Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sellouts

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fi di las' time, is de lack of a level playing field me a deal wid. A OH!!</span> </div></div>

Well explain this&lt; for whom the playing field is rolled and manicured and who is stacked against?

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

I clearly posted it in the thread just above your question. If you can't understand that, I can't make it ANY clearer for you.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I clearly posted it in the thread just above your question. If you can't understand that, I can't make it ANY clearer for you. </div></div>Post it again Tropicana!
In plain and simple language
So an uneducated man can read it.
I am kinda lost because I was sure my arguments were from another Thread, and I was right when I checked...so I am not too sure of anything right now, please re-post.

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

[johnnycakes]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listen, the situation in the Muslim world is NOT the same as the situation in North America, the UK or the Caribbean. Not even close. Malcolm X never said that race was not a factor. NEVER. He did become aware of the role of class. In places like Jamaica the dynamics of race and class (in socio-economic terms) play out in a way that has kept and continues to keep Blacks at the bottom. When one opens the Gleaner and looks at the social pages and in a majority Black country one is seeing White and near white faces, it's a problem. When in a majority Black country year after year Miss Jamaica is anything but African, something is wrong. When one opens the Gleaner and year after year in the most eligible bachelor feature very few of the faces are Black, something is SERIOUSLY worng If you can't see that, then you need to get a new pair of glasses. </div></div>


Tropicana,
I think you misunderstand me.
I thoroughly agree with everything you said above.

The point you make about the situation in Jamaica where the white minority gets top billing in the media is right on.
The racist history of the Western slave societies has carried down to today's post-slavery and post-colonial eras not so much because we are as OVERTLY racist as we once were but because the racist heritage, the effects of that racism has been largely perpetuated in our economic day-to-day lives and that is where the effects of racism are most felt.

I do not believe I said and I certainly do not believe that Malik El Shabazz stopped believing that racism was still as big a problem as it was before his conversion to Sunni Islam. It's just that he realized that all white people were not his enemies and that classism/economic inequality had more than racism as a cause.

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

Capiche piesan!

We are in agreement.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

And... isn't this a lively topic!

If this is all about the terms field and house &quot;slaves&quot; then we'd better define the terms as historical and nature and that the old use for the terms has changed to the present-day usage meaning a person who has taken up with the enemy while his people are suffering under that enemy.

Racism may not be as overt or legally sanctioned today but people of color are still suffering from racism: suffering inflicted by a white group on a black (or people of color) group.
If a person of color rises to a position of prominence in that racist society, while it shows than any black can do so , the fact remains that a disproportionate number of blacks remain economically/ socially deprived due to institutional racism and are doomed to second class citizenship for the foreseeable future.
For a member of an oppressed minority to happily join up and serve that racist institution is to serve as the modern-day version of a house slave.

This will remain true until institutional/capitalist (economic)/societal racism is largely eliminated from the society.

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

[Wahalla]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

More likely than not the feild slave would not have a reason for being at the house.....

Can I ask a couple dumb questions

Do you think the slave master was stupid ?

Do you think he would not have told his slaves what he would do to them if his house burnt ?

Do you think they would not have seen it happen before ?

If the slave masters house was burning who would the first suspect be ?

What would the slave mastrs reaction be to seeing his house burning ?????? a court of law ???? A quite sympatheic word.. or would he not grab the last person who back chatted him or he punished and kill them in the most grosteque manner ????

Gien that the last person who would have been punished was more likely than not to have been a domestic slave ?

What methodology would have evolved to ameolirate or deflect their murder ?

For children people take torture, for lovers, for parents ::::::<span style="font-weight: bold">for Race</span> ??????

You are calling these guys sell outs ????


Have any of you actually heard the scream of a victim being tortured ?

If you think for race: give me your first born for ten minutes let me practice some arcane of theose techniques on them that were practiced.... After wards tehn say for race... you would take the pain... (This would be a good reality show!!!!)

The auger through the knee from the back , castration followed by made to eat your testicles then the scrotum filled with salt, for a woman a boiled egg in the vagina, the cat on the back 10 you are unconsious, fifty you are dead, if you ... Dessalines had the scars of fifty and he became a driver....

Do you think what they under went was a paper cuts ?????

For retiscence they stuck Jamaicans on a self pwered thread mill or the iron mask, the ball and chain on the foot...

For burning a house a childs eye could be plucked out tortured in front of the suspect till confession, a brother, a gran motehr, a motehr..... and you guys are still on this trip about they said my hosue is on fire..

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hell yes they would have run to try and save it... </span>Being killed would have been a pleasure compared to what those damn coverso brought to us.... Do you even contempalte the horror or do you think it was like Roots ? roots was a parody of it.

So when they ran forward and said our house is burning.. I consider that a reasonable action to avoid the hot poker on their flesh....

I guess my fram of reference is different.... physical pain has to have been expereicned....torture has to be witnessed...



so when a any one disrespects my dammed ancestors I take exception.. If you chose to believe there was a reasonable choice.


I repeat Malcolm X was wrong... It was a rhetorical

Every one breaks, every one betrays.. Ask Winne Mandela....

[Tropicana]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I repeat Malcolm X was wrong... It was a rhetorical </div></div>

Says who? Says you? Disagree. It was and is a useful construct.


Well I know what I would have done. Let's face it, they cooked for these people, the mid-wives helped deliver their babies, they took care of their children, drove their horses and buggies. They had nuff opportunity to deal with them. Other than that.

[mountaingal]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so when a any one disrespects my dammed ancestors I take exception..

Every one breaks, every one betrays.. Ask Winne Mandela....
</div></div>
yes. so easy to make judgments from the relative safety of 200 years after slavery. your points are eloquently made and well taken. i've read Beloved by Toni Morrison, which so far is the only book that has really brought to life for me the soul-destroying institution that was slavery. much of what u posted recalls her novel.

i agree with Tanya, it's a damn shame that we as black people are being so contemptuous of our ancestors with this terrible labelling of house and field negro. nothing is so simple.

[Wahalla]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Well I know what I would have done.</span>

Yes that image of the feild slaves would laugh at massa burning house ..

What the hell would have happened when massa saw it ??? At that point there were two choices Kill and keep killing till you are killed.....

I can see you the attractive beautiful black princess at the birth of her sexual awaking... .. Massa puts you from the feild to the house.. Nurse maid, is preferable to the back break of the feild of the endless weeding, chopping, of rocks hitting you in the shin as they fly up from the how.. Free from those nasty black ants, free from the stink of the termites... The he would order you to the woodpile.. He is gotta sample the goods before he let the other slaves have a go.. But then sex with a slave is rationailsed as not a sin after all they are property.. Gotta love christian logic!

Would you have slit your wrist when he raped you ???? Would you have taken your life ? would you have killed your own child than have him humiliated ? Would you have submited to his attention when he told you he would brand your fatehr ???/

What run for the hills ????? Do you think the maroons were gentle racial warriors who fought for fellow Africans in some opratic flourish ????? Take up arms in a sea of struggles ? Join the marroons ????? Waht skill set would you bring, a feild slave ???? Yeah one I can think of you are an attractive female.... ??? A christian ???? Start a revolution? A sit down protest ala MLK ?????.. Call Al Sharpton ??? Lady you are dislocated by the trauma of not having a date.. and yet you know what you would do...I am a hard man compared to you but to my ancestors I consider my self a lily livered whimp...

Ever wonder why more people never ran to the hills ????? Why there was never more than 600 maroons ???? They protected tehir own by turning back most runnaways before the treaty ???? This idea that seems to be prelevant that it was simple to get away to the hills and survive ?? Have you any idea if the numbers that ran and then returned back within two weeks ?? Do you think the feild slaves were lazy why thye stuck around ? You think they lacked motivation ? why there was only one rebellion ebvey six months ? Cause then Malcolm is right ?? After Tacky rebellion was put down by our heroic marrons survivors tried to sneak back in.. They were then sold on...

Try farming without fertilisers in the cockpit country.. ( I did ), try fining a spring of fresh water try living without salt, try surviving without antibiotics without a knowlege that we take for granted.. the only analog is what I saw in the congo...

They whipped women for too much salt in their food ???? they kept them under fed.. they destroyed any attempts for them to farm on the queit.. they forced an alien god onto them... And for all of that our ancestors survived.. And you think think defining a sign of betryal to a sizable propotion of them as of these people a construct that condemns a your ancestors as betryaers ????

If Malcolm is right then Toussaint, Dessalines, Busha, Sharpe, should not be honoured..

interesting ly a thought occuers who were in the postion to aquire property post emancipation.. Ask your self who was educated ? who managed to buy land ??? Who became the successful peasants ? the feild slaves ?????

Ever wonder where that glorious saying &quot;coward keep soun bone&quot; means in a slave society..

then I have a white guy telling me that a Jamaican who attained success is a house n&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp;&amp; and tries to use this discussion to claim it was ok.. And no one seems to think thats an issue.. So many damn revolutionaries... It was wrong when malcolm said and it is wrong when it repeated..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The point you make about the situation in Jamaica where the white minority gets top billing in the media is right on. </div></div>What in respect of their activities does the white minority get so-called top billing in the Jamaican Media?
What are you agreeing to?
How many stories are there about White Jamaicans vis-à-vis other Jamaicans?
Have you personally observed this situation where whites get top billing in the Jamaican Media?

[Wahalla]

Re: Malcolm X: The House Negro vs The Field Negro (Plus Sell


I love living in where I live in Scotland.. The velvet Grampians, the changing colours of the seasons, the fact that Monymusk is the next village over….

Any way this week end I went to a Archolink..

http://www.archaeolink.co.uk/

It was a Freeday and it is a learning experience for the children…. We spent a few hours there.. the smoke filled cooking houses , the buildings for demonstrations, made out of thatch and wattle and daub are living experiences for me..

What does this have to do in this thread on Field and House slaves you are wondering???

Tuffy once made a comment that Caribbean slavery was not anymore cruel than any in the historical context and I agree with him…It was The cat o nine came out of the British Navy. And a man got 10 lashing for not bowing or pulling a forlock to an officer… Genocide was practiced effectively in Spain before it was implemented on the Tainos… The so called blond Prussians were Swedes who butchered the dark haired slavs predated the Taino genocide…. This ties in with the concept if they did it to their own... what would they do to people with diference...

When I was there I was thinking about this thread.. Why ??? We attended a lecture / demonstration on justice crime and punishment…

What has to be realise is that all the practices used in the Caribbean as per punishment and justice for slaves had been perfected on UK people. Trial by ordeal.. the slave who is accused of stealing a spoon had to plunge their hands into a pot of boiling water if they cried they were guilty … or hold a red hot poker and if it healed in 3 days they were innocent. The iron mask, the stocks, the justice of the Baliff or driver was already in place and used by in Europe…

But here is an interesting that that shook me the death of the Earl of Athol accused of trying to kill James I… and this was a noble of highest birth.. and this is what they did to him… Here is one version….

“Walter was tortured over a period of three days. On the first, he was put in a cart with a crane, hoisted up, dropped, and jerked violently to a stop to stretch his joints. He was then placed in a pillory and crowned with a red-hot iron crown bearing the inscription &quot;King of all Traitors&quot;. On the second day, he was bound to a hurdle and dragged along the main street of Edinburgh. (Some claim he was also blinded and tortured with red-hot iron pincers on this day, but Buchanan speaks only of the hurdle.) On the third, he was disembowelled while alive, his entrails burnt before his face, and his heart was torn out and burnt. Finally, his corpse was beheaded and quartered, and the quarters displayed around the realm.”

This was done to noblest what do you think was done to the lowest ?????

If they did this to a noble what would they do to slaves??? Do you think where they worked made a difference..???

Do you think it was in the interest of any slave to commiserated the burning of masters house or should they laugh at masters burning house ???? Were our ancestors closest masochists…. Were our ancestors stupid.. were house slaves clamouring to stay under servitude in 1834 ?

For the descendants of Caribbean slaves to ratify a difference on their ancestors based on where they worked is stupid, farcical… Our ancestor who from the conventional wisdom based on Christian precepts of the time as classified sub human..

Patwa in its crudest form the Lingua franca of the field slaves. The House slaves spoke “better” than the field.. and parents were discouraged so many of you from speaking Patwa.. what does that say of them ??? Ashamed of being associated with the wretched of the earth… or did they aspire to be house slaves and speak more like master…

Malcolm X was wrong…