Europe and compare what is happening to race relations dynamics in North America. I don't just want to focus on how Blacks are treated but also include minorities such as gypsies, Arabs, and Muslims are treated. It seems like there are a lot of abuses.

Sukuna? Neutral? and others who live or who have lived in the UK or Europe. I am all ears.

[rufian]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

It will take a little while for me to contribute because this requires a high level approach

Until then.

[Serenity82]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

There are much more opportunities for Blacks in the US. Because of diversity intitiatives, civil rights laws and affirmative action, blacks here can generally get where they want careerwise and it's harder to deny opportunities here. I found the opposite in the UK, still lots of discrimination.

The level of interracial dating does not mean anything positive. From what I hear in the UK many, if not most, black men have a white partner! There are no where as many black professional anywhere in Europe like there are in the US.

One can just look at Latin American societies where Interracial dating has always been accepted and the norm yet blacks are still HEAVILY discriminated against.

Why are you so focused on IR dating? I know of several black women/white male couples in Canada. is it really that hard to get a date there? Isn't Dahjah in Canada? Could you not call him up?

[Tropicana]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America


<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;From what I hear in the UK&quot; </span>

Serenity. I thouht you were based in the UK. Maybe I am mixing you up with someone else. I do apologize for calling your name.

If you wish to continue to participate in this thread, kindly stick to the topic. Tonx.

[Serenity82]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;From what I hear in the UK&quot; </span>

Serenity. I thouht you were based in the UK. Maybe I am mixing you up with someone else. I do apologize for calling your name.

If you wish to continue to participate in this thread, kindly stick to the topic. Tonx. </div></div>

I'm in the US. I lived in the UK briefly and no Europe is not more tolerant than the United States believe me. There are not as many opportunities for blacks like there are here in the US.

You are so focused on IR dating and who is vs who'se not dating whom it's getting a bit tiring. Perhaps you need to move.

Good luck!

[rufian]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are much more opportunities for Blacks in the US. Because of diversity intitiatives, civil rights laws and affirmative action, blacks here can generally get where they want careerwise and it's harder to deny opportunities here. I found the opposite in the UK, still lots of discrimination.

The level of interracial dating does not mean anything positive. From what I hear in the UK many, if not most, black men have a white partner! There are no where as many black professional anywhere in Europe like there are in the US.

One can just look at Latin American societies where Interracial dating has always been accepted and the norm yet blacks are still HEAVILY discriminated against.

Why are you so focused on IR dating? I know of several black women/white male couples in Canada. is it really that hard to get a date there? Isn't Dahjah in Canada? Could you not call him up? </div></div>
capturing this moment

[Tropicana]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;From what I hear in the UK&quot; </span>

Serenity. I thouht you were based in the UK. Maybe I am mixing you up with someone else. I do apologize for calling your name.

If you wish to continue to participate in this thread, kindly stick to the topic. Tonx. </div></div>

I'm in the US. I lived in the UK briefly and no Europe is not more tolerant than the United States believe me. There are not as many opportunities for blacks like there are here in the US.



Perhaps you need to move.

Good luck! </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are so focused on IR dating and who is vs who'se not dating whom it's getting a bit tiring. </div></div>

Simple solution. Don't read my threads. There are HUNDREDS of members who probably post about topics that you don't find timing. I will discuss THAT topic till the day I die. Married or single, dating or not dating. That doesn't happen to be the focus of THIS thread.

[Nylah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America



I left England too young of an age to have my own opinion but when I listen to what my cousins have to say, they seem to make a distinction between classism and rascism.

They feel they are denied opportunities despite their education level, due to class issues rather than race. From my perspective, they are intertangable but to them this isnt so.

Curious to know what those in the U.K think about that.

[Wahalla]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

imho the paradigm is different.... I find Europeans more tolerant than Britz and yanks... in terms of careers???? I can walk into a room of CEO's and country managers and not have to prove myself like I notice with yanks. But there is an aspect of I am known in what I do. One degree of seperation.

Case in point a product line manager for a technoloy company came and visted us and discuss something.. It was not my interest directly, but these days there are too many specialists who dont understand that it is the small print that gets you not the big ticket item... I gave them hell closing loop holes. (given I also wrote many of the loopholes) A pretty blond contracts engineer lady asked me to ask something she did not want to look like she did not know what she talks about.. I askeed.. Suddenly half way through the meeting I realise that I knew these guys boss. An Italian - Ertitian lady beleive it or not.. I pipe up how is A***a. They are shocked but I watched the blackberryes go into action and see the effect.. The lady in question gave me a break during hard times.. I have drank pastice with her to celebrate contracts....

White guys have helped me in my career.. i have fought them literally and been their allies at timess maybe it is just me.... I have to admit that I am paid at the moment very well for a contract. I operate in regime of billions of dollars bugets..I have a buisness card for a mighty transnational, even though I run my own little business.. Having money does insulate me...

Being stopped by police in a car ???? Being discriminated in terms of promotion.. it depends on what you are looking at....being stopped by the customs, immigration, it gets less as I get older and they get better at data mining...

Social housing, educational serviices, otehr aspects I may be sheild from the force of discrimination based on where I live, salary ect

As for dating.. I know when I was bare foot and invited black women out it was a feeding frenzy on their part... maybe it was me... but I never had a black ooman want to go to visit the National Gallery with me... or a cheap date.. one can rationalise it as much as you want..

I am fortunate in a number of senses I am a large fit person with knife scars across my face.. it intimigated the weak...I am middle class.. a buisness owner...and

I cant say the claim about lack of opertunity.. the otehr day I was in the works cafe (We dont do canteen.. but full blow Barista).. I noted the lady who has the next office over was having a meeting over Doppio's... It was the in house tax department.. It was end of year thus planning for the next and reassurance given the economics in play at the momnet budgets being slashed ect....

Head of Tax department for the region.. British born nigerian lady..
The country head of tax department: my next door lady a cockney.
Two senior tas experts an Afro Trinidadian lady and a Straights chinese guy...

[Serenity82]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I left England too young of an age to have my own opinion but when I listen to what my cousins have to say, they seem to make a distinction between classism and rascism.

They feel they are denied opportunities despite their education level, due to class issues rather than race. From my perspective, they are intertangable but to them this isnt so.

Curious to know what those in the U.K think about that. </div></div>

I'm in a major Caribbean group here where I live and we have several members who are from the UK(Jamaican parents, born in the UK). All of them say the same thing, that all the blacks are wondering 'where are the jobs' for them because of the discrimination that occurs in the UK. How naive to think Europe is somehow 'less racist' than the US when US whites come from Europe, and here atleast blacks can make certain claims since everyone is the descendent of settlers. I lived in the UK, met and talked to many black british, there is no where near as many black professionals or as many opportunities like there are in the US.

[Serenity82]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

yeah right! Even in your beloved Libya you would never get anywhere near the opportunities as a black man that you would get in the US. Most times even for low level jobs Europeans do NOT hire blacks.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So wha' mek. Am I guilty of just looking at things on the surface and not probing deeper.</div></div>
Well, it is true that you are looking at different shades of skin color, and hair textures. And your question implies that, what you are <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> interested in, is how whites relate to these groups you are concerned about.

People in your generation and older are not going to change their attitudes about skin colors and hair textures. But, the (white) young people I know in America, are far less concerned about about racially inherited features than older generations are, or so it seems to me. They are concerned much more with the content of your heart, your tats, your facebook page, and what you do to pay your way, than the color of your skin.

On the other hand I think that the whole HipHop ensnared, sagging pants Black youth crowd, have inherited a hostile racial attitude (towards all others), that will not serve them well, if they ever give up the fantasy of being a famous rapper, and get a job, and raise a family. Maybe Im wrong? I hope Im wrong. But, I never feel a positive vibe from those folk, and so it hard for me to imagine how that cohort group is going to fit in twenty years from now? It appears to me to be a fashion of intolerance.

I guess that doesn't have much to do with the topic about who is more 'racially tolerant' of (don't you mean 'dates') Black women (who aren't the Beyonce or Halle Berry 'types')... North Americans or EuroUnioners?

[Nylah]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nylah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I left England too young of an age to have my own opinion but when I listen to what my cousins have to say, they seem to make a distinction between classism and rascism.

They feel they are denied opportunities despite their education level, due to class issues rather than race. From my perspective, they are intertangable but to them this isnt so.

Curious to know what those in the U.K think about that. </div></div>

I'm in a major Caribbean group here where I live and we have several members who are from the UK(Jamaican parents, born in the UK). All of them say the same thing, that all the blacks are wondering 'where are the jobs' for them because of the discrimination that occurs in the UK. How naive to think Europe is somehow 'less racist' than the US when US whites come from Europe, and here atleast blacks can make certain claims since everyone is the descendent of settlers. I lived in the UK, met and talked to many black british, there is no where near as many black professionals or as many opportunities like there are in the US. </div></div>

I have no energy to figure out the point of your rambling.

Naive is a word best applied to yourself.

Posing the question I did in no way indicates what I think - only done to create a point of discussion. You a little to naive to see this?

As stated on this board before, Europe and N America have very different histories that do effect level of racism and its manifestations.

[Serenity82]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North Amer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So wha' mek. Am I guilty of just looking at things on the surface and not probing deeper.</div></div>
Well, it is true that you are looking at different shades of skin color, and hair textures. And your question implies that, what you are <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> interested in, is how whites relate to these groups you are concerned about.

People in your generation and older are not going to change their attitudes about skin colors and hair textures. But, the (white) young people I know in America, are far less concerned about about racially inherited features than older generations are, or so it seems to me. They are concerned much more with the content of your heart, your tats, your facebook page, and what you do to pay your way, than the color of your skin.

On the other hand I think that the whole HipHop ensnared, sagging pants Black youth crowd, have inherited a hostile racial attitude (towards all others), that will not serve them well, if they ever give up the fantasy of being a famous rapper, and get a job, and raise a family. Maybe Im wrong? I hope Im wrong. But, I never feel a positive vibe from those folk, and so it hard for me to imagine how that cohort group is going to fit in twenty years from now? It appears to me to be a fashion of intolerance.

I guess that doesn't have much to do with the topic about who is more 'racially tolerant' of (don't you mean 'dates') Black women (who aren't the Beyonce or Halle Berry 'types')... North Americans or EuroUnioners? </div></div>

Interesting. Many other black people I talk to in the US find the younger White americans more openly hostile than the older ones, although the younger ones may have been more apt to say vote for Obama or accept a black manager.

[Wahalla]

Re: Race &amp; Ethinic Relations: the UK &amp; Europe vs North America

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Serenity82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah right! Even in your beloved Libya you would never get anywhere near the opportunities as a black man that you would get in the US. Most times even for low level jobs Europeans do NOT hire blacks. </div></div>

I ran a multi- million dollar company in North Africa as General Manager. I was appointed by that lady I mntioned... I consulted and help creat two companies that operate by Africans, and one of them now is legally exporting toxic waste to Europe.... And yes I love Libya... Leptis Magna,Sabratha, Green mountains, the fish market near where Whellus Base was, the car accidents I had there, the laughter, swiming in the med, the stars in the desert.. I Libyans are the most forgiving people I have ever met. I once got stopped by a police man who needed gas money, He asked for &quot;Hamsa Dinar&quot;,, I only had twenties. Two weeks later the police man stopped me again and gave it back to me.. He had run out of petrol... But my greatest ever pleasure was buying my wife Tunisian Tulips in Tripoli

... I now consult for a large Europena transnational, there are those ladies I mention,, 30 % of the staff I estimate is African, Afro Carribean or asian extraction, 30% are host nation, the rest European expats....Even what I classify as host nation is probably 50% scots... So dont call a Scot anything but a scot.. You want to dismiss my existance as an an irrelevant feel free. I do notice it is a yanqi characteristic to assume that only their paradigm has validity...

I have worked and coverned 2/3 of the globe in place most people . from the steppes to Sierra Leone, from triopi to 'tavanger, .. I have to acknowledge that my career has been helped by many white guys....My first line manager was an Egytian based in the UK.. He did nothing to help me at the time....His boss was an unmittiaged rascist,,,, but the guy who gave me a first break was a former Selous Scout, he took me into his team of killer angels and we went to war... So feel free to call me an liar,,,


For the record if you miss the point I made I have never denied that rascism existed.. Rather I am folding in the matter of