Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging story

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-26-2009, 07:02 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">or maybe the residents just fear the dons & their foot-soldiers too much?

whatever the reasons, jamaica a mash up fast fast...

and who can save it locals don't?
<span style="font-weight: bold">certainly not the diaspora </span></div></div>

The catalyst for change will have to come from within, it certainly wont come from this group! </div></div> mChange from teh diaspora?? you want toi see silence??
Just look their way and use the word 'action'. They are pure talk. They left the country went away and enjoy the peace and safety of foreign lands, then they wexpected those who they lefyt behind to transform the country into a replica of wher they live. Then h they condemn them for not doing so. To them I wouls like to ask thi squestion.....
What have you done for the country , to expect it to be prserved to suit you??

**Jazz** · 05-26-2009, 09:48 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a rather ugly thread, and some of the nonsense that is spouted here.

All mi agguh seh is diss..is a bounding shame an disgrace what is gwaaning...<span style="font-weight: bold">Even in prisons tuh rah-co-lilly, there is a code of honour, ie if you are a child molester or baby killer, you are automatically marked to be hurt..retribution; because there are certain crimes that just won't be tolerated....so dem lack dem DUNG in solitary confinement. just fi proteck dem....and save them from other criminals</span>

THAT IS COMING FROM PRISONERS. MOST OF WHOM ARE CONVICTED AND GUILTY CRIMINALS..

Fram some of what mi manage fi read yahsoh, here we show no gumption, we have become so base, baser than hard core criminals,<span style="font-weight: bold"> that we can tolerate the rape and murder of our young children,</span> not to mention our adults....we read of parents either setting up their girls to be raped for money or men just raping young girls and boys because they are helpless and defenseless, and they know they will not be apprehended, much less convicted..

How can crowbaits like those be allowed to walk the face of the land???? ..How????

The government of Jamaica which as a member of the UN is expected to and MUST subscribe to and ABIDE BY the UN Charter when it comes on to the rights of children; or lose it's membership ...and has obviously failed despicably and miserably in keeping with such Charter..

Never before have we heard of such wantonness in our society, wantonness and slackness which not ongle the pyaah pyaah government fail to control, but <span style="font-weight: bold">seems</span> to uphold..

<span style="font-style: italic">The CRC has been ratified by over 190 countries since it was adopted unanimously by the United Nations General Assembly in November 1989. Ratification commits countries to a code of binding obligations towards their children. Thanks to the CRC, child rights are now at the cutting edge of the global struggle for human rights, to be ensured by adult society as a matter of legal obligation, moral imperative and development priority. In the years since the CRC was adopted, the world has seen dramatic gains for children.</span>

Don't forget to call your Parliamentarians....yeah right, don't hold your breath.. </div></div>

Thank You Britisha for verbalizing what I was feeling while reading through some of the responses here. What kind of degenerate society have we bred that animals like these can take part in an act of savagery such as this and others have knowledge of it and yet there is no retribution???

How can we even open our mouths to day that she shoulda did know this would happen to her? Soon everyone will abandon these neighborhoods to the debauchery and lawlessness of the so called "dons" - becasue no one is willing to risk their lives uselessly... and then who will advocate for the children?

None of these boys coming up in our society have any respect for women - they treat them like pieces of flesh... we see that evidenced in the dancehalls wid all dem new dances that they have now... they get wilder and more sexual with each gyration and more outrageous...

I saw a video today and I pray that it was not true - but the title of the video was "girl killed at dutty Friday" or supm to that effeck.... and apprently de bway tek ah running leap and lauch himself at her while she is laying on her back and it is supposed that she broke her neck... it was sickening to watch and if mi did know wat it was I would nevva watch it - but thsi si what pass for dancing now??? dis daggering an wat not - and some gwine mad at mi fe refer to some of our fellow Jamaicans as mindless, violent, savages - but that is what they are...

and I truly weep for the children and the next generation coming up - I realy don't know what is to become of our little island but it will require drastic measures before we see any real change - who will be brave enough to take those drastic measures?

and No I have no answers either - my heart just weeps when i hear about these atrocities being visited on our children and I think of the pain of the life they have to endure...

I love Jamaica but I cannot make excuses for her.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-26-2009, 11:03 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

Funny thing is that this is not the first time this has happened. It happened to me once in situation like she was in,and another time a similar situation came about.
Although that time it was not in a garrison area.
but is was done by the politicians, or on the order of the local politician.
Any person who ever take on a major charitable project in Jamaica,unless they are prepared to be aligned to a political party, will eventually come to end similar to what happened to her. This is not something new.
It is a part of the strategy that keeps Jamaicans in the state of fear to maintain the status quo.
father Gregory use to live in that area.
He now lives far removed from there.
It was a series of incidences that encouraged him to relocate.
It is not just now ,nor is it just the foreigners, that have gone in the ghettos and tried to make some sort of change.

And as usual people who never experience wars are always the first ones to try so-called cowards. They are so ready to condemn the people as cowards.
Incidentally at least one of the Olympic gold medalists lived in the area up to the point when they won the medal. The place is not full or even have a majority of cowards.
One have be be really brave to see what happens to their neighbors and return to sleep the rat nights.
I certainly would not.

**britisha** · 05-26-2009, 11:43 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A_lil_Jazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thank You Britisha for verbalizing what I was feeling while reading through some of the responses here. What kind of degenerate society have we bred that animals like these can take part in an act of savagery such as this and others have knowledge of it and yet there is no retribution???</div></div>

Exactly, Jazz, the crime is done, BUT others have knowledge and do nothing about it..I want to tell you something, this is hitting closer to home, than even I had thought.

Just hearing that a friend of mine daughter had a child at a very young age...when mi hear di story, I was saying that the girl was wukliss and engaging in sex at such an early age...ongle fi hear seh, a Don innah di neighbourhood rape di picknie and impregnate har, and di modda didn't even call di police, they were afriad of getting killed... Now di fadda start to jrink... Oddly, enuff, I was discussing their thread with a relative of the girl who out of the blue told me the story...I was shocked.. Mi cannot seh what is really going thru mi mind...**sigh*** <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

How can we even open our mouths to day that she shoulda did know this would happen to her? Soon everyone will abandon these neighborhoods to the debauchery and lawlessness of the so called "dons" - becasue no one is willing to risk their lives uselessly... and then who will advocate for the children?</div></div>

When they moved to that area it was a rather decent place to live, but it has deteriorated and they refused to move, although they own a house in a much better area, but they rent it...for a long time I was begging them to move, and they didn't...that is the price they paid...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

None of these boys coming up in our society have any respect for women - they treat them like pieces of flesh... we see that evidenced in the dancehalls wid all dem new dances that they have now... they get wilder and more sexual with each gyration and more outrageous...

I saw a video today and I pray that it was not true - but the title of the video was "girl killed at dutty Friday" or supm to that effeck.... and apprently de bway tek ah running leap and lauch himself at her while she is laying on her back and it is supposed that she broke her neck... it was sickening to watch and if mi did know wat it was I would nevva watch it - but thsi si what pass for dancing now??? dis daggering an wat not - and some gwine mad at mi fe refer to some of our fellow Jamaicans as mindless, violent, savages - but that is what they are...</div></div>Someone had posted a video here of a visitor who was assaulted during one of these daggering episode, and the crowd stood by laughing...I found it so repulsive, I could only sit in here and shake my head in shame...the government should be blamed for all this vulgarity, for the simple reason that they allow it.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and I truly weep for the children and the next generation coming up - I realy don't know what is to become of our little island but it will require drastic measures before we see any real change - who will be brave enough to take those drastic measures?</div></div>
that is the question, who will be brave enough...there is nothing much that we can stay abroad and do. the pyah pyah government seem to be shackled by what is going on. I heard that many of the criminals have secret for some of them...dem spread dem bed haawd, and now the entire nation is suffering. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

and No I have no answers either - my heart just weeps when i hear about these atrocities being visited on our children and I think of the pain of the life they have to endure...

I love Jamaica but I cannot make excuses for her. </div></div>

Words fail me. I rack my poor brain night and day trying to think of a solution to even help in the smallest of ways...is it lack of education? Is it just downright hate and bitterness? Is it just plain lawlessness and disregard for society as a whole? Is it ignorance? Is it poverty? Are we raising our children wrongly?

What is the cause?

Prayer doesn't seem to be working either.

We have to come together someway somehow and petition the government to bring an end to the lawlessness and slackness that has taken over our country, where as Dr. Dudd said, the people live in prisons behind burglar bars..

Enuff is enuff,

As I mentioned earlier, we need new government; and a new JCF...the police have failed us as well. I heard that in some areas they lock the police stations for the night, and nothing can bring them out til daybreak...dem fraid tuh.

they should send that man back to England and get someone else to do the job.

**big sigh**

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-27-2009, 02:15 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<span style="font-size: 11pt">I don't see the sort of policing that the country can afford doing anything than a temporary lull,during their presence. Thu sis because even if they remove every single Don.s and their crew, and recover every single firearms,the situation will return in short order. the reality is abandoned and repressed people does not trust any authority to support them. So as soon as the authority's presence is removed, they will simply return to the old system of penmanship complete with new soldiers,a d weapons.the only way to neutralize the effect of the gun, is by allowing people having them legally. It is not enough to have an armed police force. Not even them are secured under the present circumstances. They are only safe in <span style="font-weight: bold">numbers</span> The same with the general population. They use to be safe in numbers, before the goons had guns.

they will be return to that level of safety if the are sen by the goons as more likely to have a legal gun that not.
i grew up on what may be called an exclusive area. but what made it exclusive?
It was not the level of wealth,because i am sure there warm areas that had wealthy residents.
I was not the race, although the majority I mean 90% of the residents were not black. Why it was exclusive again?? because it was sen ans a safe neighborhood. It was not safe because we had lots of police patrols. We rarely had one.It was not safe because had burglar bars, or even guards. Most homes had none of either. Other than the Diplomatic residences that had theirs. The reason why we were safe was because of the deterrent factor. The criminals had an idea that there were sufficient valuables there,money and most of all weapons. They love ti kill people for their weapons. Yet they never attempted any of those commonly occured acts. The reason was that they thought it was less likely to be a successful project. EWyy is it so hard for theauthorities to see the simple logic. I know why. It is not that they don't see it. It is because they are forbidden to allow blacks to protect themselves as readily as other races. This sis a part of the directives given down from our overseers, from abroad. They want Jamaica to be a weak and easily recolonized outpost.
Now the IDB is funding exclusive family business. strange, that they should do that., while they are promoting corporations in developed countries, the are promoting family owned business in the third world.
well let's see the out come, when the foreign exchange market put them in th eposition it did the matalons i hope they don't expect the government to guarantee these loans. </span>

**rudemonk** · 05-27-2009, 04:58 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

I think that is patently ridiculous. I mean I have seen some seriously stretchy logic before, and there is some stuff in this thread that is way the hell out there, but the facts are that guns are not any kind of viable solution to social ills, nor have I ever seen or read in any report on effective gang/crime suppression wherein it is suggested that more guns in the hands of citizens presents any kind of lasting solution or even any protection. It seems like much is being made of 'legal' guns and 'illegal' guns, a point of distinction relevant mostly to the law after the fact, and not to the street. The problem is one stemming from the exercise of power and control of the means of securing wealth. At best, arming people, if they even want that burden because it is a burden, will provide a temporary stop gap until the criminal elements make it too costly for the average citizen to keep up. Average citizens are not organized into the kind of paramilitary group that would be needed to mount an effective deterrence. The average person is not going to have the streak of evil necessary to match criminal intent. If that were the case there would be no intimidation. Look at what is happening in Mexico, for an example. The army and the drug cartels are at war. Both factions are well armed, one is even a state. The cartels simply ante'd up, because they are not going to roll over and give up power and wealth.

What is needed first and foremost is a reaffirmation of self worth in the individual which leads to the choosing of a more just path, a knowledge of and practical application of those inherent and human truths which we all hold self evident, and opportunity to engage these truths in meaningful pursuits, thus stalling and preventing people from choosing negative, cyclical paths.

You either believe in people or you don't.

If no don had guns you don't think they would still exercise their reign of terror? A gun is simply a tool, at most the convenient means to maintain power. Terrorism to maintain control is a psychological tactic predicated on the illusion or reality of power. To suggest the problem is simply one of an imbalance in weaponry, I mean I don't know what to say. It's just a woefully inadequate observation if not ignorant.

There will always be a criminal element and those who will prey on others and exercise their power and influence to oppress others, guns or no...until the root causes which allow the individual's psychological deterioration into criminality, and people to accept living with this process as a norm, are addressed, getting more guns into the hands of people will only feed into the causes of criminality, as criminal minds will simply escalate the issue to meet the new challenge...a don is not going to throw his hands up in the air because the people he seeks to exert power over might be armed with a legal gun. Waaaaa...waaaaaa...waaaaaa, they have guns now so I guess we should all just retire now and become law abiding productive citizens?

The only way to combat this kind of evil is to instill in people a sense of self worth and value from childhood, fortify families, education, self sufficiency and sustainability, community, develop empathy to one's fellow man and eradicate the myopic view of self vs. the other, which means what drives the competition for access to resources must be addressed and alternate pathways other than criminal pursuit has to be developed.

Look at the way gangs are combatted and their members rehabilitated, at what is successful in breaking their grip of terror in the neighborhoods. It's not rocket science, and communities under the rule of gangs are not in a vacuum. NOBODY who has successfully managed to break the grip of gangs would even think to suggest introducing more guns... like, let's give each of these gangs and all the people in the neighborhood some 16s, and let's get some guns to all their rival gangs and factions so they will be deterred lol, that as a viable solution, or arming neighborhoods? You'd be laughed to scorn, or maybe embraced by the NRA. The first step is to remove the tools of violence, next step is to begin to work on the root causes of why people seek to empower themselves through gangs and all the various permutations associated. Generally, the existence of gangs is fueled first by societal issues with criminal overtones. It is a cyclical phenomena. A slight tangent, but the example I think proves poignant.

No real solution to such a multi-faceted problem is simple.

I mean look at what you are saying. Well armed, organized police are still not safe...

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-27-2009, 10:16 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<span style="font-size: 11pt"> As usual we have the use of behavior of criminal gangs to compare the behavior of the general population of Jamaica.

this is what is referred to as culture shock. when we use the knowledge of one culture to apply to another and experience unexpected result.
Well you tell me this what percentage of those criminal population have in their possession 28 inch machete?

Well Sir Monk 99% of Jamaicans have at least one at how
me.And they are sharpened too. .
Now this has always been a part of the culture. .
Now tell me how many authorities in those places you are referring to wouldn't oppose the wholesale low tech arming of the country without warning of wanton massacre,by people who are overpowered by the machete?

Guess what??......
very few incidences in which machetes are used in an attack. Jamaicans are not Americans.
They do not easily become overcome by the possession of weapons.
They are responsible enough to use them appropriately. All they need is the relevant training.
And no, they don't need to be part of any paramilitary organization to act in support of their neighbors.
They do it every year at hurricane season.
And yes they do it risking their lives in many cases.
Legally acquired Guns will not change them into marauding murderers And one more thing... If dons did not have the guns and their posse, they could not terrorize Jamaicans.
It is Jamaican youy are talikng about not Americans that are socialized under, "the nail that stickls up will be the one pounded down," philosophy. Mya be u you don't know this little known strategy . But in the ghetto, when the are ready to depose a don, It is a preteen trusted by the Don, they arm and send to do it. It is not that they can't rep[lkace him. theysimply cannot replace the system of Don manship.
</span>

**jah_yout** · 05-27-2009, 10:49 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

seems another prophecy of marcus garvey come to pass:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica will have to learn the hard way..She can't break her own people and get away from it. It will come back to her; you can't do that type of inequity and get away from it.</div></div>

i.m.o. he was talking about the government of jamaica was never really for the majority jamaican people but for the brown, white & yellow elites and still is...

it had to catch up to us...poverty is one thing, but poverty added to self-hate is what has bred the present generation of characters in jamaica;
i don't believe these 'leader' guys have ever had the best interest of the jamaican people at heart...
marcus garvey as national hero is lip service & hypocrisy to fool the population into ignoring his real teachings;

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-27-2009, 11:20 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seems another prophecy of marcus garvey come to pass:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica will have to learn the hard way..She can't break her own people and get away from it. It will come back to her; you can't do that type of inequity and get away from it.</div></div>

i.m.o. he was talking about the government of jamaica was never really for the majority jamaican people but for the brown, white & yellow elites and still is...

it had to catch up to us...poverty is one thing, but poverty added to self-hate is what has bred the present generation of characters in jamaica;
i don't believe these 'leader' guys have ever had the best interest of the jamaican people at heart...
marcus garvey as national hero is lip service & hypocrisy to fool the population into ignoring his real teachings;

</div></div> The governments, all of them never represent the majority, but the middle clas to their detriment shortsightedly side with them against themselves and the whole society on a whole eventually.

**rudemonk** · 05-27-2009, 01:51 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

Doc, if I may be so bold, but you are really and consistently conflating and introducing points which people never stated.

no one has compared the bevaviour of criminal gangs to the behaviour of the general population of Jamaica. In fact the point has been repeatedly made that they are generally opposite in character, that is why there is a big problem. Nobody wishes to live in a state of siege or detente. The Dons and criminals wish to exercise power and gain wealth by the oppression of others. The system feeds from the bottom. It is a social issue overlapped with criminal issues.

what you are failing to understand is that it is not the tools of oppression, it is the how and why of oppression. Arming citizens with guns is not a viable, long term solution, at best it will be a stop gap quickly circumvented. The point of looking at Mexico.

All successful attempts to break the grip of gangs- be they in Sicily, where the word 'Don' comes from and the culture perfected, the UK, New Zealand, South Africa, Jamaica, etc. are based on this understanding that the underlying social issues which cause this system to be adopted and tolerated and fed must be addressed in some combination with law enforcement. NOT ON THE UNDERSTANDING that there is an IMBALANCE of weaponry between normal citizens and criminals. You think gangs and donmanship can only exist through the support of them having guns you have no concept of history sir. All gangs need is fear. You assume fear to be a deterrent to everyone equally, and that is not the case.

So your response is a shifting goal post and hardly bears a reply, since you seem to be talking with yourself about your own posts and introducing arguments for people which they never advanced. Nobody has, as far as I have ever read or heard, suggested the average citizens are going to run amok with weapons. As you note, the average citizen is already fairly well appointed.

Please reply to the points.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 11pt">
And yes they do it risking their lives in many cases.
</span> </div></div>

Ah, is that courage then? Because a few posts ago you filled the thread with some wildly out there posts about that word, in fact, to me, it seemed you were rather dismissive of the word being able to be applied to the concept which you now introduce...

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-27-2009, 02:32 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, if I may be so bold, but you are really and consistently conflating and introducing points which people never stated.

no one has compared the bevaviour of criminal gangs to the behaviour of the general population of Jamaica. In fact the point has been repeatedly made that they are generally opposite in character, that is why there is a big problem. Nobody wishes to live in a state of siege or detente. The Dons and criminals wish to exercise power and gain wealth by the oppression of others. The system feeds from the bottom. It is a social issue overlapped with criminal issues.

what you are failing to understand is that it is not the tools of oppression, it is the how and why of oppression. Arming citizens with guns is not a viable, long term solution, at best it will be a stop gap quickly circumvented. The point of looking at Mexico.

All successful attempts to break the grip of gangs- be they in Sicily, where the word 'Don' comes from and the culture perfected, the UK, New Zealand, South Africa, Jamaica, etc. are based on this understanding that the underlying social issues which cause this system to be adopted and tolerated and fed must be addressed in some combination with law enforcement. NOT ON THE UNDERSTANDING that there is an IMBALANCE of weaponry between normal citizens and criminals. You think gangs and donmanship can only exist through the support of them having guns you have no concept of history sir. All gangs need is fear. You assume fear to be a deterrent to everyone equally, and that is not the case.

So your response is a shifting goal post and hardly bears a reply, since you seem to be talking with yourself about your own posts and introducing arguments for people which they never advanced. Nobody has, as far as I have ever read or heard, suggested the average citizens are going to run amok with weapons. As you note, the average citizen is already fairly well appointed.

Please reply to the points.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 11pt">
And yes they do it risking their lives in many cases.
</span> </div></div>

Ah, is that courage then? Because a few posts ago you filled the thread with some wildly out there posts about that word, in fact, to me, it seemed you were rather dismissive of the word being able to be applied to the concept which you now introduce... </div></div>Jamaica has a security problem and that is what we can act agasinst. Not gamnngs. Only in poor blasck

**rudemonk** · 05-27-2009, 03:38 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

try again, please.

**barosa** · 05-27-2009, 03:49 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that is patently ridiculous. I mean I have seen some seriously stretchy logic before, and there is some stuff in this thread that is way the hell out there, but the facts are that guns are not any kind of viable solution to social ills, nor have I ever seen or read in any report on effective gang/crime suppression wherein it is suggested that more guns in the hands of citizens presents any kind of lasting solution or even any protection. It seems like much is being made of 'legal' guns and 'illegal' guns, a point of distinction relevant mostly to the law after the fact, and not to the street. The problem is one stemming from the exercise of power and control of the means of securing wealth. At best, arming people, if they even want that burden because it is a burden, will provide a temporary stop gap until the criminal elements make it too costly for the average citizen to keep up. Average citizens are not organized into the kind of paramilitary group that would be needed to mount an effective deterrence. The average person is not going to have the streak of evil necessary to match criminal intent. If that were the case there would be no intimidation. Look at what is happening in Mexico, for an example. The army and the drug cartels are at war. Both factions are well armed, one is even a state. The cartels simply ante'd up, because they are not going to roll over and give up power and wealth.

What is needed first and foremost is a reaffirmation of self worth in the individual which leads to the choosing of a more just path, a knowledge of and practical application of those inherent and human truths which we all hold self evident, and opportunity to engage these truths in meaningful pursuits, thus stalling and preventing people from choosing negative, cyclical paths.

You either believe in people or you don't.

If no don had guns you don't think they would still exercise their reign of terror? A gun is simply a tool, at most the convenient means to maintain power. Terrorism to maintain control is a psychological tactic predicated on the illusion or reality of power. To suggest the problem is simply one of an imbalance in weaponry, I mean I don't know what to say. It's just a woefully inadequate observation if not ignorant.

There will always be a criminal element and those who will prey on others and exercise their power and influence to oppress others, guns or no...until the root causes which allow the individual's psychological deterioration into criminality, and people to accept living with this process as a norm, are addressed, getting more guns into the hands of people will only feed into the causes of criminality, as criminal minds will simply escalate the issue to meet the new challenge...a don is not going to throw his hands up in the air because the people he seeks to exert power over might be armed with a legal gun. Waaaaa...waaaaaa...waaaaaa, they have guns now so I guess we should all just retire now and become law abiding productive citizens?

The only way to combat this kind of evil is to instill in people a sense of self worth and value from childhood, fortify families, education, self sufficiency and sustainability, community, develop empathy to one's fellow man and eradicate the myopic view of self vs. the other, which means what drives the competition for access to resources must be addressed and alternate pathways other than criminal pursuit has to be developed.

Look at the way gangs are combatted and their members rehabilitated, at what is successful in breaking their grip of terror in the neighborhoods. It's not rocket science, and communities under the rule of gangs are not in a vacuum. NOBODY who has successfully managed to break the grip of gangs would even think to suggest introducing more guns... like, let's give each of these gangs and all the people in the neighborhood some 16s, and let's get some guns to all their rival gangs and factions so they will be deterred lol, that as a viable solution, or arming neighborhoods? You'd be laughed to scorn, or maybe embraced by the NRA. The first step is to remove the tools of violence, next step is to begin to work on the root causes of why people seek to empower themselves through gangs and all the various permutations associated. Generally, the existence of gangs is fueled first by societal issues with criminal overtones. It is a cyclical phenomena. A slight tangent, but the example I think proves poignant.

No real solution to such a multi-faceted problem is simple.

I mean look at what you are saying. Well armed, organized police are still not safe... </div></div>
Monk, thanks for adding your voice to the mostly one-sided view that arming the Jamaican "black" people will bring about the required balance or safety for the Jamaican population... What kind of security would that be, to have the Dons and the gangs well armed as they are already to be confronted by our citizens, however well armed they may be? ~ <span style="font-weight: bold">What role would be left for the Govt whose #1 responsibility is to protect the lives of it's citizens regardless of race and background...</span> What would that say about us?.... A nation becomming a hodge podge of Vigilante justice all over?. ~ The NRA would be on the sidelines cheering us on, while selling all the weapons they can to both sides... It doesn't make any sense... All I know, Jamaica has to find a solution to the current problem which wont be simple, but the sooner, the better...
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It's not where you are from that matters.
it's where you are going...

**gourmet** · 05-27-2009, 04:18 PM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What role would be left for the Govt whose #1 responsibility is to protect the lives of it's citizens regardless of race and background </div></div>
That is what a government SHOULD do, but do you really think that that is the priority of the jamaican government?

**barosa** · 05-28-2009, 02:11 AM

Re: Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging sto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What role would be left for the Govt whose #1 responsibility is to protect the lives of it's citizens regardless of race and background </div></div>
That is what a government SHOULD do, but do you really think that that is the priority of the jamaican government? </div></div>
gourmet, I didn't know it would be such a difficult question to answer. I was hoping that someone would answer it for me... In answering it, I'll have to regretfully say, that it's definetely not their PRIORITY at the moment, although IT IS their #1 responsibility... The <span style="font-weight: bold">citizen's right of safety and protection</span> has been abandoned for the last 18 years by the previous administrations, now passed on to the current one which seems <span style="font-weight: bold">powerless</span> to do anything about it...
_________________________________

It's not where you are from that matters,
it's where you are going...

Philanthropist gives up on Jamaica-very discouraging story

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