White Madonna with Twins

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">interesting how meaning change depending on which smilie is used.

question, is this an ordinary discussion or it serve some purpose? before me contribute </div></div>

sukuna i know some tangential discussions are taking place in this thread, but i'm just interested in discussing cultural and racial contexts and subtexts in art. and i'm for the moment still interested in discussing this, so let's hear what u have to say.

[Morpheous]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen African statues of art that push the boundaries for some people. </div></div>

i'd love to find out more from u about this - what african art or artist do u think has pushed boundaries, and for which people? </div></div>
Well if you do a google you will find nuff. I won't post some of the more should I say censored ones here but I can give you a few names - Chakaia Booker, Willie Cole, Glenn Ligon, Whitfield Lovell, Alison Saar, Lorna Simpson, and Kara Walker.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Some of the milder art for this G rated board:</span>
For instance would women find this art offensive. How do you interpret it.

http://www.theartsyn.com/.a/6a00d8345165dc69e201116886b049970c-800wi

http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/imgs/artists/mutu/wangechi_mutu_untitlednew11.jpg

http://blog.silive.com/entertainment_impact_arts/2009/02/large_2-12visuals.jpg

http://asuartmuseum.asu.edu/2002/saar/saar2.jpg

http://www.artlies.org/_issues/59/reviews/simblist.notes.jpg

http://www.friezeartfair.com/images/artists2008/Ligon.jpg

[rufian]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

you got any interviews with Chris Ofili that you find relevant? i am not familiar with him or his work which i find interesting(the ish ).

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you got any interviews with Chris Ofili that you find relevant? i am not familiar with him or his work which i find interesting(the ish ). </div></div>

if i remember correctly, ofili's work was part of an exhibition held in NY that scnadalized americans a few years back because of what were seen as profane liberties taken with religous images. along with ofili's virgin mary, there was a piece called &quot;p i s s christ&quot; consisting of a statue of christ on the cross immersed in a vat of urine.

i'll go see if i can find out more about ofili, i thought he was british of african heritage, but i may be misremembering.

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen African statues of art that push the boundaries for some people. </div></div>

i'd love to find out more from u about this - what african art or artist do u think has pushed boundaries, and for which people? </div></div>
Well if you do a google you will find nuff. I won't post some of the more should I say censored ones here but I can give you a few names - Chakaia Booker, Willie Cole, Glenn Ligon, Whitfield Lovell, Alison Saar, Lorna Simpson, and Kara Walker.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Some of the milder art for this G rated board:</span>
For instance would women find this art offensive. How do you interpret it.

http://www.theartsyn.com/.a/6a00d8345165dc69e201116886b049970c-800wi

http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/imgs/artists/mutu/wangechi_mutu_untitlednew11.jpg

http://blog.silive.com/entertainment_impact_arts/2009/02/large_2-12visuals.jpg

http://asuartmuseum.asu.edu/2002/saar/saar2.jpg

http://www.artlies.org/_issues/59/reviews/simblist.notes.jpg

http://www.friezeartfair.com/images/artists2008/Ligon.jpg

</div></div>
thanks, morfi, i checked the first link u posted (b4 u added all the other links) and i dunno, i must be jaded or something because though i found the image of the shoes shaped into what appears to be a black man with a rictus to be engaging, i wouldnt describe it necessarily as provocative or even boundary pushing. i've seen similar installations at the art gallery of ontario here in toronto, so i'm familiar with this aspect of what they call &quot;found art&quot;, or art made from the discarded material of our consumerist society.

i also checked out the other artists u listed, and have to say the most provocative of the lot, imo, are the lovell pieces.

[Morpheous]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

Zeen... the first one with the shoe look like a greedy demon but that's just me. It is all perception and interpretation.

You can google and find far more provocative material but I won't post links for those here.

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins



source
Tuesday, 1 December, 1998, 21:27 GMT
Chris Ofili profile

<span style="font-weight: bold">Chris Ofili's work examines issues of black culture, imagery and sexual stereotyping</span>

Chris Ofili has said of his painting: &quot;My project is not a p c project ... It allows you to laugh about issues that are potentially serious.&quot;

Ofili studied Fine Art at Chelsea School of Art, before completing a Masters degree in painting at the Royal College of Art.

In 1992, he was awarded a British Council travel scholarship to Zimbabwe - a visit which has had a lasting impact on his painting.

As a black Briton of Nigerian descent, that first visit to Africa encouraged him to reconsider his own identity and to develop a highly personal aesthetic through which he examines issues of black culture, imagery and sexual stereotyping.

His work draws on a wide range of cultural references and popular material, from 1970s comics to contemporary black music and pornographic magazines, elements which he combines with humour, subversion and an innovative approach to the use of painting as a medium.

<span style="font-weight: bold">During his stay in Africa, Ofili began to incorporate lumps of elephant dung into his canvases - both as compositional elements and as supports on which to display his paintings.

He says this is a way of - quite literally - incorporating Africa into his work.
</span>
Ancient cave paintings of Zimbabwe, with their images composed of decorative dots, have helped evolve Ofili's painting style which combines richly-coloured patterning with collage and three-dimensional elements.

Works such as Afrodizzia (1996) and Blossom (1997) are characteristic examples of his style.

[Magician]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

So di pikcha fulla shhh.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Works such as Afrodizzia (1996) </div></div>

[rufian]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

That helped and also to see him

I will digest on it and come back

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<span style="font-weight: bold">Chris Ofili</span>



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chris Ofili (born 1968) is a British painter noted for artworks referencing aspects of his Nigerian heritage. He is one of the Young British Artists. He is a Turner Prize winner and his work has been a source of controversy.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Biography</span>

Ofili was born in Manchester on the 10th October 1968.[1] He completed a foundation in art at Tameside College in Ashton-under-Lyne and studied art in London, at the Chelsea School of Art from 1988 to 1991 and at the Royal College of Art from 1991 to 1993. Ofili was established through exhibitions by Charles Saatchi at his gallery in North London and the travelling exhibition Sensation (1997) <span style="font-weight: bold">becoming recognised as one of the few British artists of African/Caribbean descent to breakthrough as a member of the Young British Artists.</span> Ofili has also had numerous solo shows since the early 1990s including the Serpentine Gallery. In 1998, Ofili won the Turner Prize, and in 2003 he was selected to represent Britain at the Venice Biennale of that year, where his work for the British Pavilion was done in collaboration with the architect David Adjaye.
********

In 1992 he won a scholarship which allowed him to travel to Zimbabwe. Ofili, who is of Nigerian descent, studied cave paintings there which had some effect on his style. T<span style="font-weight: bold">hough Ofili's detractors often state that he &quot;splatters&quot;[2] elephant dung (a substance which is used in a variety of rituals in Africa) on his pictures, this is inaccurate: he sometimes applies it directly to the canvas in the form of dried spherical lumps, and sometimes, in the same form, uses it as foot-like supports on which the paintings stand.
</span>
Ofili's painting also references blaxploitation films and gangsta rap often to question racial and sexual stereotypes in a humorous way. His work is often built up in layers of paint, resin, glitter, dung and other materials to create a collage.
***********

[edit] Controversy
<span style="font-weight: bold">
[edit] The Holy Virgin Mary and Mayor Giuliani</span>

One of his paintings, The Holy Virgin Mary, a depiction (portrait) of the Virgin Mary, was at issue in a lawsuit between the mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani, and the Brooklyn Museum of Art when it was exhibited there in 1999 as a part of the &quot;Sensation&quot; exhibit. <span style="font-weight: bold">The painting depicted a black African Mary surrounded by images from blaxploitation movies and close-ups of female genitalia cut from pornographic magazines, and elephant dung. These were formed into shapes reminiscent of the cherubim and seraphim commonly depicted in images of the Immaculate conception and the Assumption of Mary. Following the scandal surrounding this painting, Bernard Goldberg ranked Ofili #86 in 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America.</span> Red Grooms showed his support of the artist by purchasing one of Ofili's paintings in 1999, even after Giuliani famously exclaimed, “There’s nothing in the First Amendment that supports horrible and disgusting projects!”[5]

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That helped and also to see him

I will digest on it and come back </div></div>

good. i was looking for an interview of him speaking about his controversial painting but couldn't find anything.

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

Okay - here's a link to the Ofili painting, The Holy Virgin Mary, that so enraged Giuliani. I won't post the pic here because it's too large, i think, and also it can be seen as deeply offensive to some of our board members.

The Holy Virgin Mary, by Christopher Ofili

now that i think about it, in a way it is a flip side to the artwork that started this discussion. in this case a black african artist, using, coincidentally, a Mary image, offends Western cultural values with its depiction.


Here's a pic of one of Ofili's work, standing on lumps of elephant dung. i hear his orginal set of dung was smuggled into England from his trip to Africa, but that he started getting it from the zoo when his original stash ran out.

apart from the questionable pedestal and necklace pendant (yup, elephant dung) , i find this work quite beautiful - it's called &quot;No Woman No Cry&quot;:

[mountaingal]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix_di_PM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So di pikcha fulla shhh.?

</div></div>

[rufian]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

I agree, his work is very beautiful and well balanced, i love the way he plays with the literal, abstract and the senses.

[Magician]

Re: White Madonna with Twins

Correct mi if mi wrang, but it look seh di lady getting a rash from di neckliss.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>